captain sox Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I'd still rather see the SR be BA-only or an Apoc formation. I agree 100%. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/4/#findComment-2627262 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 bolters AND bolt pistols on basic marines This is stolen? Yes. C:SM 4rth edition provided a marine with one weapon and one weapon only. It was not a bolt pistol. And not to pick on you but: If other chapters get it, I'll be meh. I don't see any reason for a chapter to get another chapter's unique toys, whatever chapters those happen to be. In the meantime could you hand back those sterngaurd veterans? And your Landraider Crusaders? How about your Predator Annihilators, fast or otherwise? I wont be using it. I hate the concept of the unit. But theres plenty of precident to GW handing out other 'peoples' stuff to every chapter they can shove it into. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/4/#findComment-2627269 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 ...but it IS definitely one or the other. ;) Oh, you! :P It is definitely one or the other, but time will tell which it is! But I don't want to say which it definitely is yet, since I don't know. And I find it highly unlikely most on the B&C do as well. (I don't want to say "no one" knows because it's possible we have GW/WD employees lurking as I speak? Just trying to cover all my bases!) -signed, Plague Angel aka. Alpharius. bolters AND bolt pistols on basic marines This is stolen? Yes. C:SM 4rth edition provided a marine with one weapon and one weapon only. It was not a bolt pistol. On a Tactical, it doesn't make terribly much difference. The only benefit I see is having a pistol to use as an Assault weapon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/4/#findComment-2627270 Share on other sites More sharing options...
vahouth Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Also, business wise, it makes much more sense to make it available to all. Especially a new kit to help justify it's development with good sales figures. +1 No, it's not. I don't know about you, but when I pick an army I want some uniqueness to it besides colour. If everything is available to everyone, that uniqueness is gone and so does the flavour of the hobby. Also by that logic they should make available to all the chapters besides the SR: Baal Predators Furioso Librarians Land speeder storm Thunderfire cannon Legion of the damned Thunderwolves etc etc... The guy that supported this rumour takes it back... little bit of an interesting update i heard today: apparently GW have done a bit of a last minute back-flip and decided that the stormraven will NOT be useable in all marine armies after all (apoc excluded of course). This completely goes against what i heard a few months back regarding it so im not sure what exactly they're playing at.... edit: note that i said 'apparently'. there could still be light at the end of the tunnel for non BA/GK players Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/4/#findComment-2627351 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealadin Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 The guy that supported this rumour takes it back...little bit of an interesting update i heard today: apparently GW have done a bit of a last minute back-flip and decided that the stormraven will NOT be useable in all marine armies after all (apoc excluded of course). This completely goes against what i heard a few months back regarding it so im not sure what exactly they're playing at.... edit: note that i said 'apparently'. there could still be light at the end of the tunnel for non BA/GK players Sounds like he was just shooting his mouth off.... Also a bolt pistol makes a large difference, it means you can still fire a single shot before charging. This can be pretty useful in some cases. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/4/#findComment-2627433 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonsai Monkey Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Before I start I have to admit to not be a BA player but the way I see it is that BA's get fast vehicles (this includes your pred) and jump infantry as there style and not the only chapter to have discovered flight? More importantly, as others have said at 41 quid, gw would be stupid to limit to one chapter. And they arnt stupid when money is concerned, just look at the price of the BA starter box (i bet you realy miss those scouts?). I disagree with saying that SW stuff should be spread about though if this happens, as for this to happen all the chapters that suddenly discover this huge marine carrying monster that was lurking in the corner all the time would have to also totally forget that they only do things by the rule book as pappa smurf dictated (Which I wouldnt mind actually, raven guard might get interesting again) Anyway I know nothing except the model doesnt look brilliantly sexy enough that I have to jump ship. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/4/#findComment-2627451 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Before I start I have to admit to not be a BA player but the way I see it is that BA's get fast vehicles (this includes your pred) and jump infantry as there style and not the only chapter to have discovered flight? The Stormraven is a Fast vehicle that is designed to transport jump infantry, so I don't think I'm getting the point you're trying to make. Are you suggesting that the Stormraven isn't as much a part of the BA's playstyle as the SW's unique units are to theirs? Because... well... it's a Fast vehicle designed for Jump infantry. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/4/#findComment-2627455 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealadin Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Before I start I have to admit to not be a BA player but the way I see it is that BA's get fast vehicles (this includes your pred) and jump infantry as there style and not the only chapter to have discovered flight? More importantly, as others have said at 41 quid, gw would be stupid to limit to one chapter. And they arnt stupid when money is concerned, just look at the price of the BA starter box (i bet you realy miss those scouts?). I disagree with saying that SW stuff should be spread about though if this happens, as for this to happen all the chapters that suddenly discover this huge marine carrying monster that was lurking in the corner all the time would have to also totally forget that they only do things by the rule book as pappa smurf dictated (Which I wouldnt mind actually, raven guard might get interesting again) Anyway I know nothing except the model doesnt look brilliantly sexy enough that I have to jump ship. What? Honestly.... your post is barely legible. Your attempt at logic also seems to say that BA should give away their unique features, but that SW shouldn't. Which isn't actually really logic at all. The 41 quid part particularly is awesomely amusing. They released a new prism/spinner tank for eldar and lets be honest.... its not exactly an army that is hugely popular at the moment, I mean sure its got a good player base but its so outdated that its quite tragic. Maybe you should be able to include those in your army too? I mean afterall its such a waste for only eldar to get it. You can just add some really canon lore like "Uhhh, we like killed, some, you know, eldar, and stole their tanks" Maybe all the new Dark Eldar models too..... Yes it all makes sense now, Space Marines should just get everything good that everyone else has, in fact lets just remove everyone else. Brilliant! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/4/#findComment-2627465 Share on other sites More sharing options...
vahouth Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I disagree with saying that SW stuff should be spread about though if this happens, as for this to happen all the chapters that suddenly discover this huge marine carrying monster that was lurking in the corner all the time would have to also totally forget that they only do things by the rule book as pappa smurf dictated (Which I wouldnt mind actually, raven guard might get interesting again) You are forgeting the fact that the Raven Guard already have the FW treatment... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/4/#findComment-2627467 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 They released a new prism/spinner tank for eldar and lets be honest.... its not exactly an army that is hugely popular at the moment, I mean sure its got a good player base but its so outdated that its quite tragic. Maybe you should be able to include those in your army too? I mean afterall its such a waste for only eldar to get it. You can just add some really canon lore like "Uhhh, we like killed, some, you know, eldar, and stole their tanks"Maybe all the new Dark Eldar models too..... Yes it all makes sense now, Space Marines should just get everything good that everyone else has, in fact lets just remove everyone else. Brilliant! To be honest, this is what it sounds like to me. I don't care how much the model costs, that in and of itself is not evidence that every chapter is going to get it. Saying "but it'd be bad business for GW to not sell it to other players" applies to every model for every army. But then we've already established I stubbornly insist on seeing Space Marines, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Black Templar as "different armies" and that seems to be the minority view here. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/4/#findComment-2627476 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonsai Monkey Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Hello, more thinking that its a fast vehicle as its a flyer and not as its a BA vehicle. Most vehicle in 40k would move further in real terms its only as they are avoiding lumps and bumps whilst driving around (according to the rule book anyway/sort off). And at the heart of all space marine chapters is a lightning fast assault based army that can get to anyone and anywhere, the fact that the latest codex for norms doesnt push this doesnt mean thats not what they are written up as (and this is where I can say that the BA's are the MOST lightning fast assault based army), So I would have to assume that the concept of delivering a assault unit would be usefull for any chapter in terms of being what they are for rather than a speciality only reserved for BA's. If you want reasons why some chapters shouldnt have them, then most SW's dont like the idea of being off the ground, so they can go with out (only the mental claws would think its a good idea). Only my thoughts. Cant see why you lot dont get land speeder storms though? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/4/#findComment-2627481 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 And at the heart of all space marine chapters is a lightning fast assault based army that can get to anyone and anywhere Crimson Fists, Iron Hands, and Salamanders say hello. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/4/#findComment-2627484 Share on other sites More sharing options...
vahouth Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 They released a new prism/spinner tank for eldar and lets be honest.... its not exactly an army that is hugely popular at the moment, I mean sure its got a good player base but its so outdated that its quite tragic. Maybe you should be able to include those in your army too? I mean afterall its such a waste for only eldar to get it. You can just add some really canon lore like "Uhhh, we like killed, some, you know, eldar, and stole their tanks"Maybe all the new Dark Eldar models too..... Yes it all makes sense now, Space Marines should just get everything good that everyone else has, in fact lets just remove everyone else. Brilliant! To be honest, this is what it sounds like to me. I don't care how much the model costs, that in and of itself is not evidence that every chapter is going to get it. Saying "but it'd be bad business for GW to not sell it to other players" applies to every model for every army. But then we've already established I stubbornly insist on seeing Space Marines, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Black Templar as "different armies" and that seems to be the minority view here. Exactly! Also, the way I see it, sales won't go up if it is available to anyone, for a few reasons: 1. Yes other people would buy it, but some BAs could also leave the hobby pissed, (I've seen this happen from Eldar players when DEs got Harleys). 2. If it's shiny and you like it, you can always buy an new army ($$$) or swap it (less $ but $ none the less) 3. GW's sales won't be saved by the SR kit. Don't forget that almost half of the people that have seen it, hate it already... 4. Giving every new toy released to everyone removes the so much needed diversity from the hobby and gives ground to people saying that all Marines are the same. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/4/#findComment-2627501 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonsai Monkey Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 And I thought today was gonna be dull? Most chapters are assault based, even gun lines. What are drop dops for?? Surely the fact that your dumping LR's out of the sky is a BA speciality enough and divergent enough for to hold on to without crying cos someone thinks that an assault based army should have something other than LR's to deliver its peeps into the :D. By reasons of fluff then, all other army would have anti air systems to use when facing BA's as they rule the skys and are stoppng pidgeons for being in a no fly zone. And Zealadin, if its going can I have living armour monoliths floating around dumping thunderwolf units instead?? (This is a joke before you pop a vein) Cheers Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/4/#findComment-2627520 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 So, my semi-vampiric comrades- does that mean youll be giving back the plans for the Predator Annhilator? And how about the Landraider Crusader? Vindicator? Because those were toys off the Space Wolves, Black Templars and Ultramarines respectively. The Stormraven is far from the defining unit of C:BA, nor is it uniquely useful to them. Believe it or not but SWs, BT, C:SM, and DA all have assault jumpers too :D. In case youd forgotten. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/4/#findComment-2627521 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 bolters AND bolt pistols on basic marines This is stolen? Yes. C:SM 4rth edition provided a marine with one weapon and one weapon only. It was not a bolt pistol. There is a big difference between Combat Squads and Bolter/bolt pistol on all marines being a DA rule and a rule the DA got first (now Deathwing should have stayed DA only). In my opinion, the Baal Predator is a BA only type unit. The Stormraven is a unit the BA got first. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/4/#findComment-2627528 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 In all honesty I made a promise to myself never to field a Crusader unless I was playing a Black Templar army. EDIT: Well said, James. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/4/#findComment-2627529 Share on other sites More sharing options...
vahouth Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 The Stormraven is far from the defining unit of C:BA, nor is it uniquely useful to them. Believe it or not but SWs, BT, C:SM, and DA all have assault jumpers too :D. In case youd forgotten. Respectfully, I disagree. The fluff makes it a defining unit of C:BA and C:GK. To be fielded by other SMs IMHO fluff should support it first and foremost and not come just out of thin air. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/4/#findComment-2627546 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 The fluff has enough loopholes that other chapters could field it. But you know, thematically? I think the Stormraven is more "Blood Angelish" than the Baal Pred, honestly. But I'm biased by my preference for DoA lists I suppose. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/4/#findComment-2627551 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shatter Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Only BA/GK having SRs will encourage the owners of "armies that suck" to change (CHINGCHING!) armies. It can elicit pride and loyalty to the hobby for existing BA and GK owners. Exclusive stops being fun when it, well... isn't. Horses are motivated to spend energy moving to water when they are thirsty and smell it. Not when they're knee deep in it. I'm also trying hard to not compare 5th ed to <5th ed fluff lists of gear for respective chapters. That past is gone... like it never existed for the most part. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/4/#findComment-2627575 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wysten Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Being a space wolves player, I am indifferent to the fielding of the Stormraven. Personally I have always felt that marines have needed a airborn drop off system because, more often then not they are invading a planet face first. While Droppods are indeed a choice, they need to somehow get their resources onto the planet from space, their preds, their dreads, and possibly assist with tanks when away from active dropping. Plus there will always be times, for a chapter, that a drop pod is simply too inaccurate or heavy handed. Like on the upper spire of a Hive World, when they need localised fire support in assitance of an already grounded force. I could imagine the Iron Hands, using the Wolves Codex to field termie sargenents, needing them for basic transportation and being a Tech related chapter, they have a claim on it. I could also imagine Codex Marines needing it to direct termie squads then, say a Land Raider. BA may be a fast chapter, but Marines in general are meant to be elite Shock armys that get in quickly, strike using terror and heavy firepower to win the battle and be rolling to the next battle zone before those Xero knew what hit them. BA have army wide jetpacks, Fast Engines and a general dose of angry marine spread throughout, a storm raven for all won't really take much away. It looks nice and all. £41 on a Stormraven though will be too big an asking price for many and, like BA itself, it may or may not need it in their lists. Hence it never hurts to have it avalible. Just as said about the Luf Engines previously, why would a noble chapter seeking perfection intentionally deny machines that would eventrally be distributed to all chapters? Correct me if I am wrong, but thats something I imagine the space wolves doing really, stealing imperial battleships and Chaos battle barges and laughing off deaththreats. XD Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/4/#findComment-2627629 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 In the meantime could you hand back those sterngaurd veterans? Sure, here you go. They suck anyway. :) And even Crusaders and Annihilators I don't need. Never used them and probably won't in near or far future. Not my playstyle. :yes: The Stormraven, however, is a quite defining element for the playstyle of a typical Blood Angels list(not talking spam lists here...never, ever gonna spam!). And I'd like certain elements of the different codizes to stay exclusive. It's a shame that it happened to BT, SW and DA(DW only armies) and I hope that GW won't do this to us again. The guy that supported this rumour takes it back...(Frgt/10)little bit of an interesting update i heard today: apparently GW have done a bit of a last minute back-flip and decided that the stormraven will NOT be useable in all marine armies after all (apoc excluded of course). This completely goes against what i heard a few months back regarding it so im not sure what exactly they're playing at.... edit: note that i said 'apparently'. there could still be light at the end of the tunnel for non BA/GK players Well, and here we see that the source for this thread is seemly unreliable, and I do question any further statements from it, whatever direction they may take. Not to offend the guy, but contradiction is not a guarantor for reliability. Snorri Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/4/#findComment-2627643 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Sure, here you go. They suck anyway. :)And even Crusaders and Annihilators I don't need. Never used them and probably won't in near or far future. Not my playstyle. :) The Stormraven, however, is a quite defining element for the playstyle of a typical Blood Angels list(not talking spam lists here...never, ever gonna spam!). And I'd like certain elements of the different codizes to stay exclusive. It's a shame that it happened to BT, SW and DA(DW only armies) and I hope that GW won't do this to us again. .... and thus missing the entire point. Which by the way is not wether or not sterngaurd veterans suck *if you think they do perhaps you should be checked for the thirst* or wether or not you in particular use any of those units. The point is that in this game things tend to spread out, wether immediately or over the course of an edition. And getting all up in arms over it isnt helpful... nor can I legitimately seeing this bringing other armies playstyles into the realm of BA's. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/4/#findComment-2627777 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbo1701 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Not going to voice an opinion as such over whether it’s right or wrong, simply going to say how it’ll affect me and my spending as an example. So, I have quite a few SM armies, a few of which were lacking a certain something to make them complete in terms of fluff and gameplay. I see the SMs (both in my interpretation and from the novels I’ve read) as a rapid strike force, who more often than not deploy by DP and thunderhawk. As it stands, it’s hard to represent that in an ordinary game of 40k, thus I wouldn’t so much see the addition of a SR to all armies as theft of a unique BA/GK unit, more as correcting an oversight. So my plans were to save up and get 5 of them as follows: 1 each for my BA/GK armies 1 for my raven guard, as they are a scout/DP/JP army (i.e. no tanks) and this would add transport/firepower for them that is much needed and fits their fluff. 1 for my IH army as they are a mech heavy army and the more vehicles/admech ties the better. 1 for my CFs, as they are a 3 pronged attack army, using a wave of storms with LS escort, a second wave of rhinos and a third wave (which was supposed to be the SR) with pedro/HG/Dread inside to make them all viable as assault units. Now, that would put purchases at £205 GW price, but if I can’t use them in the other 3 armies then I will just buy 1 for each of the GK/BA armies and rethink the other armies, possibly swapping in a DP and LR to do the same job, both of which I would purchase second hand. (i.e. no money for GW) So in this example, GW have lost out on £123 from me based on their decision – a direct example of how not making it available to all actually will affect their sales. I hope it’s not the case but having read what people who’ve seen the WD have said, I don’t hold out much. Whether it’s just a cooling off period to keep BA players (mainly) happy that they have another unique unit and then GW will make it available to all with the rumoured flyer expansion, only time will tell. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/4/#findComment-2627873 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Weasel Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I'm going to say that yes, they will lose money from Jimbo, but i'm gonna go out on a limb and say most people arn't sitting on 5 SM armies:) the question vs JImbo's not buying 3 more, is will they sell 3 more BA or GK armies? (doubtfull, but there is the balance) i can't think of why gw would want a "cooling off period" it' snot like people who want it won't buy it because someone can paint it yellow heheheh... either way, the rumor mongers are now saying it won't be and isn't in the feb WD. I have one on order and wonder if i will get it on the 5th or if it will take a few days, my local GW doen't even have their black box for me to paw over....) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/4/#findComment-2627887 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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