Storm Raven available to other chapters!?

[SamaNagol]

The idea only Blood Angels have librarian dreadnoughts is pretty funny though

[Grizzly Adams]

The idea only Blood Angels have librarian dreadnoughts is pretty funny though

 

i would almost guarantee that libby dreads will be in the next C:SM

[Emperors Immortals]

I personnaly hope that other marines have access to things like the Librarian dread and better VV.

 

 

Of course, wed get rune swords, artificer armour and MoTF.

 

 

 

Basically, i think each codex is balanced against the others and the other races very well, and if you want the Storm Raven, run a BA list of your faction.

 

Makes sense to me.....

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

I would rather not change my army and playstyle for one unit, though. I've spent a long time on my Vanilla marines, and have always come back to them no matter what other armies I try. Or was that my wife? :lol:

[jimbo1701]

There is of course another side to this unending debate. Won't the fact that people can't take a stormraven in their codex army just give them yet another reason to stop playing as codex marines and just use their army as a counts as BA army? Hmm, let's see, I can have all these shiny toys, my tanks are fast, my assault squads are HQ, my devastators and vanguard are cheaper. All I have to do is give up my thunderfire cannon.

 

I can see this being a popular scenario sadly.

[Plague Angel]

Won't the fact that people can't take a stormraven in their codex army just give them yet another reason to stop playing as codex marines and just use their army as a counts as BA army?

 

You say that like it hasn't been the truth for the past year.

[jimbo1701]

Won't the fact that people can't take a stormraven in their codex army just give them yet another reason to stop playing as codex marines and just use their army as a counts as BA army?

 

You say that like it hasn't been the truth for the past year.

 

Exactly, but now there's an actual model of the thing (new and shiny) it will doubtless attract even more players, ugly or not. (the SR not the players)

[Emperors Immortals]

There is of course another side to this unending debate. Won't the fact that people can't take a stormraven in their codex army just give them yet another reason to stop playing as codex marines and just use their army as a counts as BA army? Hmm, let's see, I can have all these shiny toys, my tanks are fast, my assault squads are HQ, my devastators and vanguard are cheaper. All I have to do is give up my thunderfire cannon.

 

I can see this being a popular scenario sadly.

 

 

 

Sure, but to play like BA means paying extra and losing ATSKNF 1/6 (sometimes .5) percent of times - which im not thrilled abouti asure you.

 

Also, Storm ravnen are taken down by Heavy Bolter and stronger regularily, Death Company have no control by us the general and we have no viable captain options, leaving us with spec chars or lib/rec. (which i hate as i dont ever take libs).

 

Lastly what assault squads are HQ? If you mean Honour Guards, then nilla dex allows for relic blades and grenade launchers, which i thin are quite useful indeed.

 

And frankly, i have a BA and an Ultra army, and the two play differently and just as well as each other - i suspect most people are not as unhappy with there dex as they claim.But dont worry, before the DA dex hits the street, thee will be Storm ravens for everyone.

[jimbo1701]

Sure, but to play like BA means paying extra and losing ATSKNF 1/6 (sometimes .5) percent of times - which im not thrilled abouti asure you.

 

I can live with that for FC and fearless in return personally. ATSKNF is extremely useful for not instant regrouping and not being sweeping advanced, neither of which is an issue when you are fearless anyway.

 

Also, Storm ravnen are taken down by Heavy Bolter and stronger regularily

 

They're AV12 all round, so HBs can't touch them

 

Death Company have no control by us the general and we have no viable captain options, leaving us with spec chars or lib/rec. (which i hate as i dont ever take libs).

 

A reclusiarch is the same stats as a captain, comes with a power weapon and allows rerolls (especially with DC) and so could always be proxied as an exceptionally inspiring leader. As for the DC, there are ways of controlling them (screening units, transports) and rage only applies to their movement, not charging. Plus there's no reason vanilla players would even want/need to take them.

 

Lastly what assault squads are HQ? If you mean Honour Guards, then nilla dex allows for relic blades and grenade launchers, which i thin are quite useful indeed.

 

But HG are generally regarded as an unpopular choice, indeed I've never seen anyone play them except for myself and that's only in a fluffy army which rarely wins. Ironically, the addition of a SR may rectify that...

 

 

And frankly, i have a BA and an Ultra army, and the two play differently and just as well as each other - i suspect most people are not as unhappy with there dex as they claim.But dont worry, before the DA dex hits the street, thee will be Storm ravens for everyone.

 

I play both also and certainly will continue to do so. However, there are a lot of people out there who don't and, in light of the new releases, more will follow I dare say.

[Plague Angel]

I don't grudge anyone who switches to C:BA from C:SM just so they can field a Stormraven.

 

But I would find it very, very confusing I admit. The unit isn't that cool, neither in fluff, nor in rules, nor in model. I can't imagine why it's worth quitting your army over.

[Malatox]

I don't grudge anyone who switches to C:BA from C:SM just so they can field

See, I would :/

It just smacks of WAAC. Now don't get me wrong, if it was a tournament or they had put genuine effort into converting thier army to C:BA then I'm all hunky-dorey with it...

