Storm Raven available to other chapters!?

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Which leads me to wonder: If this is actually what the rumors have been hinting at, why is it even noteworthy that other marines will be "getting the Stormraven" in Apocalypse? Shouldn't our response be, "Of course other marine players can field it in Apoc games --It's Apocalypse after all!" I mean, if that's the case, the rumors might as well have said, "Everyone will be getting access to the SR" Since I suppose even an Ork player could field a SR wing in Apoc if they wanted. (In fact, that model might look more at home in an ork army anyway. :))

 

This is exactly what got me thinking about the Apoc rules in the first place...

[Brother Xeones]

The Stormraven is not only smaller than the Thunderhawk but, thanks to its array of vectored thrusters, is also considerably more agile. This, combined with the precise skill and incredible reaction time of its Space Marine crew, allows it to jink effortlessly through the interceptor fire and manoeuvre at full speed through cluttered spires of a hive city. As a result, the Blood Angels employ Stormravens as air support craft in environs where it would be foolish or impractical for a Thunderhawk to attempt the same role. Other Chapters might take a different tack altoghether, using Drop Pods or Land Raiders to achieve the same strategic goals, but the Blood Angels refuse to cede their mastery of the heavens to any foe, even for a moment.

 

This bit here is saying other Chapters don't use the Stormraven, not hinting that they do.

 

To be fair, seems that all you can really prove grammatically from that quote is that there are some other chapters that don't used them, but you can't really prove that no other chapter uses them. This is the sort of ambiguity that GW often employs in fluff so that they can do whatever they feel like later on. Just like the LRC IMO.

[Plague Angel]

The Stormraven is not only smaller than the Thunderhawk but, thanks to its array of vectored thrusters, is also considerably more agile. This, combined with the precise skill and incredible reaction time of its Space Marine crew, allows it to jink effortlessly through the interceptor fire and manoeuvre at full speed through cluttered spires of a hive city. As a result, the Blood Angels employ Stormravens as air support craft in environs where it would be foolish or impractical for a Thunderhawk to attempt the same role. Other Chapters might take a different tack altoghether, using Drop Pods or Land Raiders to achieve the same strategic goals, but the Blood Angels refuse to cede their mastery of the heavens to any foe, even for a moment.

 

This bit here is saying other Chapters don't use the Stormraven, not hinting that they do.

 

To be fair, seems that all you can really prove grammatically from that quote is that there are some other chapters that don't used them, but you can't really prove that no other chapter uses them. This is the sort of ambiguity that GW often employs in fluff so that they can do whatever they feel like later on. Just like the LRC IMO.

 

I agree it's ambiguous enough to leave a loop-hole, especially the parts I didn't quote. This particular bit though, isn't hinting "Other Chapters use the Stormraven." It's saying "Blood Angels use the Stormraven even though other Chapters use Drop Pods instead." Though yes, nothing forbids the implicit "And yet a third group of Chapters use the Stormraven like the Blood Angels." But that's what's implicitly unsaid in the subtext, not what's explicitly there in the surface text. I'm just saying that the words "other Chapters" used here in this paragraph are pointing away from the Stormraven and not towards it; there's still enough leeway in the article as a whole that other Chapters could use it, however.

[Brother Xeones]

I agree it's ambiguous enough to leave a loop-hole, especially the parts I didn't quote. This particular bit though, isn't hinting "Other Chapters use the Stormraven." It's saying "Blood Angels use the Stormraven even though other Chapters use Drop Pods instead." Though yes, nothing forbids the implicit "And yet a third group of Chapters use the Stormraven like the Blood Angels." But that's what's implicitly unsaid in the subtext, not what's explicitly there in the surface text. I'm just saying that the words "other Chapters" used here in this paragraph are pointing away from the Stormraven and not towards it; there's still enough leeway in the article as a whole that other Chapters could use it, however.

Yeah, I agree.

[Midnightmare]

£41? By hook or by crook GW will make it available to other chapters :P

[Plague Angel]

£41? By hook or by crook GW will make it available to other chapters :P

 

I don't buy it. Space Marines don't get Valkyries, Dark Eldar don't get Avatars.

 

Maybe I'm naive, but I view every army with its own codex as a distinct army, even if they're on the same side as another army in the fiction. I don't think Codex: Space Marines or Codex: Dark Angels are any more likely to get the Stormraven than Codex: Chaos Space Marines. Different codex, different army, deal with it.

 

Of course, if GW itself disagrees with me, than my opinion is worth less than my painting skills.

[Brother Weasel]

£41? By hook or by crook GW will make it available to other chapters :ph34r:

 

I don't buy it. Space Marines don't get Valkyries, Dark Eldar don't get Avatars.

