IamCaboose Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 1850 tournament comming up this weekend. My friend will be playing his salamanders, which is the only army my current list has lost to :) . Some how I can't beat his vulkan TH/SS terminators delivered by redeemer. This one squad simply walks through my army like its cool. I know stopped the redeemer early is key but it never happens that way. And when I do stop it(usually in the middle of the board) the terminators just shrug off all my shooting. So what do you guys do about them? Also heres the list I run, changes can be made but take note; I don't own long fangs (heresy I know). HQ Rune Priest- 130 Wolf Tooth Necklace, Runic Armour (Living Lightning and Jaws of the World Wolf) ELITES Wolf Guard(5)- 229 1- Powerfist, Combi-Melta 2- Powerfist, Combi-Melta 3- Powerfist, Storm Bolter 4- Powerfist, Storm Bolter 5- Powerfist, Combi-Plasma Scouts(6)- 145 Meltagun, Meltabombs, Mark of the Wulfen Wolf Guard 1 Venerable Dreadnought- 190 Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer, Extra Armour Drop Pod- 35 TROOPS Grey Hunters(9)- 165 Meltagun, Mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Standard Wolf Guard 2 Rhino- 35 Grey Hunters(9)- 165 Meltagun, Mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Standard Wolf Guard 3 Rhino- 35 Grey Hunters(8)- 150 Meltagun, Mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Standard Wolf Guard 4 Rhino- 35 Grey Hunters(9)- 170 Plasmagun, Mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Standard Wolf Guard 5 Rhino- 35 HEAVY SUPPORT Vindicator- 115 Vindicator- 115 Total: 1749 Caboose Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220110-how-to-handle-salamanders/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olgerth Istaarn Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 The most reliable way to deal with Terminators is the weight of fire. You have so many Grey Hunters, just focus fire these guys and pour on bolter rounds. There is only five of them and they only have one wound each. Enough rolls and he'll roll five ones and twos eventually. Vulkan on his own isn't terribly scary, though unpleasant. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220110-how-to-handle-salamanders/#findComment-2626845 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Lord Hallbjorn Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 The first thing that came to my mind after reading this was that I would get rid of Jaws and replace it with Murderous Hurricane. Nail Vulkan and those termies with Murderous Hurricane after he jumps out of the redeemer (or after you blow it up) and odds are he'll think twice about dumping a mountain of eggs into a tiny basket. I would also suggest taking the dread out of the pod and replacing that multi-melta with a lascannon, or a missile launcher if you're hurting for points that badly. Your current maximum range is 24". I would slap a lascannon on the dread, forget the pod, and deploy him in or near a corner to zap the redeemer from afar. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220110-how-to-handle-salamanders/#findComment-2626848 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Anything can be killed with the judicious application of firepower - no, not the Templar guy :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220110-how-to-handle-salamanders/#findComment-2626850 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zzo Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 I've never a problem with vulkan/termies, thanks to TWC :( But the reason you're having a hard time is because you don't have a real assault unit, you could try using WG termies, or if not, then you are going to need good shooting. You could also try suicide melta drop pods and maybe get lucky and pop the LRR early in the game. Your list really lacks long range anti-tank. Having no long fangs really hurt, as it would compliment your grey hunters the best, but there are other ways. As Hallbjorn suggested, turn the dread into a hellfire dread, gives you at least 1 LC/ML. You could try using preds for LCs but that's up to you. Other than that, just hope you could pop the LRR before it gets to close. Then focus fire on the termies and vulkan. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220110-how-to-handle-salamanders/#findComment-2626970 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Lord Hallbjorn Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Zzo raises a good point. If you have one, you might try substituting one of the vindicators for a predator with at least one lascannon on it. I can see where you might be waiting for the redeemer to steam forward into vindicator range, but by then you're risking that pie plate scattering back onto your own units. Dropping demolisher shells on the redeemer and the termies might be too tempting to pass up, but a lascannon or missile launcher doesn't have a chance of obliterating your own forces when the distances start closing. The vindicator does have a good chance of badly hurting Vulkan and his boys when they pop out, which is why I would say keep one and trade the other for a predator. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220110-how-to-handle-salamanders/#findComment-2627143 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderhawk3015 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Lose the drop pod on the Dread, replace the heavy flamer with a storm bolter, and give it a Wolf Tooth Necklace/Saga of Majesty. Use it as a deterant, keep it in cover untill the land raider gets close then use it to take a pot shot at it, the use it to support your Grey Hunters after the Salamander deathstar is dead. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220110-how-to-handle-salamanders/#findComment-2627256 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon950 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I would make those scouts long-ranged support rather than close combat. Give the drop pod to a grey hunter squad with a melta and have another grey hunter squad armed with a plasma gun. What do you have your wolf guard doing during the battle? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220110-how-to-handle-salamanders/#findComment-2627276 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerwulf Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Exchange JotWW with Murderous Hurricane. First, 3d6 S3 hits may not sound like much, but they might knock one of the termies out. but the real killer are the dangerous terrain tests. If the termies want to get anywhere (i.e. close combat) they will need to move and assault/run. that gives you a good chance that some of them die due to rolling 1s. Furthermore, moving as in difficult terrain will slow them down, which will give you more time to bring more firepower down on them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220110-how-to-handle-salamanders/#findComment-2627284 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evilmerlin Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Why does everybody say that Thunderwolves kill terminators? They need to rend to get pass their 2+ save and then still have their 3++ to worry about. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220110-how-to-handle-salamanders/#findComment-2627354 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Wilhelm Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Long Fangs are perhaps the best SUPPORT choice in the game. Where are yours?! :lol: Also, Speeders are fantastic for MM and HF goodness. Drop the Dread and Vindis fpr Speeders and Fangs. Imo. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220110-how-to-handle-salamanders/#findComment-2627377 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderhawk3015 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Why does everybody say that Thunderwolves kill terminators? They need to rend to get pass their 2+ save and then still have their 3++ to worry about. T5 with 2 wounds, 4 attacks base @ S5, rending, add in storm shields, and thunderwolves will take what the termies have, and dish it back with interest. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220110-how-to-handle-salamanders/#findComment-2627609 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Long Fangs are perhaps the best SUPPORT choice in the game. Long Fangs are the best Heavy Infantry unit available, by far. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220110-how-to-handle-salamanders/#findComment-2627610 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmk17 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Marshal Wilhelm and Captain Juan hit the nail on the head. Long Fangs! They can pop the Redeemer before it rolls an inch and then provide withering suppression fire on the now foot slogging terminators. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220110-how-to-handle-salamanders/#findComment-2628050 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamCaboose Posted January 21, 2011 Author Share Posted January 21, 2011 Thanks for all the replies guys. I've adjusted the list roughly based on what information you've given me. The vindicators are just something I can't give up, ever since I added them in they've done me proud...minus killing my TWC once :tu: . I dug into my "extra marine" box and found 3 metal lascannons and 2 metal multi-meltas at the bottom. So they'll be my LFs, hopefully the MMs will deter first turn pods on my side a little. Here's my new list, it's still meant to be an all comers even though at this point I'm sure I'll be facing either Salamanders or a very OP Demon army for the finals. Tell me what you think: Wolf Lord- 270 Thunderwolf Mount, Frost Blade, Storm Shield, Wolf Tooth Necklace, Runic Armour, Wolf Tail Talisman, Saga of the Bear Rune Priest- 135 Wolf Tooth Necklace, Meltabomb, Runic Armour (Living Lightning & Jaws of the World Wolf) Rune Priest- 120 Wolf Tooth Necklace, Chooser of the Slain (Murderous Hurricane & Living Lightning) Fast Attack Thunderwolf Cavalry(3)- 205 1- Standard 3- Storm Shield 4- Powerfist Elites Wolf Guard(3)- 129 1- Powerfist, Combi-Melta 2- Powerfist, Combi-Melta 3- Powerfist, Combi-Plasma Grey Hunters(8)- 150 Meltagun, Mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Standard Wolf Guard 1 Rhino- 35 Grey Hunters(8)- 150 Meltagun, Mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Standard Wolf Guard 2 Rhino- 35 Grey Hunters(9)- 170 Plasmagun, Mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Standard Wolf Guard 3 Rhino- 35 Long Fangs(6)- 185 3x Lascannon, 2x Multi-Melta Vindicator- 115 Vindicator- 115 Total: 1849 I figure this way theres still good target saturation so something useful will live. LL on my priests so I have some rhino popping range while the LFs deal with heavier armour. I'm not sure on SotB on my lord, it was between that and warrior born. There's another wolves player who takes 2 vindies though and he knows what TWC can do. So what do you think? Caboose Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220110-how-to-handle-salamanders/#findComment-2628330 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmk17 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 I'd go 2x Heavy Bolters over the multi-meltas. Remember, the key to whittling down the the Terminators is to force lots of rolls. He has to take the best save (3+ invul), so he has a 33% chance to NOT save. The more dice he has to roll, the more chances he has to fail. With Terminators being 1 wound models, 1 failure means 1 less. There may be some cheaper options on the TWC, but I'll let those more experienced with them discuss their tactics. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220110-how-to-handle-salamanders/#findComment-2628865 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon950 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 I would take out the first rune priest that you have and get some more wolf guard with ranged weapons or put the scouts back in. Only go with maybe 2 lascannons instead of 3. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220110-how-to-handle-salamanders/#findComment-2628912 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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