I wouldn't say no to a game with them, but I'd think less of them hobby-wise. Maybe it's because I get attached to the fluff and stories behind my armies, I don't know, it just seems distasteful to me.

Why would I want to see Marines in Wolves or Ultramarines colours pretending to be a son of Sanguinius?

 

As I've not posted in this topic yet I'll answer the OP. I don't mind if they did, it wouldn't FEEL right to me at first though. I'd feel like I was cheated out of something, probably a stupid feeling but one id have none the less.

Just my opinion though

Malatox

[vahouth]

Though I describe it in my usual odd way, what I am saying is thus:

Vanilla Marines have three unique units, two of which are not worth much. Yes, it doesn't make sense for Blood Angels to not have them, but look at what Blood Angels have gotten from the other dexes:

Vindicator

Predator Annihilator

Vanguard

Redeemer

Crusader

Pistol Wielding Marines

Sternguard

 

 

Vindicator -> I agree

Predator Annihilator -> I agree

Vanguard -> Originaly BA Veteran Assault squad so technically they were always ours.

Redeemer -> I agree

Crusader -> Also taken by SMs from BTs

Pistol Wielding Marines -> Originaly presented in DAs then BAs PDF and then CSMs. Was only the result of change of the way marines in General should work, and a simplyfication of that period's Armybooks.

Sternguard -> I agree, though I think that are more fitting for DAs.

 

Your codex's fluff never said anything about Vanguard, Pistol Marines, Sternguard, Redeemers, Astorath, The Sanguinor, Death Company Tycho, Sanguinary Guard, Furioso Dreads not being Death Company Dreads, Librarian Dreadnoughts, annnnd, you guessed it!, the Stormraven. I'd say it makes quite a lot of sense for it to be spread to other chapters.

You are wrong about:

Vanguard (Originaly BA Veteran Assault Squad or VAS )

Pistol marines (requires no fluff)

Death Company Tycho (there is ever an old picture of him)

Furioso Dreads not being Death Company Dreads : Furioso dreads never where in DC. As for DC Furiosos look at Moriar.

 

Now my turn:

 

Your Codex never mentioned anything before about Vanguard, Pistol Marines, Sternguard, Redeemers, Vulkan, Kantor, Korsarro Khan, Telion, Sicarius, LS Storm, Thunderfire Cannon, Chronus, Legion of the Damned, Master of the forge and Ironclad Dreadnoughts.

 

As for the Storm Raven, yes you could have access to it eventually, who knows, maybe in the next edition or your next codex (whatever comes first)

 

 

Exactly, but now there's an actual model of the thing (new and shiny) it will doubtless attract even more players, ugly or not. (the SR not the players)

 

If this happens, it will boost GW's sales, because players will also buy BA stuff besides the SR.

Yes they might sell less SRs but could lead them to sell more BA Battleforces, Furiosos, DC boxes, Sanguard boxes.

So the argument that restricting the SR to BAs & GKs only will reduce sales, is moot.

[SamaNagol]

Legion Of The Damned were in the 2nd Ed Codex Ultramrines

[Plague Angel]

Legion Of The Damned were in the 2nd Ed Codex Ultramrines

 

His point still stands.

[Captain Idaho]

Why is the Storm Raven being so jealously guarded by Blood Angels fans? It's not an old unit, it dosen't define Blood Angels on the table top and the back ground doesn't really make sense for it (so why have they got it, despite having strained relationships with Blood Angels?).

 

Seriously, does it really matter? You have fast vehicles, Baal Predators, wide access to Furious Charge and and Feel No Pain, flying Honour Guard, Sternguard despite being Blood Angels who have never had normal veterans, Landraider Crusaders (so those poor Black Templars have to suck it up but you don't?), superior Chaplains and better Librarian powers than Space Marines, Assault Marines as Troops who can take special weapons without being 10 men strong, Mephiston(!), Descent of Angels, etc etc etc

 

It's a little melodramatic to cry foul when you have all that cool stuff and more and a single vehicle that has never before had a model released for, and only existed as a unit entry for less than a year!

 

Every player who dislikes Thunderwolves should cry out for them to get a Storm Raven because there is no room for and expensive Transport, it's expensive cargo and expensive Thunder Wolves in a list with any hope of winning!

[Brother Captain Kezef]

Reminds me of the DA forums when a poor Ultrasmurf got beat for using the DA dex to simulate an Ultra 1st company.

 

I don't care what people do with their money or how they paint their models, so I'm never fussed about who uses the codex and how hey paint the marines.

 

As for the raven, atm it's BA only. the Crusader was BT oly at one point. Sooner or later all armies will have it, doesn't bother me.

[Zeller]

Why is the Storm Raven being so jealously guarded by Blood Angels fans? It's not an old unit, it dosen't define Blood Angels on the table top and the back ground doesn't really make sense for it (so why have they got it, despite having strained relationships with Blood Angels?).

