Storm Raven available to other chapters!?

[chaplainmeliadus]

Yes, other chapters use a Thunderhawk.

 

Since we have a higher proportion of jump pack use we have a smaller and more agile vehicle to get from A to B. (not the greatest logic)

 

I'll cry as most of us will but if it happens it happens. We won't forgive GW of course. :lol:

 

Also, it just dawned on me that the gunship could be converted into a star wars LAAT/i Gunship!

 

I have a Valkyrie painted this way for my SW-themed Inquisition army.

[Till]

Exactly!

Also, the way I see it, sales won't go up if it is available to anyone, for a few reasons:

1. Yes other people would buy it, but some BAs could also leave the hobby pissed, (I've seen this happen from Eldar players when DEs got Harleys).

2. If it's shiny and you like it, you can always buy an new army ($$$) or swap it (less $ but $ none the less)

3. GW's sales won't be saved by the SR kit. Don't forget that almost half of the people that have seen it, hate it already...

4. Giving every new toy released to everyone removes the so much needed diversity from the hobby and gives ground to people saying that all Marines are the same.

 

I agree with this. Too many people in this thread are standing behind the idea that if GW doesn't open the kit up to all chapters they're going lose money... How do you know that? Clearly you all think it, but what facts do you have to support it? With the over abundance of marketing/economy analysts that are flooding this thread, we should be having you all work on the US's debt crisis instead of talking about table top games. Would I think about quitting 40k just based on everyone getting the storm raven? no, no way. But ever since I moved, I've been knee deep in powergaming nerds... GW taking away the uniqueness of my army, no matter how tiny some of you claim it to be, is still one more thing making me look at going back to another game.

 

No one knows for sure what capital gains or loses opening this model up would have. If they do open it up to everyone, it wont be a 5 sec decision like most of you think it will be.

[Brother Weasel]

I'm almost the exact opposite as that Till, i don't play any other games, or any other systems nor will I... it's not fanboyism, it's that i've spent to much time and money, as have my friends, and how little we actually get to play (we are older, and our area isn't very good with game clubs, IE none) they could put the BA into the SM codex and i wouldn't leave the game (though i might play my orks more, depends if the playstyle changed)... but i also have friends who have dropped 40k for less reasons the sharing a unit, just shows how much a swing there is from play to player...

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

why are so many people getting so upset about the stormraven being available to other chapters? it says that other chapters get them in the codex. we've got things codex marines don't get, and codex marines have things we don't get. that puts plenty of diversity out there to distinguish us beyond the color of our armor.

[Decoy]

why are so many people getting so upset about the stormraven being available to other chapters?

 

Basically, it boils down to "It's OURS! Not YOURS! Nyah!" That tends to be the case no matter what's getting offered up. I remember BT doing the same thing with the LRC, and Wolves with True Grit.

[Till]

I'm almost the exact opposite as that Till, i don't play any other games, or any other systems nor will I... it's not fanboyism, it's that i've spent to much time and money, as have my friends, and how little we actually get to play (we are older, and our area isn't very good with game clubs, IE none) they could put the BA into the SM codex and i wouldn't leave the game (though i might play my orks more, depends if the playstyle changed)... but i also have friends who have dropped 40k for less reasons the sharing a unit, just shows how much a swing there is from play to player...

 

With you it may not be fanboyizm. With others it may be. To kind of go back and clarify, I'm not a 40k hater, I love this game. I love the fluff, love seeing two well painted armies duke it out, love the little plastic figures that I put the time into paint... But it gets frustrating to see one of the few models that are unique to the BA codex being bartered about in this thread like an earmark for democrats or GOP. Like Gray Mage being bitter about other chapters getting predator annihilators, crusaders, and vindicators. Really? Are you really upset that that a third edition chapter approved list had to give up its tank? Whos to say BT arnt going to get a whole slew of new models when they get an updated codex?

 

A general gaming night for me is pulling out my well painted fluffy/themed list to get murdered by mech guard, and space wolf player who have models falling apart, not painted minis, spray painted coke cans for dreads, and a bad case of body odor. Find a fun game of fully painted armies is a rarity around here... Cool models and sweet fluff are about all I look forward to in this game. Seeing a stormraven gunship put together like crap, not painted, and falling apart while being field in a list of space wolves who are about to beat me in the butt with a cheesed out list is a slap in the face.

