Captain Idaho Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 If I ever see a Stormraven painted in the colours of the Ultra-smurfs I will, quite seriously, have to physically fight the overwhelming urge to stomp on both it and it's owner repeatedly. Urgh, great, now I have an mental image of a Stormraven done up like Marneus Calgar's personal Land Raider... Well I hope if you play me when I get one that you resist the urge to try doing that, because you might have a bit of a shock... :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/6/#findComment-2628252 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomus Sardauk Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 If I ever see a Stormraven painted in the colours of the Ultra-smurfs I will, quite seriously, have to physically fight the overwhelming urge to stomp on both it and it's owner repeatedly. Urgh, great, now I have an mental image of a Stormraven done up like Marneus Calgar's personal Land Raider... Well I hope if you play me when I get one that you resist the urge to try doing that, because you might have a bit of a shock... :( I make no promises brother, simply keep it out of my sight and it shall remain unharmed. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/6/#findComment-2628262 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Sucky that it is Blood Angels only for now, but hey we have to wait until 6th edition Space Marines until we get something, or at least that flying expansion rumoured... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/6/#findComment-2628271 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Weasel Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 If I ever see a Stormraven painted in the colours of the Ultra-smurfs I will, quite seriously, have to physically fight the overwhelming urge to stomp on both it and it's owner repeatedly. Urgh, great, now I have an mental image of a Stormraven done up like Marneus Calgar's personal Land Raider... you really need to relax a lot more... not that i wouldn't love to hear about the vandalism and assault charges filed against someone because they didn't like that fact that someone painted a stormraven blue and all... but seriously, they can take hte minis and do whatever they want with it (doen'st mean you have to allow them to play one if it's not in the rules) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/6/#findComment-2628276 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanguinarian Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 A little off-topic, but I do agree that since our Primarchs are BROTHERS they do and will eventually share their successes and failures based on the theme/scheme/personality of their armies. Every SM army has access to jump packs and dreads, albeit they aren't Sanguinary Guard or VV w/HI or Death Company or Furiosos (Reg, DC or Libby), but they/we all have some similar combination. We also have a Predator exclusively ours by name - although I find it assinine that a tank named after the Space Wolves' Primarch can't be used by his own Chapter!?! Back on topic, now: Since 99.9% of us don't or haven't made a red cent playing this game, or make a living playing this game, how 'bout we ease up the tensions and play the way we want to in our separate playgroups? It's very unlikely that I'll ever play anyone outside of Chicago nor will anyone in Japan play anyone in California or Germany or the UK so why all the drama? If I want to pack 6 Obliterators and a Daemon Prince on my tricked-out Chaos Storm Raven and MY group says "ok, cool!" then who the H-E-C-K are any of you to say I can't? If someone wants to throw 10 Smurfs, Papa Smurf and entomb Tigurius in a Libby Dread and pack them all on a Smurf Raven, who are we to say he/she/it can't if his/her/their group says "ok, cool!"??? WTH!?! Their money, they can do whatever they want to have FUN in their life. What is this, Gangland Earth? In a friendly game - again probably 99.9% of them are - anything goes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/6/#findComment-2628281 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decoy Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 -snip- Just to be contrary... Some of us like playing by the rules. Moreover, some of us do roam around; I've played 40K in four countries and all of the continental U.S.. If I have to change my perception of an army at every new LGS because that particular group completely disregards the rules, it's a pain in the ass. Now, I'm not saying that people can or can't do what they want; I'm all for "Rule of Cool" over "RAW". Just keep in mind that for those not immediately in "your group", not only is it exceedingly difficult to develop tactics (when, for all I know, every rule is in question), it's also an incentive not to return, or to avoid your playgroup. Maybe you don't care, and that's your right as a gamer and a human being. Just know that some of us do have aversions to it, and would rather simply avoid playing against a group that might act as yours does. All I ask, Sang, is that you don't casually disregard us roving gamers. We're people too. :tu: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/6/#findComment-2628295 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMan Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I don't actually want a SR, because i think its ugly, but Librarian Dread? Yes please. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/6/#findComment-2628328 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanguinarian Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 -snip- Just to be contrary... Some of us like playing by the rules. Moreover, some of us do roam around; I've played 40K in four countries and all of the continental U.S.. If I have to change my perception of an army at every new LGS because that particular group completely disregards the rules, it's a pain in the ass. Now, I'm not saying that people can or can't do what they want; I'm all for "Rule of Cool" over "RAW". Just keep in mind that for those not immediately in "your group", not only is it exceedingly difficult to develop tactics (when, for all I know, every rule is in question), it's also an incentive not to return, or to avoid your playgroup. Maybe you don't care, and that's your right as a gamer and a human being. Just know that some of us do have aversions to it, and would rather simply avoid playing against a group that might act as yours does. All I ask, Sang, is that you don't casually disregard us roving gamers. We're people too. :) My apologies, I wasn't even considering LGS's or Tournaments, which apparently all 50,000+ members of the B&C participate in. ;) I was ENTIRELY basing my thoughts off of my homegrown grown-up group that plays at each other's mancaves, etc as a DIRECT RESULT of all the rule-swapping kids at the LGS's/GW's. If you ever roved my way then of course we'd have to agree on standard or homegrown rules or 1 each. My point was more along the lines of freedom to spend their money how they choose to and get in where they fit in. After all this is a game that requires imagination and who are we to deny anyone to do what they want. Will an Imperial Fist Storm Duck be allowed in the next Tourney? Probably not, unless the TD says so, afterwhich if you planned on attending and read that disclaimer you'd have the choice of attending or not. GW and WD are not the LAW on how anyone plays or spends their money. It is a guideline to be used by whichever faction, entity, etc. as they see fit. I don't think Dante and Astorath will claim my head if I paint a pink and purple Storm Raven for my daughter's Lil Bratz in Space army. I wasn't hinting toward rewriting loadouts or anything, but what's the difference if it's painted green, yellow or blue and used EXACTLY how it's written in our 'dex? Do you really think the Mechanicus will deny a Chapter Master for long? Do you think Dante, Mephiston and Astorath would really prevent their cousins from this technology. It will happen and so what when it does. :tu: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/6/#findComment-2628344 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 here's the quote i was talking about earlier. "the imperium's bureaucracy is as labyrinthine as it is petty. it is just as believable the shadow-politics and administrative inertia are behind the stormraven's belated introduction into the armies of mankind as it is that the delay was caused only by diligence on the part of the adeptus mechanicus." the armies of mankind...that could mean that the SB and IG may eventually be able to choose it should they like. stop being thick headed cry babies about this. it's been stated before, that we have PLENTY of units and rules to keep us unique from other chapters as well as from the vanilla marines. "Armies of Mankind" could mean "every single Imperial faction." Or it could mean "the Blood Angels and their successors." It's ambiguous and can go either way. Regardless, you missed my point. I never denied that bit existed, it just wasn't part of the point I was making: I agree it's ambiguous enough to leave a loop-hole, especially the parts I didn't quote. This particular bit though, isn't hinting "Other Chapters use the Stormraven." It's saying "Blood Angels use the Stormraven even though other Chapters use Drop Pods instead." Though yes, nothing forbids the implicit "And yet a third group of Chapters use the Stormraven like the Blood Angels." But that's what's implicitly unsaid in the subtext, not what's explicitly there in the surface text. I'm just saying that the words "other Chapters" used here in this paragraph are pointing away from the Stormraven and not towards it; there's still enough leeway in the article as a whole that other Chapters could use it, however. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/6/#findComment-2628347 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decoy Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Oh, I don't do tournies. Too many die-hard, raving-lunatic WAAC folk in those. If it's just a mancave group, more power to ya. I agree with you entirely on all points. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/6/#findComment-2628349 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 WAAC? EDIT: Oh. Win At All Costs. Never mind. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/6/#findComment-2628351 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gumo9 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 For what it's worth I would not like to see the Stormraven go to other chapters. I personally don't buy what other people have been saying about their chapter needing a way to rapidly deploy troops. ALL Space Marine chapters have had such a vehicle for a long time, it's called the Thunderhawk! The Thunderhawk fits with the fluff for our smurfy friends, our canine pals and all the others - why should you have a smaller, specialised deployment vehicle like us? After all, Blood Angels can't use the Caestus assault ram, the Landraider Achilles, and other bits of kit that everyone apart from us can use. Perhaps the pricetag of the Forgeworld stuff is the real reason that other chapters want a Stormraven. G Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/6/#findComment-2628367 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wysten Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 For what it's worth I would not like to see the Stormraven go to other chapters. I personally don't buy what other people have been saying about their chapter needing a way to rapidly deploy troops. ALL Space Marine chapters have had such a vehicle for a long time, it's called the Thunderhawk! The Thunderhawk fits with the fluff for our smurfy friends, our canine pals and all the others - why should you have a smaller, specialised deployment vehicle like us? After all, Blood Angels can't use the Caestus assault ram, the Landraider Achilles, and other bits of kit that everyone apart from us can use. Perhaps the pricetag of the Forgeworld stuff is the real reason that other chapters want a Stormraven. G The only thing is with the Thunderhawk, is that we can't field it, it simply does not exist. At least not in conventional codexes. It seems strange that a intermediate for the more senstive areas would not exist To reverse the arguement, why would the mechinus give Blood Angels exclusive access to a Grey Knight transport, but exclude Revanwing and White Scars, the more assualty, codex chapters that are also partly based on assualty elements? Or the Iron Hands who have huge affinity for anything mech, a way to carry their termie sarges and Dreadnorts? That to a fluffy guy would hold as much weight as BA being an assualt chapter. To me and many people. The Stormraven fills a intermediate role between the Thunderhawk and the Droppod. being able to bring in troops and dreads while offering some heavy duty close range firesupport. All space marines could easily use it since chapters have to fight in all enviroments, the only ones who can't are probably the space wolves for being such reckless guys that entrusting such a scared artifact is maddness! Heheh Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/6/#findComment-2628392 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I'm almost the exact opposite as that Till, i don't play any other games, or any other systems nor will I... it's not fanboyism, it's that i've spent to much time and money, as have my friends, and how little we actually get to play (we are older, and our area isn't very good with game clubs, IE none) they could put the BA into the SM codex and i wouldn't leave the game (though i might play my orks more, depends if the playstyle changed)... but i also have friends who have dropped 40k for less reasons the sharing a unit, just shows how much a swing there is from play to player... With you it may not be fanboyizm. With others it may be. To kind of go back and clarify, I'm not a 40k hater, I love this game. I love the fluff, love seeing two well painted armies duke it out, love the little plastic figures that I put the time into paint... But it gets frustrating to see one of the few models that are unique to the BA codex being bartered about in this thread like an earmark for democrats or GOP. Like Gray Mage being bitter about other chapters getting predator annihilators, crusaders, and vindicators. Really? Are you really upset that that a third edition chapter approved list had to give up its tank? Whos to say BT arnt going to get a whole slew of new models when they get an updated codex? Im not bitter, Im pointing out the hypocrisy. These vehicles, manufactured by the Ad-mech for Space Marines. Guess what? So are those other 3 vehicles and all of them were at one point chapter specific in the fluff. All marine players currently enjoy the ability to take them in their lists, and personal opinions on the value of those units aside Im willing to bet that almost all of them take it for granted. No ones talking about the truely definitive aspects of C:BA here- fast vehicles, sanguinairy priests, red rage, descent of angels, Death Company, or furiosos. Though Im willing to bet that GK Dreads will be psyckers anyways. A general gaming night for me is pulling out my well painted fluffy/themed list to get murdered by mech guard, and space wolf player who have models falling apart, not painted minis, spray painted coke cans for dreads, and a bad case of body odor. Find a fun game of fully painted armies is a rarity around here... Cool models and sweet fluff are about all I look forward to in this game. Seeing a stormraven gunship put together like crap, not painted, and falling apart while being field in a list of space wolves who are about to beat me in the butt with a cheesed out list is a slap in the face. Again, I want every marine codex to be full of unique units. Each chapter should be bursting with differences. 1) There is no cheese. Cheese is a term used to describe something we find threatening because we refuse to see how to kill it. Fear is the mindkiller ;) 2) If the Stormraven were cheese in the hands of a SW it would be molten gouda in the BA army. It isnt, its an AV 12 skimmer, and while it is an excellent unit its also not incredibly durable for an AV 12 skimmer. 