 

Maybe I'm naive, but I view every army with its own codex as a distinct army, even if they're on the same side as another army in the fiction. I don't think Codex: Space Marines or Codex: Dark Angels are any more likely to get the Stormraven than Codex: Chaos Space Marines. Different codex, different army, deal with it.

 

Of course, if GW itself disagrees with me, than my opinion is worth less than my painting skills.

 

some things go, some don't. to get down to it, you see them as diffrent armies, most nid players see all sm as the same and get pissed that "imperials" get more stuff...

 

I don't want all the marines to be the same, but if GW wants to add somethign else from one to another, i't sno biggie

[Plague Angel]

£41? By hook or by crook GW will make it available to other chapters :(

 

I don't buy it. Space Marines don't get Valkyries, Dark Eldar don't get Avatars.

 

Maybe I'm naive, but I view every army with its own codex as a distinct army, even if they're on the same side as another army in the fiction. I don't think Codex: Space Marines or Codex: Dark Angels are any more likely to get the Stormraven than Codex: Chaos Space Marines. Different codex, different army, deal with it.

 

Of course, if GW itself disagrees with me, than my opinion is worth less than my painting skills.

 

some things go, some don't. to get down to it, you see them as diffrent armies, most nid players see all sm as the same and get pissed that "imperials" get more stuff...

 

I don't want all the marines to be the same, but if GW wants to add somethign else from one to another, i't sno biggie

 

Yeah... I once got in an argument with a friend. He said Warhammer Fantasy was much more interesting than Warhammer 40,000 because there were more armies to choose from. I pointed out that Warhammer has 15 armies and 40k had 16. Annoyed, he asked me to name them, then flew into a rage when I mentioned the Dark Angels.

[BrotherHostower]

GW has been known to shoot itself... repeatedly... in the butt, which is what they'd be doing if they don't open it up to all Space Marine chapters. If any Templar players could listen to the crying and hopes that you would deny a fine vehicle to your bother marines, I think each of them would play a tiny little fiddle for you, considering the Land Raider Crusader, y'know, THEIR special tank was whored to all chapters without any restrictions after 3rd ed (where it was originally anyone could take it as a 0-1 choice). How about us Dark Angel players who have to suffer through every chapter and its mother being able to field all terminator armies? Something that was our thing only, again, since after 3rd edition. I think you'll find us all with no tears for the stormraven going open to all.

 

Besides, all griping aside, do you REALLY think Matt Ward would let his precious Ultramarines not be able to field such an obviously dead'ard vehicle? Y'know, the guy who said you and the space wolves are too mutated and the dark angels and black templars too stupid to know they really want to be Ultramarines?

 

And, as to Rules being published in White Dwarf, you guys all should remember last edition, when they said, "y'know, we put too many rules in WD, we're going to stop doing that because it's too confusing." Well, when they put the rules for the nightspinner in WD, Jervis (or the editor, I'll need to re-look at my copy) said, "Man, putting rules in white dwarf is unprecidented, and I'm so glad we can do it now!" ...

[Plague Angel]

How about us Dark Angel players who have to suffer through every chapter and its mother being able to field all terminator armies? Something that was our thing only, again, since after 3rd edition.

 

...What?

 

Besides, all griping aside, do you REALLY think Matt Ward would let his precious Ultramarines not be able to field such an obviously dead'ard vehicle? Y'know, the guy who said you and the space wolves are too mutated and the dark angels and black templars too stupid to know they really want to be Ultramarines?

 

Oh, come on, get over it. He was writing hyperbole about the codex-viewpoint. Problematic? Yes. But there wasn't any Ultra fanboyism in the Blood Angels dex. If anything, it had the same sily fan:cussy over the BA. That is how codices work. They will always go hyperbolic about the armies they are about. The problem with C:SM isn't its hyperbole or insulting of non-Codex chapters — I expect it and even welcome it — the problem with it is that it denigrates the chapters it is supposedly supposed to be about, like the Salamanders or Iron Hands. You play Dark Angels, so what do you care? Because a different codex implied it's better than your own, like every codex inevitably does? Cry some more.

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

(Engage sad sounding violins)

Haiku:

Poor, poor Vanilla

Lacks many unique units

Why must it be so?

(End sad sounding violins)

 

If you remember, there was no mention of the Stormraven until this codex. It's not exactly a BA only unit, especially if you think about it. Sanguinary Priests, Baal Predators, Honor Guard, Sanguinary Guard(though new, it is very BAey), Furiosos, and Death Company are all very Blood Angel themed. The Stormraven is a plane. It makes sense that other chapters would use it.

[shatter]

How about us Dark Angel players who have to suffer through every chapter and its mother being able to field all terminator armies? Something that was our thing only, again, since after 3rd edition.

 

...What?

 

Besides, all griping aside, do you REALLY think Matt Ward would let his precious Ultramarines not be able to field such an obviously dead'ard vehicle? Y'know, the guy who said you and the space wolves are too mutated and the dark angels and black templars too stupid to know they really want to be Ultramarines?

 

Oh, come on, get over it. He was writing hyperbole about the codex-viewpoint. Problematic? Yes. But there wasn't any Ultra fanboyism in the Blood Angels dex. If anything, it had the same sily fan:cussy over the BA. That is how codices work. They will always go hyperbolic about the armies they are about. The problem with C:SM isn't its hyperbole or insulting of non-Codex chapters — I expect it and even welcome it — the problem with it is that it denigrates the chapters it is supposedly supposed to be about, like the Salamanders or Iron Hands. You play Dark Angels, so what do you care? Because a different codex implied it's better than your own, like every codex inevitably does? Cry some more.

 

Yarp, that's how I feel about it too.

 

I'm not so sure the LRC is a good thing to compare to the SR. Sure, slightly different plastics in the kit... but it's just a variant of a staple chassis for marines. The stormraven is proported to be, and is customised, for Blood Angels and Grey Knights. Clearly they would have added a third flavor element 'vanilla' if they'd planned for general PA codex release. I believe it's all going to a plan they've already designed and near completed and wont deviate from it as they believe what they're doing is correct.

 

Is there a decal sheet that comes with the thing? Does it mean something if there is and it doesn't have anything non BA/GK on it?

Therefore, I think the rumor is for apoc.

[Brother Weasel]

Oh, come on, get over it. He was writing hyperbole about the codex-viewpoint. Problematic? Yes. But there wasn't any Ultra fanboyism in the Blood Angels dex. If anything, it had the same sily fan:cussy over the BA. That is how codices work. They will always go hyperbolic about the armies they are about. The problem with C:SM isn't its hyperbole or insulting of non-Codex chapters — I expect it and even welcome it — the problem with it is that it denigrates the chapters it is supposedly supposed to be about, like the Salamanders or Iron Hands. You play Dark Angels, so what do you care? Because a different codex implied it's better than your own, like every codex inevitably does? Cry some more.

 

 

Yay! (and fan:cussy is now one of my favorite words)

 

 

 

oh and i'm pretty sure Matt Ward has next to nothing to say about what armies get a storm raven. And if he did, who cares.

 

Other armies get it, or they dont', it's not really a big deal in any way.

[Plague Angel]

I have no idea what Mat Ward can and can't do. A lot of people seem convinced he's going to be fired soon over the "terrible" job he did with Codex Space Marines, and yet since then they've given him bigger and more important projects. He did the core rulebooks for both War of the Ring and Warhammer 8th Edition, both of which are great. It's more likely that he'll write Warhammer 40,000 6th edition than that he'll be fired.

 

Yet on the other hand, I've seen him blamed for everything. Games Workshop announces declining sales? Ward's fault. Alessio leaves GW? Ward's fault. Stormraven model doesn't look good to some people? Ward's fault. Dark Eldar overpowered? Ward's fault. Lost a tournament to Imperial Guard mech list? Ward's fault.

 

All this rage over one White Dwarf interview. It's absurd.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

I have no idea what Mat Ward can and can't do. A lot of people seem convinced he's going to be fired soon over the "terrible" job he did with Codex Space Marines, and yet since then they've given him bigger and more important projects. He did the core rulebooks for both War of the Ring and Warhammer 8th Edition, both of which are great. It's more likely that he'll write Warhammer 40,000 6th edition than that he'll be fired.

 

Yet on the other hand, I've seen him blamed for everything. Games Workshop announces declining sales? Ward's fault. Alessio leaves GW? Ward's fault. Stormraven model doesn't look good to some people? Ward's fault. Dark Eldar overpowered? Ward's fault. Lost a tournament to Imperial Guard mech list? Ward's fault.

 

All this rage over one White Dwarf interview. It's absurd.

 

Hah I couldn't agree with you more dude...

[Corton]

I have read all of your posts, and have concluded the following;

 

1-Judging by the quantity of informants that have eluded to the confirmation of this rumor, I would surmise that this is a good and nearly cemented rumor.

 

2-Many of you complain too much. If it happens, it happens. how many people will buy this model (which it utter rubbish) so they can have it? The rules will more then likely be reduced in effectiveness, but it will still more then likely retain some of the basic rules. Besides, what better form of flattery then imitation?

 

3-I won't use the thing. I play Dark Angels, and have seen EVERY special rule that was unique to them be swiped by other codex <insert chapter here>. Combat Squads, Deathwing look-a-likes, functional bike squadrons, bolters AND bolt pistols on basic marines, the list continues. I will not be one of those who jump on the 'new hotness' wagon.

 

4-Calm down, and let them do what they want. God knows we all have seen this happen again and AGAIN.