 

Again, I want every marine codex to be full of unique units. Each chapter should be bursting with differences.

[Decoy]

Like Gray Mage being bitter about other chapters getting predator annihilators, crusaders, and vindicators. Really? Are you really upset that that a third edition chapter approved list had to give up its tank? Whos to say BT arnt going to get a whole slew of new models when they get an updated codex?

 

I think the point he was making is: "Everyone loses something." Unfortunately, that's the case entirely. Wolves completely lost the Leman Russ Exterminator entirely, which a lot of us had bought and lovingly converted. Now the model was useless to our armies. BT lost the uniqueness of their LRC because it was favored by other players. Wolves lost True Grit, a largely fluff-based piece, because everyone wanted it. Chaos lost... Well, Chaos just lost.

 

Everyone loses things, and the apparently-popular Stormraven is no different. If it was... I don't know... the Bloodbird or something, it'd likely not go anywhere. However, with a name like Stormraven, it's basically asking to get transferred to different armies.

 

The point is, the only reason the SR is "unique" at the moment is because no other Chapter has been updated with it since. At one point, everything was unique to it's chapter. By and large, it all becomes "Standard fare" for the Marine loadout, and the Stormchicken is no different. For what it's worth, most competent Wolf players don't even want the damned useless thing other than to convert, as a challenge. For all we care you can keep the lead blimp.

 

Also...

with a cheesed out list is a slap in the face.

There's no such thing as a "Cheesy" list. Only players who can't cope.

[Brother Weasel]

I'm almost the exact opposite as that Till, i don't play any other games, or any other systems nor will I... it's not fanboyism, it's that i've spent to much time and money, as have my friends, and how little we actually get to play (we are older, and our area isn't very good with game clubs, IE none) they could put the BA into the SM codex and i wouldn't leave the game (though i might play my orks more, depends if the playstyle changed)... but i also have friends who have dropped 40k for less reasons the sharing a unit, just shows how much a swing there is from play to player...

 

With you it may not be fanboyizm. With others it may be. To kind of go back and clarify, I'm not a 40k hater, I love this game. I love the fluff, love seeing two well painted armies duke it out, love the little plastic figures that I put the time into paint... But it gets frustrating to see one of the few models that are unique to the BA codex being bartered about in this thread like an earmark for democrats or GOP. Like Gray Mage being bitter about other chapters getting predator annihilators, crusaders, and vindicators. Really? Are you really upset that that a third edition chapter approved list had to give up its tank? Whos to say BT arnt going to get a whole slew of new models when they get an updated codex?

 

A general gaming night for me is pulling out my well painted fluffy/themed list to get murdered by mech guard, and space wolf player who have models falling apart, not painted minis, spray painted coke cans for dreads, and a bad case of body odor. Find a fun game of fully painted armies is a rarity around here... Cool models and sweet fluff are about all I look forward to in this game. Seeing a stormraven gunship put together like crap, not painted, and falling apart while being field in a list of space wolves who are about to beat me in the butt with a cheesed out list is a slap in the face.

 

Again, I want every marine codex to be full of unique units. Each chapter should be bursting with differences.

 

 

whatr i read there is that your gaming people suck.. more so then others getting a raven... my group is the same group i've played with for 15ish years.. we have a diffrent feel then say, going to the GW store for a pick up game:)

 

and yes ther eare fan boys there are power gamers, there are painters, there are yo0ung and old, it's all a very diverce group in this hobby.... But fear not, as it's looking less and less like anyone will get it in the next month:)

 

i'm as unconcerned with someone else getting the SR as i was about any other thing... but dont' get me wrong, i like havine things others don't, just as others like having things i don't... but i think there is still plenty of diversity in out units and stucture to withstand one ship being more avaliable...

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

The Stormraven is not only smaller than the Thunderhawk but, thanks to its array of vectored thrusters, is also considerably more agile. This, combined with the precise skill and incredible reaction time of its Space Marine crew, allows it to jink effortlessly through the interceptor fire and manoeuvre at full speed through cluttered spires of a hive city. As a result, the Blood Angels employ Stormravens as air support craft in environs where it would be foolish or impractical for a Thunderhawk to attempt the same role. Other Chapters might take a different tack altoghether, using Drop Pods or Land Raiders to achieve the same strategic goals, but the Blood Angels refuse to cede their mastery of the heavens to any foe, even for a moment.