 

Seriously, does it really matter? You have fast vehicles, Baal Predators, wide access to Furious Charge and and Feel No Pain, flying Honour Guard, Sternguard despite being Blood Angels who have never had normal veterans, Landraider Crusaders (so those poor Black Templars have to suck it up but you don't?), superior Chaplains and better Librarian powers than Space Marines, Assault Marines as Troops who can take special weapons without being 10 men strong, Mephiston(!), Descent of Angels, etc etc etc

 

It's a little melodramatic to cry foul when you have all that cool stuff and more and a single vehicle that has never before had a model released for, and only existed as a unit entry for less than a year!

 

Every player who dislikes Thunderwolves should cry out for them to get a Storm Raven because there is no room for and expensive Transport, it's expensive cargo and expensive Thunder Wolves in a list with any hope of winning!

 

We've never had normal veterans despite being a freaking codex chapter? What the hell GW! Our chaplains are leading psychopaths on the battlefield so don't forget the qualifications required for that job. :) C:SM still have good powers. Descent of Angels is more a result of our genetic affinity for flying that anything else me thinks.

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

@ Vahouth

If I remember my PDF codex correctly, Furioso dreads were the psychotic insane dreads of doom.

 

Also, many of the things you mentioned are a) special characters, which you have too, :) things you also have, or c) Legion of the Damned, which have been around for a very long time.

 

Though you had Veteran Assault Squads, they were never called "Vanguard". Also, I don't remember any Death Company Tycho. The only thing that happened was that little quote about how he should be permanently assigned to active duty.

[Captain Idaho]

We've never had normal veterans despite being a freaking codex chapter? What the hell GW! Our chaplains are leading psychopaths on the battlefield so don't forget the qualifications required for that job. :) C:SM still have good powers. Descent of Angels is more a result of our genetic affinity for flying that anything else me thinks.

 

Afraid not; instead of Veterans acting as Tactical Marines Blood Angels have always had Jump Pack equipped Veterans. Whilst it could be argued that Codex Space Marines got the Vanguard, the fact they are never used in the majority of armies and Descent of Angels makes them actually viable for Blood Angels, means this is a minor point.

 

No one is saying Space Marines isn't fun or good on the table top, but there is no need to get defensive about a single Heavy Support choice you've never had before and isn't defining to the Blood Angels on the table top or anything.

 

Hell, why do they even have them (fluff wise)? Obviously it was purely for sales reasons, because a Thunderhawk is too big and powerful for 40K.

[Brother Weasel]

Yawn... we have this you have that.. whine counter whine, all for naught. SR remains only BA today, BA and GK when the GK get a new dex. it may be sm at some point, but there isn't a use arguing about any of it in any direction. it doesn't matter who got something first, last or never. GW adds what they want for balance or fluff when they feel like it, arguing about who had what first for days and days ad nausium, lets move on...

[Plague Angel]

Yawn... we have this you have that.. whine counter whine, all for naught. SR remains only BA today, BA and GK when the GK get a new dex. it may be sm at some point, but there isn't a use arguing about any of it in any direction. it doesn't matter who got something first, last or never. GW adds what they want for balance or fluff when they feel like it, arguing about who had what first for days and days ad nausium, lets move on...

 

Amen, Brother Weasel.

 

I promise not to post in a "Will other chapters get the Stormraven" ever gain, until the day comes (if it ever comes) when they actually do.

[Decoy]

I promise not to post in a "Will other chapters get the Stormraven" ever gain, until the day comes (if it ever comes) when they actually do.

 

I like potatoes.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

@ Vahouth

If I remember my PDF codex correctly, Furioso dreads were the psychotic insane dreads of doom.

 

Also, many of the things you mentioned are a) special characters, which you have too, :D things you also have, or c) Legion of the Damned, which have been around for a very long time.

 

Though you had Veteran Assault Squads, they were never called "Vanguard". Also, I don't remember any Death Company Tycho. The only thing that happened was that little quote about how he should be permanently assigned to active duty.

you're right before now our codex never mentioned a DC tycho, but his fall to the rage and him being put into the DC has an entire story from Armageddon written about it, so it is very well established in fluff

 

omg, they changed the names of our assault veterans from veteran assault squad to vanguard veteran squad! omg what will any one do? they did that to help remind people, that while the BA ARE different they still adhere as closely to the codex astartes as possible (something that i believe they're straying away from even as they try to reaffirm it. )

[Howloutloud]

Actually I do remember a short story where Tycho falls to the black rage. I believe it was Lemartes that inducted/prepared him for the battle. The coolest part of the story was how he was able to juxtapose the fallen primarchs memories into his battle with the orks ending with him being killed and killing the ork warlord in hand to hand combat.... If I remember right he ripped the warlords heart out with his bare hands as he was falling to his wounds. While I could be wrong about that last part, I know the story is out there (maybe in a white dwarf, I used to collect those).

 

But to be fair, I hope he did rip its heart out, thats just bad.... ya.

 

As for the other things you guys get... God I wish my Deathwing could take Land Raiders as transport and be able to DEEPSTRIKE THEM!!!!!!!!!!!! Lol, unfortunately you guys get the shinies :huh:

[JamesI]

This argument has gotten circular. There is little point in debating this, GW will very likely eventually extend the Raven to all chapters. But until it does, debating "We have this, you took this from us, we want this all to ourselves" has gotten pointless.

 

Ergo: