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How to handle Salamanders!


IamCaboose

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1850 tournament comming up this weekend. My friend will be playing his salamanders, which is the only army my current list has lost to :) . Some how I can't beat his vulkan TH/SS terminators delivered by redeemer. This one squad simply walks through my army like its cool. I know stopped the redeemer early is key but it never happens that way. And when I do stop it(usually in the middle of the board) the terminators just shrug off all my shooting. So what do you guys do about them? Also heres the list I run, changes can be made but take note; I don't own long fangs (heresy I know).

 

HQ

 

Rune Priest- 130

Wolf Tooth Necklace, Runic Armour (Living Lightning and Jaws of the World Wolf)

 

ELITES

 

Wolf Guard(5)- 229

1- Powerfist, Combi-Melta

2- Powerfist, Combi-Melta

3- Powerfist, Storm Bolter

4- Powerfist, Storm Bolter

5- Powerfist, Combi-Plasma

 

Scouts(6)- 145

Meltagun, Meltabombs, Mark of the Wulfen

Wolf Guard 1

 

Venerable Dreadnought- 190

Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer, Extra Armour

Drop Pod- 35

 

TROOPS

 

Grey Hunters(9)- 165

Meltagun, Mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Standard

Wolf Guard 2

Rhino- 35

 

Grey Hunters(9)- 165

Meltagun, Mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Standard

Wolf Guard 3

Rhino- 35

 

Grey Hunters(8)- 150

Meltagun, Mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Standard

Wolf Guard 4

Rhino- 35

 

Grey Hunters(9)- 170

Plasmagun, Mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Standard

Wolf Guard 5

Rhino- 35

 

HEAVY SUPPORT

 

Vindicator- 115

 

Vindicator- 115

 

Total: 1749

 

Caboose

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The most reliable way to deal with Terminators is the weight of fire. You have so many Grey Hunters, just focus fire these guys and pour on bolter rounds. There is only five of them and they only have one wound each. Enough rolls and he'll roll five ones and twos eventually.

 

Vulkan on his own isn't terribly scary, though unpleasant.

The first thing that came to my mind after reading this was that I would get rid of Jaws and replace it with Murderous Hurricane. Nail Vulkan and those termies with Murderous Hurricane after he jumps out of the redeemer (or after you blow it up) and odds are he'll think twice about dumping a mountain of eggs into a tiny basket.

 

I would also suggest taking the dread out of the pod and replacing that multi-melta with a lascannon, or a missile launcher if you're hurting for points that badly. Your current maximum range is 24". I would slap a lascannon on the dread, forget the pod, and deploy him in or near a corner to zap the redeemer from afar.

I've never a problem with vulkan/termies, thanks to TWC :( But the reason you're having a hard time is because you don't have a real assault unit, you could try using WG termies, or if not, then you are going to need good shooting. You could also try suicide melta drop pods and maybe get lucky and pop the LRR early in the game.

 

Your list really lacks long range anti-tank. Having no long fangs really hurt, as it would compliment your grey hunters the best, but there are other ways. As Hallbjorn suggested, turn the dread into a hellfire dread, gives you at least 1 LC/ML. You could try using preds for LCs but that's up to you.

 

Other than that, just hope you could pop the LRR before it gets to close. Then focus fire on the termies and vulkan.

Zzo raises a good point. If you have one, you might try substituting one of the vindicators for a predator with at least one lascannon on it.

 

I can see where you might be waiting for the redeemer to steam forward into vindicator range, but by then you're risking that pie plate scattering back onto your own units. Dropping demolisher shells on the redeemer and the termies might be too tempting to pass up, but a lascannon or missile launcher doesn't have a chance of obliterating your own forces when the distances start closing.

 

The vindicator does have a good chance of badly hurting Vulkan and his boys when they pop out, which is why I would say keep one and trade the other for a predator.

Lose the drop pod on the Dread, replace the heavy flamer with a storm bolter, and give it a Wolf Tooth Necklace/Saga of Majesty. Use it as a deterant, keep it in cover untill the land raider gets close then use it to take a pot shot at it, the use it to support your Grey Hunters after the Salamander deathstar is dead.

Exchange JotWW with Murderous Hurricane.

 

First, 3d6 S3 hits may not sound like much, but they might knock one of the termies out. but the real killer are the dangerous terrain tests.

 

If the termies want to get anywhere (i.e. close combat) they will need to move and assault/run. that gives you a good chance that some of them die due to rolling 1s.

Furthermore, moving as in difficult terrain will slow them down, which will give you more time to bring more firepower down on them.

Why does everybody say that Thunderwolves kill terminators? They need to rend to get pass their 2+ save and then still have their 3++ to worry about.

 

T5 with 2 wounds, 4 attacks base @ S5, rending, add in storm shields, and thunderwolves will take what the termies have, and dish it back with interest.

Thanks for all the replies guys. I've adjusted the list roughly based on what information you've given me. The vindicators are just something I can't give up, ever since I added them in they've done me proud...minus killing my TWC once :tu: . I dug into my "extra marine" box and found 3 metal lascannons and 2 metal multi-meltas at the bottom. So they'll be my LFs, hopefully the MMs will deter first turn pods on my side a little. Here's my new list, it's still meant to be an all comers even though at this point I'm sure I'll be facing either Salamanders or a very OP Demon army for the finals. Tell me what you think:

 

Wolf Lord- 270

Thunderwolf Mount, Frost Blade, Storm Shield, Wolf Tooth Necklace, Runic Armour, Wolf Tail Talisman, Saga of the Bear

 

Rune Priest- 135

Wolf Tooth Necklace, Meltabomb, Runic Armour (Living Lightning & Jaws of the World Wolf)

 

Rune Priest- 120

Wolf Tooth Necklace, Chooser of the Slain (Murderous Hurricane & Living Lightning)

 

Fast Attack

 

Thunderwolf Cavalry(3)- 205

1- Standard

3- Storm Shield

4- Powerfist

 

Elites

 

Wolf Guard(3)- 129

1- Powerfist, Combi-Melta

2- Powerfist, Combi-Melta

3- Powerfist, Combi-Plasma

 

Grey Hunters(8)- 150

Meltagun, Mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Standard

Wolf Guard 1

Rhino- 35

 

Grey Hunters(8)- 150

Meltagun, Mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Standard

Wolf Guard 2

Rhino- 35

 

Grey Hunters(9)- 170

Plasmagun, Mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Standard

Wolf Guard 3

Rhino- 35

 

 

Long Fangs(6)- 185

3x Lascannon, 2x Multi-Melta

 

Vindicator- 115

 

Vindicator- 115

 

 

Total: 1849

 

I figure this way theres still good target saturation so something useful will live. LL on my priests so I have some rhino popping range while the LFs deal with heavier armour. I'm not sure on SotB on my lord, it was between that and warrior born. There's another wolves player who takes 2 vindies though and he knows what TWC can do. So what do you think?

 

Caboose

I'd go 2x Heavy Bolters over the multi-meltas. Remember, the key to whittling down the the Terminators is to force lots of rolls. He has to take the best save (3+ invul), so he has a 33% chance to NOT save. The more dice he has to roll, the more chances he has to fail. With Terminators being 1 wound models, 1 failure means 1 less.

 

There may be some cheaper options on the TWC, but I'll let those more experienced with them discuss their tactics.

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