3) If your opponents are so laid back and cool, throwing down lists that they enjoy without resulting cut-throat tactics then how is the inclusion of access to a single new unit going to change that? Eh? Wait, theyre already jerks? Then again this isng going to change anything! Except that maybe itll get you incensed enough to sit up and deal with people who are bringing pop-cans as models. No. Im sorry if your LGS has a group of players who dont put in the extra time and energy to make this game a hobby. Maybe you, who appear to enjoy putting in that time, should try to change that. Teach some kids how to paint, sit down and make a night of it during the week. Givem a tutorial on how to build that shiny new tank of theirs using your years of experiance. Snap up the new players right away and get them hooked on well painted models and show them its possible without putting in a weeks work on each marine. But dont sit here and start saying that your opposed to a game mechanic because your gaming group is a bunch of slobs. Your looking at the wrong culprit here Mr. Till. ***** Now to answer a reasonable question: The Thunderhawk fits with the fluff for our smurfy friends, our canine pals and all the others - why should you have a smaller, specialised deployment vehicle like us? After all, Blood Angels can't use the Caestus assault ram, the Landraider Achilles, and other bits of kit that everyone apart from us can use. Actually, you can. Everything you just listed is FW, and open to all chapters. I wouldnt buy a thunderhawk at their current prices, its true, and in no small part due to the mold deteorating from what Im told. In fact, to my knowledge there are four bits out there BA dont have access to? Trust me, it comes up alot in the ultras forum- Landspeeder Storms, Thunderfire Cannons, Ironclad Dreads, and Thunderwolf Mounts. If I did get a stormraven model- Id have to see it built in person first- It would be to use the front and engines in a scratchbuild for a thunderhawk. ****** Wether or not it happens now, eventually the stormraven will likely be spread to other chapters. I dont care if it happens now. To be honest I hate the idea of this unit in any marine army- BA or not. However, while some of the opposed BA players here have put forth solid arguments against its story-line ability to be outsourced, or have calmly explained their opinions *wich I appreciate* many of the posters here are simply posting an emotional reaction that is as ignorant as it is selfish. I am wholly suprised at this, but perhaps I shouldnt be. There had to be a reason I didnt see very much of your old gaurd around the last few months. Perhaps this is it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/6/#findComment-2628400 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Though Im willing to bet that GK Dreads will be psyckers anyways. I would be incredibly confused if they were not. Actually, you can. Everything you just listed is FW, and open to all chapters. I don't know about the Caestus, but the Achilles says it's a Heavy Support option for Codex Space Marines, Codex Black Templars, Codex Space Wolves, and Codex Dark Angels. So we're actually the only ones who can't use it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/6/#findComment-2628411 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Weasel Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 many of the posters here are simply posting an emotional reaction that is as ignorant as it is selfish. I am wholly suprised at this, but perhaps I shouldnt be. no, you shouldnt be. lots of emotion over some plastic and paper:) and i agree with most of what you said, big picture... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/6/#findComment-2628413 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Actually, you can. Everything you just listed is FW, and open to all chapters. I don't know about the Caestus, but the Achilles says it's a Heavy Support option for Codex Space Marines, Codex Black Templars, Codex Space Wolves, and Codex Dark Angels. So we're actually the only ones who can't use it. My apologies then. The datasheet I got for it says 'for a space marine army'. They must have updated that when they came out with the official rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/6/#findComment-2628457 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Actually, you can. Everything you just listed is FW, and open to all chapters. I don't know about the Caestus, but the Achilles says it's a Heavy Support option for Codex Space Marines, Codex Black Templars, Codex Space Wolves, and Codex Dark Angels. So we're actually the only ones who can't use it. My apologies then. The datasheet I got for it says 'for a space marine army'. They must have updated that when they came out with the official rules. No worries. Though aside from it being Forge World, it's yet another example of a big expensive fancy and much-wanted kit not being available to everyone. EDIT: Though I personally wouldn't use an Achilles except in Apoc, where it doesn't matter anyways. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/6/#findComment-2628479 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vassakov Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Just my thoughts on this whole issue. I've always been of the feeling that all Marines use more or less the same vehicles - Rhinos and their derivatives, Land Raiders of many patterns (from the Phobos to the Helios), Land Speeders and Drop Pods/Thunderhawks. Until C:BA, this held true - in fact, with the Baal the BA were already the only ones with a unique tank. Personally, I don't see a major issue in adding the Storm Raven to the armoury of the Astartes. After all, we all use the same tools. To my mind, the difference in the Astartes Chapters are in the men, not in their tanks/flyers/armour. The Wolves have always been completely different - as different to the Codex Marines as Chaos Marines (who, oddly, still have Rhinos, Land Raiders, Vindicators and such forth! :) ) The Blood Angels, well they had the Death Company and the Black Rage. As we have gained Thunderwolves and Lone Wolves, so they have gained Sanguinary Guards and Librarians in Dreadnoughts. To me, there isn't really anything that screams "Blood Angels" about the Thunderhawk. No moulded on iconography (the little icons are, to my mind the same as Drop Pod icons), no special combat role, nothing. It's been designed as, and portrayed as an Astartes rapid insertion craft. It appears to have as much place in a Raven Guard or Black Templars army as a Blood Angels one. Or, indeed, the Grey Knights. And, as things like the Mortis Dreadnought and Land Raider Crusader/Redeemer have migrated into the mainstream Astartes Armour, so to will the Storm Raven. Blood Angels just happen to have it first. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/6/#findComment-2628586 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeraphimDeSanguinius Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Just my thoughts on this whole issue. I've always been of the feeling that all Marines use more or less the same vehicles - Rhinos and their derivatives, Land Raiders of many patterns (from the Phobos to the Helios), Land Speeders and Drop Pods/Thunderhawks. Until C:BA, this held true - in fact, with the Baal the BA were already the only ones with a unique tank. Personally, I don't see a major issue in adding the Storm Raven to the armoury of the Astartes. After all, we all use the same tools. To my mind, the difference in the Astartes Chapters are in the men, not in their tanks/flyers/armour. The Wolves have always been completely different - as different to the Codex Marines as Chaos Marines (who, oddly, still have Rhinos, Land Raiders, Vindicators and such forth! ;) ) The Blood Angels, well they had the Death Company and the Black Rage. As we have gained Thunderwolves and Lone Wolves, so they have gained Sanguinary Guards and Librarians in Dreadnoughts. To me, there isn't really anything that screams "Blood Angels" about the Thunderhawk. No moulded on iconography (the little icons are, to my mind the same as Drop Pod icons), no special combat role, nothing. It's been designed as, and portrayed as an Astartes rapid insertion craft. It appears to have as much place in a Raven Guard or Black Templars army as a Blood Angels one. Or, indeed, the Grey Knights. And, as things like the Mortis Dreadnought and Land Raider Crusader/Redeemer have migrated into the mainstream Astartes Armour, so to will the Storm Raven. Blood Angels just happen to have it first. It is true that while all Astartes use derivatives of the same vehicles and equipment, the thing that makes chapters diverse are their use of unique STC's of the original vehicle or equipment such as Predators armed with Assault Cannons and Flamers of multiple varieties, the Storm Raven, and all rhino chassis' having higher performance engines, all of which belong to the Blood Angels. Then we have Codex Marines, who have Thunderfire Cannons and Land Speeder Storms. And the Templars, despite everyone having it *now* it was once their own vehicle. The reasons why Blood Angels don't have what the Codex Marines have is beyond me other than the obvious "chapter fairness." But the reason why codex Marines do not have, and in my opinion will never get, what we have is because Canonically the Blood Angels don't share. We have our toys. We don't want yours. Now go away. And that's basically it. Its the same with Grey Knights. No one else gets Nemesis Force Weapons, or Psycannons, or Incinerators. The Blood Angels despite being petitioned by Mars several times, have never given over our designs for the Lucifer engines or the Baal Pattern Predators, I think it will be much the same with the Storm Raven. And... if you look at it from the Perspective of the Grey Knights, Mars hold no sway over the Ordos Malleus, so in a sense it's the same deal, though with less "NO, :D OFF." And more "No." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/6/#findComment-2628641 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howloutloud Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 To be honest, I would love to take 3 of these in my Deathwing army. I am a little disappointed that I won't be able to (though my wallet won't be). And I agree, those marine armies that have received a separate codex should also have units and wargear that's made specifically for them. You guys get the Furioso/Librarian/Death Company dreads, Death Company, Sanguinary Guard, Sanguinary Priests, Assault squad troops, deep striking Land Raiders, Baal Predators and now the Storm Raven. Space Wolves have 4 HQ slots, a special character venerable dread, wolves, Thunderwolf Calvary, Lone Wolves, Wolf Guard, Blood Claws (and their minor variants), Long Fangs and some other stuff (only codex that I don't have in front of me). Black Templar have The Emperors Champion, POTMS Vindicators, scouts in their tactical squads, they can still take 2 heavies in their 5 man terminator squads, and some more stuff. Dark Angels get Mortis Dreads.... oh..., well we're the only ones that can take an all bike arm.... er, lets try another one. We can take an all Terminator army! ... what... Wolves can do that too? Can they mix weaponry in their squad? Dang.... Truth is the only thing we get that's really exclusive to the Dark Angels is our Ravenwing Attack Squad. And that exclusive is our ability to have Land Speeders and Attack Bikes that can hold... oh, only the Land Speeder.... Templar lost the Land Raider Crusader, Wolves lost the Leman Russ tank and some other items, Dark Angels lost almost everything specific to them. Do you really want to cry about losing one vehicle? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/6/#findComment-2628650 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeller Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Just curious, outside the Deathwing and Ravenwing what was unique to the Dark Angels? My knowledge about them and their history as far as codices and options or whatever is extremely minute. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/6/#findComment-2628660 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howloutloud Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Just curious, outside the Deathwing and Ravenwing what was unique to the Dark Angels? My knowledge about them and their history as far as codices and options or whatever is extremely minute. Lets see... The fallen, there used to be a lot of really cool rules for them. Then there were the strength 6 power weapons that were exclusive to the Dark Angels. The Mortis pattern Dreadnought. My entire army used to be stubborn (basically if I failed a leadership test, instead of running away my guys would instead dig their heels in and blast away with everything they could). Iron Wing (all tank list). Armor 14 land speeder, granted that one we still have and he is a special character. Basically they were Shooty to the Blood Angels Assaulty... as for fluff, the best thing I could tell you would be to go to the Dark Angels forum, as there's a lot of it and technically this is the Blood Angels forum :woot: . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/6/#findComment-2628690 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Ignis Domus Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 And now, presenting the very long and complex list of all, wait for it, three unique units in the Vanilla codex! Yes, you heard me folks, we have a whole three unique units! It's astounding! It's amazing! And two of them are even not very good! Yes, ladies and gentlemen, you can't get more unique and awesome than with... VANILLA MARINES! And meanwhile, we have the red-headed step-child of the family, with no uniqueness or flavor, the Blood Angels! With a mere eight unique units, it's a wonder anyone collects these guys! Such little distinction from the other marine armies, they have to hold onto everything they can get! We are truly, truly sorry for the poor Blood Angels. A collection is being taken up in the back of the room for anyone interested in donating to help this tragic group. Don't worry, Blood Angels, we won't forget you! Though I describe it in my usual odd way, what I am saying is thus: Vanilla Marines have three unique units, two of which are not worth much. Yes, it doesn't make sense for Blood Angels to not have them, but look at what Blood Angels have gotten from the other dexes: Vindicator Predator Annihilator Vanguard Redeemer Crusader Pistol Wielding Marines Sternguard And now from a more rational and less emotional point of view: It makes sense for the Vanilla codex at the very least to have Stormraven access. Surely you don't mean to say that less than one percent of chapters are more of an assault army? The Vanilla dex is not Codex: Pure and Strict Codex Followers. It is Codex: The Vast Majority of the Chapters. It's got White Scars, Raven Guard, Hawk Lords, and Exorcists, and that's just out of thirty chapters. All of those make sense that they would have it. And don't say "Their fluff doesn't say anything about it. Your codex's fluff never said anything about Vanguard, Pistol Marines, Sternguard, Redeemers, Astorath, The Sanguinor, Death Company Tycho, Sanguinary Guard, Furioso Dreads not being Death Company Dreads, Librarian Dreadnoughts, annnnd, you guessed it!, the Stormraven. I'd say it makes quite a lot of sense for it to be spread to other chapters. Oh, wow, I spent so much time thinking and typing this that it logged me out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/6/#findComment-2628694 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Dark Angels fluff needs updating in a bad way. It's an extended gay joke that isn't funny anymore. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220078-storm-raven-available-to-other-chapters/page/6/#findComment-2628697 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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