Brother Theophantus Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Think about it, you've got buggered legs, no movement, no control. ou spread your wings, take off and try to land on legs that don't work.... It's common sense that imobile dreads can't use wings. This No way. I know the lib cant move because hes immobile, but seriously it seems counter-intuitive. If he can make a giant piece of metal fly through the air with his thoughts, why couldn't he stop it falling over? No, it makes more sense to me that he can indeed move with Wings rather then not, but its been FAQ'd so its a moot point. This, minus the part about the FAQ as far as I can see. If the dread's legs don't work how can it brace itself when it swings its arms so it doesn't fall over. Or for that matter why doesn't it fall over? Having your legs damaged enought to stop you moving but not badly enough to fall on your backside seems extremely specific. For me 40k is a game about dramatic stories and exciting action. If that doesn't mean anything to you and you just want a tactical game about move and counter move save yourself alot of money and just play chess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 I understand the idea that the power should work even if immobilized. But the wording of the rules doesn't allow it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Immortals Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 I understand the idea that the power should work even if immobilized. But the wording of the rules doesn't allow it. Exactly +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruyn Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 If the dread's legs don't work how can it brace itself when it swings its arms so it doesn't fall over. Or for that matter why doesn't it fall over? Having your legs damaged enought to stop you moving but not badly enough to fall on your backside seems extremely specific. Hmmm... Interesting image in my head: dreadnought dragging its busted-up, legless torso along on its arms while trying to hit an Eldar harlequin that's acrobatically bouncing all around it. Pretty funny, actually. But, yeah, this is a very logical response to the the argument: if the legs are too damaged to support the dreadnought landing or taking off, it would imply that close combat would be impossible if the dreadnought is immobilized. I agree that you can't really argue one without the other. It really depends on what "immobilized" really implies. With a dreadnought, that could be anything from one of the many (exposed) hydraulic hoses or cables being nicked by a stray bullet to their legs being blown clean off. This question could be fixed with some house rules and creating a more detailed damage chart, but most people these days would want some tourney-legal answers, I suppose. That, of course, would mean that a FAQ is in order. For me 40k is a game about dramatic stories and exciting action. If that doesn't mean anything to you and you just want a tactical game about move and counter move save yourself alot of money and just play chess. Agreed, but I'm old school, so what do I know? I remember a time of brilliant, story-driven rules, a time when gamers with interesting and twisted house rules and with a focus on fun dominated over gamers with beardy armies and FTW mentality. Beardy used to be an insult in my gaming circles, but now I hear all of the kiddies at the FLGS using it as a compliment, something to strive for... I don't play in tournaments for that very reason. Until a FAQ is release (and probably even afterwards, ala house rules), my games will allow psychic powers and other models to affect the movement of vehicles with damaged drives or are otherwise immobilized, but that's me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eorek Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Interesting topic... though it raised one more question for me: Can a furioso librarian use a psychic power such as the blood lance/smite even though it's stunned/shaken... or can it use any psychic powers at all? Guess GW didn't really think it through when they decided to make a psychic, flying, immah firin' mah lazor Dreadnought... oh btw... I didn't read all posts in this thread...So I might have missed if if you guys discussed it already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Captain Lucius Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Gonna have to sig the Above! :rolleyes: I'm of the opinion that you cannot move if your are immobilised as the damage states that you cannot MOVE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haunter! Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Wings allows the unit to move as jump infantry. How can that happen if it can't move in the first place? Immobilized Dreads can not fly. End. Of. Story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 The only reason the power doesnt work is because it says so in the FAQ, that's all you need to worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBaals Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 if a FL gets imobilized can he still move using wings of S? the entry for wings specifically states that "the unit may move" as if it had a jumpack. just interested if this has been FaQ'ed or im reading it wrong No. Just no. It cannot move. No no no. I get it. RAW vs. RAI. I'm closer to the later. My Librarians don't get to swing at ST10 the entire game without casting the power each turn either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBMAKENZIE Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Just because something is written ambiguously, doesn't mean people who try and find the literal explanation for it are 'logicking their way to an advantage'. It might not even be an advantage That's the thing. It's not written ambiguously. It makes perfect sense by all rules interpretations. Twisting and turning, trying to find a way to make the Wings power work when it has clearly been stated NOT to work is pretty much the exact definition of "Logicking their way to an advantage". Where has it been stated that it doesnt work? Last I checked Jump Infantry cannot be immobilized and if I am moving like a spunky little RAS marine.... The dread still wouldnt be able to assault but who really cares? More Specifically I believe you'll find the wording on Wings something to the effect of "Moves as if he had a Jump Pack" And you'll find wearing a jump pack makes you Jump Infantry. And you'll find Models that are Jump Infantry cannot be