[Plague Angel]

bolters AND bolt pistols on basic marines

 

 

This is stolen?

[SamaNagol]

Putting a model up for pre-order which will actually be able to be used by 6 times as many customers as it is currently advertised would be the BIGGEST FAILURE IN THE HISTORY OF RETAIL.

 

This is the only thing that I can think would count against other Chapters getting access to the StormRaven in normal games. Because they are missing out on tens of thousands of week 1 sales dollars/pounds.

 

But then GW marketing doesn't always follow conventional reasoning.

 

That would be like putting out the new Call Of Duty for pre-sale on PC, and then on release just shipping copies for PS3 and XBox without ever telling anybody until they were already out.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Putting a model up for pre-order which will actually be able to be used by 6 times as many customers as it is currently advertised would be the BIGGEST FAILURE IN THE HISTORY OF RETAIL.

 

This is the only thing that I can think would count against other Chapters getting access to the StormRaven in normal games. Because they are missing out on tens of thousands of week 1 sales dollars/pounds.

 

But then GW marketing doesn't always follow conventional reasoning.

 

That would be like putting out the new Call Of Duty for pre-sale on PC, and then on release just shipping copies for PS3 and XBox without ever telling anybody until they were already out.

 

Eh yah never know... GW has been ambiguous with their sales designs before; and they have especially been known to pace/stretch out sales; for example not releasing anything each December, but instead in January.

[SamaNagol]

There is not releasing something, and then there is releasing it and not telling 40% of your consumer base they can actually buy it AND use it legally.

[Jorre]

I would really like at least a little exclusivity on this model! A couple months at least. However this model will sooner or later be given to all chapters. You are kidding yourself if you think it won't happen. It sucks but them the breaks!

[Plague Angel]

I would really like at least a little exclusivity on this model! A couple months at least. However this model will sooner or later be given to all chapters. You are kidding yourself if you think it won't happen. It sucks but them the breaks!

 

Just like the Baal Predator, am I right?

 

Look, I don't mind if other codices get the Stormraven, I really don't.

 

But. We. Don't. Know.

 

We have no idea whether the Stormraven will be given to other chapters or not. Claiming for sure that it will be, and/or insulting those who think it won't, is... well... annoying. I'm not even mad. But still, just... oi. We've been having this conversation for a year. So hey. As far as I'm concerned, it's 50/50. If other chapters get it, I'll shrug. If they don't, well that's neat too. Either way, I don't mind. And either way, I haven't taken a position so I won't be embarrassed by saying it's definitely one or the other.

[shatter]

I would really like at least a little exclusivity on this model! A couple months at least. However this model will sooner or later be given to all chapters. You are kidding yourself if you think it won't happen. It sucks but them the breaks!

 

Just like the Baal Predator, am I right?

 

Look, I don't mind if other codices get the Stormraven, I really don't.

 

But. We. Don't. Know.

 

We have no idea whether the Stormraven will be given to other chapters or not. Claiming for sure that it will be, and/or insulting those who think it won't, is... well... annoying. I'm not even mad. But still, just... oi. We've been having this conversation for a year. So hey. As far as I'm concerned, it's 50/50. If other chapters get it, I'll shrug. If they don't, well that's neat too. Either way, I don't mind. And either way, I haven't taken a position so I won't be embarrassed by saying it's definitely one or the other.

 

...but it IS definitely one or the other. ;)

[Kaan]

Also, business wise, it makes much more sense to make it available to all. Especially a new kit to help justify it's development with good sales figures.

 

+1

[Brother Weasel]

I would really like at least a little exclusivity on this model! A couple months at least. However this model will sooner or later be given to all chapters. You are kidding yourself if you think it won't happen. It sucks but them the breaks!

 

Just like the Baal Predator, am I right?

 

Look, I don't mind if other codices get the Stormraven, I really don't.

 

But. We. Don't. Know.

 

We have no idea whether the Stormraven will be given to other chapters or not. Claiming for sure that it will be, and/or insulting those who think it won't, is... well... annoying. I'm not even mad. But still, just... oi. We've been having this conversation for a year. So hey. As far as I'm concerned, it's 50/50. If other chapters get it, I'll shrug. If they don't, well that's neat too. Either way, I don't mind. And either way, I haven't taken a position so I won't be embarrassed by saying it's definitely one or the other.

 

 

you and i think alike PA... the only definite is if/when it happens/ doesn't happen. I'm actually hearing that some people have read the WD (no idea how true that is) and it's not there... but then people like ot have 5 min of fame by saying whatever, so who knows.

 

as for pre releasing it for a few weeks before (if it's true) it's technically available for other armies, well, they dont' work on weeks of sales, it's quarters, nd it won't affect the quarter all that much if the people who would buy it on the 5th buy it on the 5th or the 21st of jan...

 

so, what's the next doom gripe about...