elithren Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Also, I've played this ork army twice now and both times, it is ridiculous what it does. 3 battlewagons with deathrollers 2 warbosses with claws 3 of 10 troops of nobs with combi flamers, claws, painboy, and the thing that gives the nobs their invuln. Basically they just charge and then flame the crap out of anything. Both games I have tried to shoot the tanks and make them foot slog but this list is just not fun to play against. So, what does the Fang recommend on handling such a beast? Here is the list I use: HQ Freyr Firewolf – 245 • Frost Axe • Storm Shield • Thunderwolf mount • Wolftooth necklace • Meltabombs • Runic armor • Beastslayer. Brandr Flametongue – 125 • Runic armor • Melta bombs Or Tom Firewalker – 125 • Frost blade • Runic armor • Wolftooth necklace Elites Pyroguard - 134 Rig • TH/Combi melta • Power armor Ranulfr • PF/Combi melta • Power armor Surt • PF/Combi flamer • Power armor Firegiant Thrall - 165 • Multi Melta • Heavy flamer • Extra armor • Drop pod transport Troops Grey Hunter pack Baldur – 175 • 9 Man pack • 1 Melta gun • Drop pod Grey Hunter pack Ulf – 145 • 8 man pack • 1 flamer • Wolf Standard • Mark of the wulfen Grey Hunter pack Aesir – 190 • 9 man pack • 2 flamers • Power weapon • Drop pod Fast Attack Fire wolves – 300 • 4 thunderwolves • 1 TH and 1 SS • 1 Meltabomb • 1 SS • 1 normal Heavy Support Long Fang Joten – 115 • 5 Long Fangs • 4 missile launchers Long Fang Heim – 155 • 5 Long Fangs • 4 Plasma cannons Land Raider “Fafnir” - 250 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220186-ork-battleforce/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decoy Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 No such thing as a "Cheesy" army, only players who can't cope. Honestly, it sounds like a bit of a "Joke" army. I have the exact same thing, but done with the Wolf dex (Wolfguard with Combis, Razors with Heavies, Long Fangs with Heavies, et cetera.) The guy's only got 30 models, and you have plenty of AP-busting. However, as it stands, it looks like your list is fairly heavy in things that you don't need. You have one land raider and only two Drop Pods; You're an Ork-army's dream. Your low squad/tank count means any long range firepower can focus on your tank or your troops, and his Deffrollas can run rampant over you because you have very little long-range firepower. At your most badass, you can blow up three tanks a turn, assuming everything is coming up roses for you. Flamers and Meltas don't mean jack if you don't have the ability to drop those tanks before the Orks get to you; Drop the Plasmas and upgrade to Lascannons, and when you drop in your troops, take great care to use the Pod as cover to the best of your ability. Getting a drop-flame is less important than your squad's continual existence. Also, have you tried making him come to you? Let him soak a few turns of firepower, drop his transports. Wolves are the ABSOLUTE BEST if given 24"-12" firing solution, and it seems like you're purposefully denying your army that precious zone of death that we use so well. Drop Pods are fine and dandy, but you're using too few of them to make them a viable threat against 30 nobz. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220186-ork-battleforce/#findComment-2628085 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vassakov Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 No such thing as a "Cheesy" army, only players who can't cope. Honestly, it sounds like a bit of a "Joke" army. I have the exact same thing, but done with the Wolf dex (Wolfguard with Combis, Razors with Heavies, Long Fangs with Heavies, et cetera.) The guy's only got 30 models, and you have plenty of AP-busting. However, as it stands, it looks like your list is fairly heavy in things that you don't need. You have one land raider and only two Drop Pods; You're an Ork-army's dream. Your low squad/tank count means any long range firepower can focus on your tank or your troops, and his Deffrollas can run rampant over you because you have very little long-range firepower. At your most badass, you can blow up three tanks a turn, assuming everything is coming up roses for you. Flamers and Meltas don't mean jack if you don't have the ability to drop those tanks before the Orks get to you; Drop the Plasmas and upgrade to Lascannons, and when you drop in your troops, take great care to use the Pod as cover to the best of your ability. Getting a drop-flame is less important than your squad's continual existence. Also, have you tried making him come to you? Let him soak a few turns of firepower, drop his transports. Wolves are the ABSOLUTE BEST if given 24"-12" firing solution, and it seems like you're purposefully denying your army that precious zone of death that we use so well. Drop Pods are fine and dandy, but you're using too few of them to make them a viable threat against 30 nobz. What Decoy said. Your Pods are a goddsend to him, as if you come in close even if you nail the Wagons, the Nobz will pull you apart piecemeal. 4-5 Pods in an army is possible, but anything less and you're in trouble. So, you need to take out the Wagons. Lascannons will do this nicely. You might also want to consider dropping the EA and Pod from the Dreadnought and giving him a Twin Linked Lascannon. If you can, get the Nobz into Rapid Fire range and hose them with Plasma, Melta and Lascannon fire - denies FNP and means they have to rely on their 5++, which isn't great. If you can get the Nobz down to maybe 3/4 models before they hit the Grey Hunters ought to tear them a new one in CQC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220186-ork-battleforce/#findComment-2628104 Share on other sites More sharing options...
elithren Posted January 21, 2011 Author Share Posted January 21, 2011 Thanks for the fast reply, guys. Normally, this list does well for me except against this guy. Interesting side note is that no one else is willing to play him when he brings his orks, though is BA list of 3 stormravens and 3 death company is pretty much the same format. In the first game, I popped two of the 3 tanks but that dang waaagh gives him the range he needs to get to me ( rolled 6 in both games). I give him a good fight and do kill alot of orcs, especially my twolves, but I cant seem to stop being overrun when I'm going defensive and making him come to me. I'll look into the change for the pods and dread, but I dont want to tailer the list per say to just beat this guy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220186-ork-battleforce/#findComment-2628136 Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I mean just to tackle that list (and probably in general) If you can find the points giving your lord a Power fist or Hammer, and saga of the bear (so he does not get insta killed by warbosses) he should kill NObs pretty easily (same with you Thunder cav, if you split them up into 3 smaller units of one each with a fist/hammer and SS. You will do better against NObs, when every one of your attacks that gets through kills a model it really helps. The lord gets 5? attacks on the charge would be a S 10, SO he hits and wounds 3 or 4 times. And the nobs might save one on average killing 3 of them. Similarly all ML Long Fangs would be better than ML and Plasma cannons. Missiles are better at taking out Battle wagons and nobs (no armor save, no feel no pain, just a 5+ and every failed save is a dead nob. Smaller GH squads would help as well, that way when he charges you he kills you, and then can get shot by the rest of your army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220186-ork-battleforce/#findComment-2628157 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Johnson the 3rd jr Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Too many HQs, drop the cheaper one. Switch Long Fangs to all missiles. You'd get over 150 points to play with if you did that. Cavalry take up a lot of points - you have to be very, very careful with them when facing hordes. If your lord and cavalry are facing a mob of super cheap orks, they might win, but with bad rolling they may not. Either way, he can tie up 400-500 points of your army with less than 200 points of his, giving him an advantage for a few turns. Now that doesn't apply in this case because your friend has a ridiculous Nob army, but it is something to keep in mind for other games. If it were me, I'd take a more shooty army. I love Wolves for their versatility and I do run Cavalry sometimes, but not always. A list with a Rune Priest, lots of Long Fangs and Rhinos / Razorbacks, with long range fire capability, could work well against those stupid Nobs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220186-ork-battleforce/#findComment-2628218 Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Did you even read the ork list he is facing, it is tri battle wagon NOb deathstars, no hordes at all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220186-ork-battleforce/#findComment-2628240 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 did i read his list right- 2 warbossses and the nobs have the 5+things, if thats true illegal list i think. they can only get the 5+inv on squads if they take the mad doc which is an hq choice, which one way or another makes the foc illegal... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220186-ork-battleforce/#findComment-2628253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Johnson the 3rd jr Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Did you even read the ork list he is facing, it is tri battle wagon NOb deathstars, no hordes at all. Oh dear, you embarrassed yourself. I gave him general ork advice then said "Now that doesn't apply in this case because your friend has a ridiculous Nob army, but it is something to keep in mind for other games." Then I proceeded to give him advice specific to the list he was facing. And you tried to chastise me for not reading? When you didn't even read my post properly? Oh the irony! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220186-ork-battleforce/#findComment-2628264 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decoy Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Enough tongue-wagging, whelps. If you two want to bicker, bring it to a private message exchange. Don't clutter the thread with perceived and actual insults. Keep it at least civil, if not on topic. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220186-ork-battleforce/#findComment-2628284 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSpike Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 did i read his list right- 2 warbossses and the nobs have the 5+things, if thats true illegal list i think. they can only get the 5+inv on squads if they take the mad doc which is an hq choice, which one way or another makes the foc illegal... Speaking as an Ork Player Expert on Xeno Tactics and Psychology: Nob squads may take a PainBoy, which gives the Mob FNP and allows that mob to buy Cybork Bodies (5++). Mad Doc Grotsnik allows ALL Mobs to buy Cybork. (And gives any mob he joins a variant on Rage). So if he's only using Nobs, he can buy them each a PainBoy. Missile Launchers (Krak) soon make a mess of Nobs. wounding on 2+, only 5++ save, no FNP, insta-kill. Once you've opened the Wagons, of course, but without the Ubiquitous Kustom Force Field, this shouldn't be too hard. AV14 front is Lascannon/Melta territory, but AC12 sides break easily if you can get bikes/speeders/deepstrikers/etc to see them. With nothing but 3 wagons, he can't use the usual "shield the side armour with other stuff" trick. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220186-ork-battleforce/#findComment-2628285 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORKILL Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Don't play harder, play smarter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220186-ork-battleforce/#findComment-2628296 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Johnson the 3rd jr Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 No bickering, just pointing out the obvious mistake and the irony. Missile Launchers (Krak) soon make a mess of Nobs. wounding on 2+, only 5++ save, no FNP, insta-kill. Yeah, this bears repeating. Missiles are great in almost every list, and they certainly help a lot in this specific case. Dropping that one HQ and switching the plasma guys to missiles gets you more blown up transports, and likely double the Nob killin' plus an option to take a whole another missile squad of Fangs with the left over points! Or something else to help blow up the transports and slow his advance down ("Rifleman" Dreadnought, Rune Priest etc; ). Still not liking the Land Raider in this build either, that's a point sink. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220186-ork-battleforce/#findComment-2628301 Share on other sites More sharing options...
elithren Posted January 21, 2011 Author Share Posted January 21, 2011 I should specify that the two 125 point HQs are either or options, I dont run both. One is a priest and the other is a WGBL that I'll switch out depending on my mood. I'd like to keep the land raider cause it's always performed well for me, especially when the priest is inside it (always seemed to ignore anything that would wreck his ride). I've changed the list to take out the drop pods and replace them with rhinos, and the dread now has a TLLC. My long fangs are more or less the same, the second squad changing to 2 plasma and 2 lascannons (I dont have any more missile launchers). And to clarify, they did have painboys in the squads. Sorry for not mentioning that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220186-ork-battleforce/#findComment-2628381 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 2 Warbosses means no weird mekboy coversave on vehicles, i would consider hitting that battlewagon and make them walk the field. Next step is to jaws the Painboy from the safety of a Rhino. Once those 2 things are dealt with its down to good old bolter time. Let him charge you, might seem weird but the idea is you have more bolter shots and you have counter charge. Thats more wounds on his units. Also target the Nob unit in cc ignore the boss due to high toughness, hell most likely succumb to Leadership tests in the end. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220186-ork-battleforce/#findComment-2628405 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Orks have Furious Charge, so I might rethink that if it were me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220186-ork-battleforce/#findComment-2628435 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vassakov Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Orks have Furious Charge, so I might rethink that if it were me. As his entire army appears to have Power Klaws, there is no difference - they'll still strike last, and still wound on a 2+. In general, I'd probably go with the volley followed by counter charge, but as they have flamers, it might be worth trying to tie them up just to stop those hitting you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220186-ork-battleforce/#findComment-2628439 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Orks have Furious Charge, so I might rethink that if it were me. As his entire army appears to have Power Klaws, there is no difference - they'll still strike last, and still wound on a 2+. Ah, good point. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220186-ork-battleforce/#findComment-2628459 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Wilhelm Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 What makes Wolves great are a few things. My advice therefore says 'only take these things'. Some may not like that approach and feel it borders or crosses into spamminess. SUPPORT: Fangs with ML. They are the best bang-for-buck weapon and conveniently can be used on infantry when the AV is gone. TROOPS: Greys. Be they in LasPlas Razors or Rhinos [with Rune Priest zzapping away], these are a good thing. MotW and Totem for the bigger packs. ATTACK: Speeders. Typhoon offers excellent mobile ML, keeping Eldars in reach and also keeping out of reach of others. MM HF offers two of the better weapons in the game, on a cheap & mobile platform that can DS and flat-out. TWC. Long charge range. s10 weapons. wound allocation. One of the best units in the game. ELITE: Scouts. Not as good as Speeders on the table, imo. But they do offer 'threat' and that compels the foe to deploy away from his edges and therefore closer to your guys. Great against shooty armies. Rifleman dread. Like the Typhoon. Slower but sturdier. Wolf Guard. PF and combi-Mg are so cheap and great for larger packs, buffing Ld for morale and counter-attack. Naked. Meatshield for Fangs. It is the only weakness that Fangs have compared to Devs. HQ: Rune Priest. Perhaps the best value HQ of the game and as useful as the Librarian. LL is the most flexible power out. Having more than one LL caster is no hardship, whereas other powers cannot be run like that without treading on one anothers toes. JotWW is always handy. Not game breaking like it was feared, but even getting rid of that PK Nob is very handy. MH is great for slowing rush armies and stopping evasive armies [Eldars and Tau] from getting away SC toughens your squads and tanks. Deldar have Flickerfields because they needed toughening up, and so Rhinos will also benefit from such a thing. Not very popular because it isn't killy. TW is horrid for DS armies. Pods, Jumpers and Daemons all weep. Thunder Lord. Daemon Prince++ Basically a Monstrous Creature that can join units [TWC and Fenwolves], making Meph, Nid and Chaos players jealous. SS and WC for the win ;) And it is quick ^_^ +++ These are the best things, imo and that of a few internetters. You see these things cropping up over and again, with good reason. This does not mean other stuff does not work, and I am sure people will make other units with great success. But this stuff gets it done again and again. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220186-ork-battleforce/#findComment-2628562 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dchmp Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 I didn't read all the above posts so this might have been said above but move blocking with MM Landspeeders would really buy you time, and if he doesn't get rid of them the MM should give you a good shot at damaging the BWs. Pods are also a good way to limits his movement. For fun you could put some lone wolves with TA, SS and CFs to make him rethink running over them and getting a death or glory from them, if they die good for you, if the BM dies good for you. You could also mix the LF units so both would have ML and place them on the flanks of your army to get side shots at the BW. I think there is a lot of ways to skin this cat; it'll just take some practice to figure out! Make sure you post how your future games go! dchmp Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220186-ork-battleforce/#findComment-2628611 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Task Force Gauntlet Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Use Razorbacks is their "Stronos" cofiguration, those'll kill Nobz, battle wagons, and anything else he throws at you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220186-ork-battleforce/#findComment-2628799 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladislao Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 I ve been an ork player for some time, a quite successiful one, so i think i know the solution. You have to spoil they'r weakness. 1) The nob mobs are EXTREMELY vulnerable to str10 weapond, and they depend on they warboss.. so try to pack them: a vindicator can be a good gamble, and your wolf lord on thunderwolf... give him the saga of the bear amd a fist, so he will be able to istant kill the war boss without being insta killed. Also the dreddy can be usefull here, is supported 2) Lack of fire: this means that, once they are on foot, will have no way to pop your transport unless they charge... so you will be able to charge what you want in the nex turn 3) There is an easy way to make a mattlewagon burn... an it is, shot them in the flank! You can achieve it in 2 ways, use some land speeder or try to flank them with a rhyno, or a razzorback 4)jotww can bring havoc in the mobs too Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220186-ork-battleforce/#findComment-2629062 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Id take 2 squadrons of Typhoons, flank with them, and take those nice side armor shots to pop the battlewagons. Setup with GHs and maybe some WG in cover, and prep to receive the charge. Hittem as hard as I can as they close, and then mop up in CC. I find the tactic scales well up through 2k. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220186-ork-battleforce/#findComment-2629186 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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