chaplainmikey Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Hi, So i recently finished reading A Thousand Sons and was hoping someone could answer a question i had regarding the Librarians and the verdict the Emperor gives at the council of Nikea. As we know at the end of the council the Emperor decrees that 'no legion will maintain a Librarius department.All its warriors and instructors must reurn to thier battle companies and never agin use thier psychic powers' We also heard that not all the legions employed Librarians,some being falt out against the idea such as the Death Guard. Now i haven't really read much of the background regarding the Librarians,but if all the above happened then how is it that in the 'mordern' era(40K) pretty much every chapter employs librarians? Apologies if this has come up before or if the thread is in an inappropriate place. Cheers, Mike. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220191-regarding-librarians/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Ciaphas Cain Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Don't worry about it Mike. The topic has come up before but it wouldn't be the internet if we didn't discuss a topic at least twice. As far as the situation with the Librarians go.. It pretty much comes down to "We don't know". No one really has any idea as to why Librarians are around in 40k given the Council of Nikea. The general consensus is that the best guess is that the Edict was repealed at some point in the future. Hope that helps, and I wish I could come up with a more definitive answer for you (And myself, i'd like to know the deal too!) -Chase Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220191-regarding-librarians/#findComment-2628197 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 In the original fluff, only sorcery was banned, so librarians were good to go. Unfortunately, the book changed the wording and now we have the plot hole you've pointed out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220191-regarding-librarians/#findComment-2628370 Share on other sites More sharing options...
XKhalilX Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Malachi, now to clarify for myself and others, sorcery is gaining/using powers that are not sprung from the mind but from warp entities and pacts with demons whereas a psyker/librarian is gaining/using powers that springforth from the mind of particular individual? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220191-regarding-librarians/#findComment-2628399 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Beats me. I'm not sure if it's ever been specified just what the difference is, I just know that there is one. Although you're probably right. It's all warp related, it's probably just about how you use it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220191-regarding-librarians/#findComment-2628416 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 From (an admittedly warped) perspective the fact that the Edict of Nikea became repealed could in some way be connected with the founding of the Grey Knights and the fact that each and every single one of them has psychic potential to a greater or less extent. As for how that comes about in actuality, I have no idea. One theory I have is that eventually someone will take notice of how Euphrati Keeler managed to withstand a daemon with the help of an astropath. Either that or the Emperor in His divine wisdom imparts some of his knowledge of the universe on his death bed( or death seat would be more appropriate) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220191-regarding-librarians/#findComment-2628422 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I'm pretty sure the only difference between "psychic power/Librarian" and "sorcery/Sorcerer" is what the Inquisition says is okay and what they don't. Anyways, we still have lots of Heresy left to tell. It's possible that the Librarian mutation becomes more wide-spread following the Emperor's enthronement. Or that the loss of a psyker as powerful as the Emperor necessitated the more general use of psychic abilities throughout the galaxy to compensate. That's two possibilities, I'm sure there are more. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220191-regarding-librarians/#findComment-2628426 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Malachi, now to clarify for myself and others, sorcery is gaining/using powers that are not sprung from the mind but from warp entities and pacts with demons whereas a psyker/librarian is gaining/using powers that springforth from the mind of particular individual? thats pretty accurate. a very easy way to answer it is that sorcery is a learned subject, psykers are naturally born. a psyker can become a sorcerer by making pacts with warp entities (and enhauncing his power). WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220191-regarding-librarians/#findComment-2628436 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Malachi, now to clarify for myself and others, sorcery is gaining/using powers that are not sprung from the mind but from warp entities and pacts with demons whereas a psyker/librarian is gaining/using powers that springforth from the mind of particular individual? thats pretty accurate. a very easy way to answer it is that sorcery is a learned subject, psykers are naturally born. Except that natural-born psykers are routinely executed by the Ordo Hereticus for being sorcerers, even if they never studied anything and their power sprung up spontaneously. Even Librarians are a barely-tolerated mutation. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220191-regarding-librarians/#findComment-2628450 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lorne Walkier Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 From (an admittedly warped) perspective the fact that the Edict of Nikea became repealed could in some way be connected with the founding of the Grey Knights and the fact that each and every single one of them has psychic potential to a greater or less extent. As for how that comes about in actuality, I have no idea. /agree. It is connected to the Founding of the Grey Knights. Garro is tasked by Malcador to round up former Liberians from across the Legions, both Loyal and Traitor. Later 8 Astartes from Traitor Legions, who had their talents repressed, are taken to the Emperor and then go on to form the Grey Knights. The remaining Loyal ones i think bring back Liberians to the Legions. I think they all learn new things that make the whole psyker marine more safe. Why they all wear blue is still open question. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220191-regarding-librarians/#findComment-2628516 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Malachi, now to clarify for myself and others, sorcery is gaining/using powers that are not sprung from the mind but from warp entities and pacts with demons whereas a psyker/librarian is gaining/using powers that springforth from the mind of particular individual? thats pretty accurate. a very easy way to answer it is that sorcery is a learned subject, psykers are naturally born. Except that natural-born psykers are routinely executed by the Ordo Hereticus for being sorcerers, even if they never studied anything and their power sprung up spontaneously. Even Librarians are a barely-tolerated mutation. yes, my bad. i see that a blinded, biased, closed mind inquisitor is going to spend the time to separate psykers from sorcerers... or just label them whatever he chooses and roast them which one seems more likely? WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220191-regarding-librarians/#findComment-2628569 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee265 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 they all wear blue so the rest of the legion pays attention more in case of possesion. Then bolt round to the head. Actually its just a designator of there job Like chaplians in black techs in rust red, and apothacaries in white. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220191-regarding-librarians/#findComment-2628741 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrion Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Dictionary definition of sorcery; emphasis mine the art, practices, or spells of a person who is supposed to exercise supernatural powers through the aid of evil spirits; black magic; witchery Now for 'psychic' 1. of or pertaining to the human soul or mind; mental ( opposed to physical). 2. Psychology . pertaining to or noting mental phenomena. 3. outside of natural or scientific knowledge; spiritual. 4. of or pertaining to some apparently nonphysical force or agency: psychic research; psychic phenomena. 5. sensitive to influences or forces of a nonphysical or supernatural nature. So, psykers are natural, sorcerers are taught. Not only are sorcerers taught, but they helped by evil spirits, or daemons. It's really the same thing, but as Librarians are naturally psychic they can therefore be supervised (controlled) by their betters, whilst Sorcerers are loose cannons who feed off the warp. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220191-regarding-librarians/#findComment-2631725 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigger-than-Jesus Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 IIRC, the Ultras had a librarius division, and where in favour of continuing to use librarians. And who wrote the codex astartes but good 'ol papa smurf. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220191-regarding-librarians/#findComment-2631736 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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