Immobilized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherMoses Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Immobilized - Can't move Moving 12" via jump pack has the word Move in it. This. That. Those. These. :o Sorry had to do it. All of this rules debate over something so minor reminds me of when the rulebook talks about entire armies being lost for centuries in the shuffle of papers and administratum work on Terra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Captain Devlonir Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Where has it been stated that it doesnt work? Last I checked Jump Infantry cannot be immobilized and if I am moving like a spunky little RAS marine.... The dread still wouldnt be able to assault but who really cares? More Specifically I believe you'll find the wording on Wings something to the effect of "Moves as if he had a Jump Pack" And you'll find wearing a jump pack makes you Jump Infantry. And you'll find Models that are Jump Infantry cannot be Immobilized. Last I checked everything moves as infantry unless otherwise stated. It is how the BRB is written. So, jump infantry have their own exception.. one of them being they can move over terrain and move 12 inch. Also, walkers with an AV have their own exceptions.. one of them being the CAN be immobilized. Your reasoning is nullified if you take it further than where you dare take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBMAKENZIE Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Last I checked everything moves as infantry unless otherwise stated. It is how the BRB is written. Yes but this is overwise stated.... So, jump infantry have their own exception.. one of them being they can move over terrain and move 12 inch. Agreed Also, walkers with an AV have their own exceptions.. one of them being the CAN be immobilized. Unless you look at it the other way around. The dreadnought isnt Jump infantry that happens to be a dreadnought. Its a Dreadnought that happens to move like Jump Infantry. Allow me to phrase it as a story. Mr. Furioso is a walker one day while picking the Emperor a bouquet a mean ork shoots a rocket into his kneecap and the whole limb goes flying off making Mr. Furioso collapse onto the ground flailing. Although thats ok because even though he couldn't normally move from his prone position Mr. Furioso happens to be a powerful psyker and generates a pair of PSYCHIC JUMP PACK WINGS *WOOOSH*. So Mr. Furioso lifts himself up off the ground and flutters gracefully, as an elephant with a jet engine, closer to a tech marine to await the repair of his boo-boo. Now as you can see this follows Specific > General. The Dreadnought is Generally a walker but for a phase he specifically functions as Jump Infantry. Which we all know Jump Infantry cannot be immobilized. Your reasoning is nullified if you take it further than where you dare take it. On The Contrary it is my reasoning I can take it where I like, please & thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 but infantry cant be immobilised... and nor can jump infantry. but a dread isnt either, in this case it has a mix of other rules that dont overright its ability to be immobilised... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Theophantus Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I've seen quite a few people, both here and on other forums, say that the WOS issue has been covered in the FAQ but can't find it myself. Can someone link or quote the decision or are people just assuming its in the FAQ as its the kind of thing GW really should have cleared up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBMAKENZIE Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Thats like saying a dread is still a dread and cant move like Jump Infantry ever because its still a dread. Yes it is still a dread But it is not being treated like one for the moment and that is the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Mike Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Immobilized - Can't move Moving 12" via jump pack has the word Move in it. This. That. Those. These. ;) This stuff =P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Thats like saying a dread is still a dread and cant move like Jump Infantry ever because its still a dread. Yes it is still a dread But it is not being treated like one for the moment and that is the point. but it having the power dosent override the point that it is immobilised either, if it cant move at all, but uses a power that means if it can move it moves as a jump packer doesent stop it being imobilised... logically i cant see it being an override button. plus its faqed anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Weasel Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 plus its faqed anyway... i don't disagree, but where is it FAQed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 hmmm, i could swear i saw it in it but now i cant find it... :lol: meh. just as well i find they are over priced... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Weasel Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 hehe, but your opponent may not agree:) i was just wondering if i was missing something somewhere.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentL Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 hmmm, i could swear i saw it in it but now i cant find it... :D meh. just as well i find they are over priced... I'm not sure its in the FAQ but it was in this months white dwarf battle vs the dark eldar wasn't it? His Libby got immobalized and pretty much sat there for the rest of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 thing is if its immobilised it cant assault anywa so you are possibly just getting closer to melta range so i would letan opponent try it if they really wanted, but id never play it that it can fly when immobilised. surely noone is contesting that using wings would allow assault as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Imobolise applies to its own motion though surely? Whereas Wings isn't its own motion is it? Or am I just being awkward? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igotsmeakabob!! Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Imobolise applies to its own motion though surely? Whereas Wings isn't its own motion is it? Or am I just being awkward? Immobilized applies to the unit. It cannot move by itself. It could conceivably be magnagrappled and dragged, but it cannot move itself. Using Wings is moving itself. Via Immobilized, it cannot move itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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