 

This bit here is saying other Chapters don't use the Stormraven, not hinting that they do.

 

To be fair, seems that all you can really prove grammatically from that quote is that there are some other chapters that don't used them, but you can't really prove that no other chapter uses them. This is the sort of ambiguity that GW often employs in fluff so that they can do whatever they feel like later on. Just like the LRC IMO.

 

I agree it's ambiguous enough to leave a loop-hole, especially the parts I didn't quote. This particular bit though, isn't hinting "Other Chapters use the Stormraven." It's saying "Blood Angels use the Stormraven even though other Chapters use Drop Pods instead." Though yes, nothing forbids the implicit "And yet a third group of Chapters use the Stormraven like the Blood Angels." But that's what's implicitly unsaid in the subtext, not what's explicitly there in the surface text. I'm just saying that the words "other Chapters" used here in this paragraph are pointing away from the Stormraven and not towards it; there's still enough leeway in the article as a whole that other Chapters could use it, however.

isn't there a specific quote you seem to be 'overlooking' that clearly says something along the lines of 'and such and such reason is why the SR has had a delayed introduction into other chapters.' ?

my codex is in my car right now, and it's like....20degrees (Fahrenheit for you crazy brits) and snowy...so i'm not to inclined to get up and and go outside right now...but when i get my dex back i'll quote it word for word.

 

not to mention that plenty of other chapters are assault based chapters. raven guard for example, they love their jump packs as much as we do, so it would be completely fluffy for the SR to be used in a RG army.

[Till]

not to mention that plenty of other chapters are assault based chapters. raven guard for example, they love their jump packs as much as we do, so it would be completely fluffy for the SR to be used in a RG army.

 

Im happy you brought this up. As "stick in the mud" as I am about this topic, I would be more than happy to see stormravens used by ravenguard. If the ravenguard got their own unique codex. I still dont want it in the vanilla codex. :D

[Grizzly Adams]

honestly, me and Decoy chatted about this a lil bit on the SW forum, the SR will not be as good/effective/useful in the other codexes, just because they were designed with Blood Angels in mind. they are heavily geared to accentuate the way we play. What Vanilla unit/dreadnought matches the verocity of a properly kitted out Death Company backed up by a DC Dread rockin blood talons? i think that the BA gain the biggest benefits from having it, and honestly if they were available to my Salamanders, i prolly wouldnt run it, and this is coming from a guy who runs a SR in every list

[SnorriSnorrison]

.... and thus missing the entire point.

 

Which by the way is not wether or not sterngaurd veterans suck *if you think they do perhaps you should be checked for the thirst* or wether or not you in particular use any of those units.

 

The point is that in this game things tend to spread out, wether immediately or over the course of an edition. And getting all up in arms over it isnt helpful... nor can I legitimately seeing this bringing other armies playstyles into the realm of BA's.

 

 

I'm afraid I was not missing the point...I was looking at it from another perspective as I still see the possibility that GW won't include the Raven via WD or a .pdf update, or a new version of the specific codizes. A spark of hope, so to speak.

 

Of course, things spread out in this game. This is entirely true and there are too many examples to list them up here.

But the majority of things that were spread out to other chapters were variants of already existing units, for example the Crusader or the Annihilator. The Stormraven is a completely new concept for SM armies, it is not a variant(I'm not counting in the Thunderhawk right now because it's FW and Apocalypse only) and therefore more unlikely to get available for every chapter.

 

 

Well, in the end, we have a rumor from a source that contradicts itsself and the picture of a BA and a GK Stormraven - that's it. It will remain a rumor until we've got the copy of WD that explicitly allows every SM army to use the SR.

 

 

I think it would be nice to just wait for the outcome. The poster's positions have been presented in many ways, but without any news this discussion won't really move on.

 

 

Snorri

[Brother Chris]

As some guys have said, the main purpose of the storm raven is to act as a transport for Jump pack wearing troops (and possibly the jump-pack wearing special characters). They can't fit into any of the other transports. Secondly GW needed a game balanced way to allow Landraider sized vehicles to keep up with the Overcharged engines of the Rhino pattern vehicles. They went for deep striking and making one a skimmer.

 

To my way of thinking, although other chapters may like to buy the shiny new toy, and why not, they don't have the fast rhinos and jump pack troops which make it useful. That enevitably means you will see them more frequently in BA armies than elsewhere, regardless of whether new rules permit them to other chapters.

[Till]

There's no such thing as a "Cheesy" list. Only players who can't cope.

 

You're way off. I have won my fair share of tournaments when I was younger. Through maturity and sportsmanship I found there was more to 40k than winning the nerd Olympics. I don't feel the need to purchase more minis for the sake of trying patch the obvious wound in 40k that is balance. There are thousands of of threads on this forum alone dedicated to the conversion of ridiculous competition in an otherwise casual hobby. There is a profound difference between a person who spends large sums of resources in attempts to crush people in 40k as there is to the person who chooses to play for fun. I chose to play 40k for fun and question those who think its a competitive spectator sport. To insinuate I don't have the ability to cope with with a competitive list is stupid of you; you have no idea who I am or my 40k abilities. My failings at 40k on the table are through choice alone.

 

But I didn't interpret the last part of a your post as a thought provoking comment. It's more of a snide comment to add levity to the rest of your thoughts, a simple jab at me to elicit reaction (which you got), or maybe to justify your own over-achieving nature. Take your pick.

 

Im done posting in this thread. Half the people in here want the mini just because others have it, others don't want people to get it just so they don't. In he end we don't even know if its going to released to other rulebooks at all. I would like to see GW establish individual character to each marine codex. If every model ever made is shared, the ambiguous nature of chapters will continue.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

You're way off. I have won my fair share of tournaments when I was younger. Through maturity and sportsmanship I found there was more to 40k than winning the nerd Olympics. I don't feel the need to purchase more minis for the sake of trying patch the obvious wound in 40k that is balance. There are thousands of of threads on this forum alone dedicated to the conversion of ridiculous competition in an otherwise casual hobby. There is a profound difference between a person who spends large sums of resources in attempts to crush people in 40k as there is to the person who chooses to play for fun. I chose to play 40k for fun and question those who think its a competitive spectator sport. To insinuate I don't have the ability to cope with with a competitive list is stupid of you; you have no idea who I am or my 40k abilities. My failings at 40k on the table are through choice alone.

 

I've nearly tuned out this thread... but here you hit home with me Till... Having played 40k for so long, I realized that beating my friend, or a stranger or whoever, in a game really buys me nothing and does very little for me.; having an epic and narrative battle that I can get entirely wrapped up in, on the other hand, is exactly why I continue to play... regardless of what happens at the end of turn 5(+) whatever.

[Brother Weasel]

I would like to see GW establish individual character to each marine codex. If every model ever made is shared, the ambiguous nature of chapters will continue.

 

i know you are done with the thread and all, but this is just wrong, not that there shouldn't be units spacific, it's that if one gets spread around then they all are... right now we have furioso, libby, SR, Baal pred, DC, sang guard, sang priest... that's 7 units. and we have abilities other don't. Losing 1 unit, specifically an entrily new one to the world, would not be doom, that's all i'm saying. I hope it doesn't because i like the uniqueness as well, but if we lost exclusivity, (near exclusivity) to the SR it's not a big whoop (to me of course).

[JamesI]

I don't understand how the other chapters having the stormraven hurts us from a fluff/fun perspective. considering the Mechanicus produces the ravens, its possible any chapter could get them (unlike the Baal) based on the fluff. If a game is just for fun, I don't see how its made less fun by Space Wolves or Dark Angels or Ultramarines or anyone using the Raven.

 

We have plenty of wonderful things that make the BA unique (Death company, Baals, Fast vehicles, jump packs as troops, Sanguinary Guard, Sanguinary Priests). I don't feel that the raven needs to be one of them (since no matter what GK are going to get it too).

 

I agree with Till that I don't want to see all marine dexes homogenized, but I don't think the Raven being possible for everyone else is a big deal (though the idea of Deathwing in Ravens seems nasty).

 

But, no one posting on this board knows if the Raven will stay BA/GK only, or be spread out in an upcoming White Dwarf or be spread out when Codex Space Marines gets updated. We don't know. Perhaps an upcoming Imperial Armor will pass out the Raven, so if IA rules are allowed others can use it, but if IA rules are not allowed they can't. But this is entirely speculation. No one knows.

[jimbo1701]

honestly, me and Decoy chatted about this a lil bit on the SW forum, the SR will not be as good/effective/useful in the other codexes, just because they were designed with Blood Angels in mind. they are heavily geared to accentuate the way we play. What Vanilla unit/dreadnought matches the verocity of a properly kitted out Death Company backed up by a DC Dread rockin blood talons? i think that the BA gain the biggest benefits from having it, and honestly if they were available to my Salamanders, i prolly wouldnt run it, and this is coming from a guy who runs a SR in every list

 

Just as a counter to this, I think you could argue that a 6 man th/ss squad with ironclad in tow could be just as destructive as 6 gmt termies and a gk dread. Just to illustrate that an army that is allowed it can perform equally to one that isn't, and could even rival ba's. Tho, descent of angels in unison with skies of blood definitely favours ba's.

[Brother Weasel]

I've nearly tuned out this thread... but here you hit home with me Till... Having played 40k for so long, I realized that beating my friend, or a stranger or whoever, in a game really buys me nothing and does very little for me.; having an epic and narrative battle that I can get entirely wrapped up in, on the other hand, is exactly why I continue to play... regardless of what happens at the end of turn 5(+) whatever.

 

 

I barley make competative lists myself, the fun for me is just playing the game, rolling some dice... or i should say, the hobby aspect entertains me more then the game, i'd rather paint and convert then play a game that's super cometative, but i slight no one who plays the game as a competiton, long as the oponent plays the same stile... every so often i'll build a list to be competative against someones uber list, just to see how it goes...:P but now we are so far off topic it's sad...:cuss

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

here's the quote i was talking about earlier.

 

 

"the imperium's bureaucracy is as labyrinthine as it is petty. it is just as believable the shadow-politics and administrative inertia are behind the stormraven's belated introduction into the armies of mankind as it is that the delay was caused only by diligence on the part of the adeptus mechanicus."

 

the armies of mankind...that could mean that the SB and IG may eventually be able to choose it should they like.

 

stop being thick headed cry babies about this. it's been stated before, that we have PLENTY of units and rules to keep us unique from other chapters as well as from the vanilla marines.

[Brother Weasel]

here's the quote i was talking about earlier.

 

 

"the imperium's bureaucracy is as labyrinthine as it is petty. it is just as believable the shadow-politics and administrative inertia are behind the stormraven's belated introduction into the armies of mankind as it is that the delay was caused only by diligence on the part of the adeptus mechanicus."

 

the armies of mankind...that could mean that the SB and IG may eventually be able to choose it should they like.

 

stop being thick headed cry babies about this. it's been stated before, that we have PLENTY of units and rules to keep us unique from other chapters as well as from the vanilla marines.

 

disagreeing with someones view of what should not be given out isn't "thick headed cry baby"... so relax a little there guy/girl

[jimbo1701]

Yeah, we always knew there was one hint about the up and coming in the form of gks, but perhaps there was a further hint about its eventual inclusion in other sm armies.

[Captain Idaho]

I'm all for each army getting their own goodies and do not like each and every army being the same feel. That would be 2nd edition all over again (seriously Dark Angels and Blood Angels were exactly the same as Ultramarines back then).

 

But the Storm Raven is a new edition to Blood Angels and not even released as a model yet. We know Grey Knights are already getting it eh. The Blood Angels will still be different to other armies without it. Think of it as another Landraider variant.

 

Only be protective about your Codex when it loses it's distinct variance in comparison with Space Marines. Panic when Baal Predators are painted green!

[Nomus Sardauk]

If I ever see a Stormraven painted in the colours of the Ultra-smurfs I will, quite seriously, have to physically fight the overwhelming urge to stomp on both it and it's owner repeatedly.

 

Urgh, great, now I have an mental image of a Stormraven done up like Marneus Calgar's personal Land Raider...

[Crimson Devil]

Good/Bad news by BramGaunt over at Warseer:

 

Just skimmed through feb WD.

 

There are NO rules for the Stormraven to use it in other armies. The complete rules, however, are in the WD - including pointcosts, special rules, options, but no sentence that you may use it in another army than GK and Blood Angels. Punchline, all that is missing ist the wording "the Sr is a heavy support choice for all SM Armies" The Hobbyarticle states the SR to be a Space Marine vehicle.

Using the Storm Raven outside of Ba/Gk armies is therefor a gentlemens agreement.