"Counts as" Gabriel Seth

[pate]

How would you feel about a 1500p army being led by a character named, say, Force Commander Pateis whom counts as gabriel seth. I love Ba but I've been struggling to find a hq to that I like, and I really love the rules of gabriel Seth, but I don't like the Flesh Tearers. I was thinking that a strike force wouldn't necissarly have to be commandeered by a captain, reclusiarch or librarian. I mean there's like 30 man on the table, they could be lead by an appointed force commander. So say 30 men led by a "force commander" that counts as gabriel seth, does it bring vomit to ytou mouth or what do you think?

[Demoulius]

counts as is all right in my book :tu: go for it man

 

generally its encouraged btw, so long as its clear to your opponent what your model is :)

[jimbo1701]

I've actually been thinking of making a character along similar lines, who's a blood angel champion of sorts, exceptionally skilled with a blade and embodying the finest aspects of a blood angel i.e. handsome, noble features, long blonde hair and exceptionally ornate armour. Think of him as a 'good' Lucius the eternal, except he's not officially a company captain, more he goes where he's needed and fights best alone. Now I have a proper Dante model I'm gonna chop up the one I made form sanguard bits and add a rapier from the sigvald kit as a start.

 

Sorry for rambling, but yes, I think it's a perfectly good idea and could easily be adapted for BA fluff. Let us know how you get on.

[Captain Artemis]

I've also been thinking by using the "counts as" thing for my Red Knights skirmish group. Yes, I like to play Skirsmish games, as I have found some rules.

And Gabriel Seth seems like an intresting hero indeed. As he wields a HUGE chainsword.

[Plague Angel]

It's perfectly in spirit of the hobby!

 

Codex Blood Angels, page 81, "Blood Angels and other chapters":

 

This army list is based first and foremost around the Blood Angels, but can also be used to collect an army based around one of their successor chapters. Use the army list on the following pages and paint your miniatures using one of the colour schemes shown in this book (or create the colours and heraldry yourself).

 

This should not prevent you from using one of the Blood Angels special characters (or indeed from using Gabriel Seth, a Flesh Tearers character, alongside a Blood Angels army). They can still be used in the same army, representing the common occurrence of different chapters fighting alongside one another. Alternatively, you can use the model and rules of a named character to represent a mighty hero of a different chapter — for example, using the rules and model for Captain Tycho as a Blood Drinkers Captain, or of a Space Marine chapter of your own design — you just need to come up with a new name.

 

This is a perfect way to personalize your army — just make sure your opponent is aware of what everything counts as before the beginning of the game to prevent confusion during the battle.

 

If your opponent doesn't think you should do this, they are breaking the rules. ;)

[jimbo1701]

Just to show you, here's my seth inspired model awaiting undercoat if you were looking for inspiration for a conversion rather than just using the seth model.

 

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t286/jimbo1701/warseer/IMG_0084.jpg

[AngelOfDeathXIII]

That looks like a great model! When I started reading this post I was to suggest you just use the Seth-model as a Captain but now.. DON'T This one is amazing!

[Justin2008]

that is a pretty neat model ya have their, however gabriel seth does not have an angelus boltgun, so that gun on the model would not be wysiwyg.

 

However very nice model :cry:

[jimbo1701]

Actually, I just count it as a bolt pistol on the assumption that it doesn't come with the angelus shells. Fudged explanation but it'll do. :cry:

[JamesI]

Using a named character as someone else is perfectly fine in our codex. I use Astorath the Girm as the Angels Vermillion Chapter Master (needs a name though) almost every game.

 

Actually, I just count it as a bolt pistol on the assumption that it doesn't come with the angelus shells. Fudged explanation but it'll do. :D

I do the same thing with my Astorath using an angelus bolter as a bolt pistol. I think there is a model inthe codex that did the same thing (some home made captain or sergeant).

[Morticon]

How would you feel about a 1500p army being led by a character named, say, Force Commander Pateis whom counts as gabriel seth. I love Ba but I've been struggling to find a hq to that I like, and I really love the rules of gabriel Seth, but I don't like the Flesh Tearers. I was thinking that a strike force wouldn't necissarly have to be commandeered by a captain, reclusiarch or librarian. I mean there's like 30 man on the table, they could be lead by an appointed force commander. So say 30 men led by a "force commander" that counts as gabriel seth, does it bring vomit to ytou mouth or what do you think?

 

 

its perfect matey! I do the same thing all the time :) People appreciate the thought that goes into it.

[pate]

I've actually been thinking of making a character along similar lines, who's a blood angel champion of sorts, exceptionally skilled with a blade and embodying the finest aspects of a blood angel i.e. handsome, noble features, long blonde hair and exceptionally ornate armour. Think of him as a 'good' Lucius the eternal, except he's not officially a company captain, more he goes where he's needed and fights best alone. Now I have a proper Dante model I'm gonna chop up the one I made form sanguard bits and add a rapier from the sigvald kit as a start.

 

Sorry for rambling, but yes, I think it's a perfectly good idea and could easily be adapted for BA fluff. Let us know how you get on.

 

Yeah, I mean fluff-wise every single engagement couldn't possibly be led by a captain, librarian or reclusiarch. There's not like there's lot of them around, My strike force consisting of 30 or so marines, less even, would probably be part of a greater battle or stratetic move and therefor it would even be unlikely for it to be led by a high-ranking officer. More viable that it was led by a senior sgt or whatnot. Whom would have to be a "counts as" to fit with the rules.

 

It's perfectly in spirit of the hobby!

 

Codex Blood Angels, page 81, "Blood Angels and other chapters":

 

This army list is based first and foremost around the Blood Angels, but can also be used to collect an army based around one of their successor chapters. Use the army list on the following pages and paint your miniatures using one of the colour schemes shown in this book (or create the colours and heraldry yourself).

 

This should not prevent you from using one of the Blood Angels special characters (or indeed from using Gabriel Seth, a Flesh Tearers character, alongside a Blood Angels army). They can still be used in the same army, representing the common occurrence of different chapters fighting alongside one another. Alternatively, you can use the model and rules of a named character to represent a mighty hero of a different chapter — for example, using the rules and model for Captain Tycho as a Blood Drinkers Captain, or of a Space Marine chapter of your own design — you just need to come up with a new name.

 

This is a perfect way to personalize your army — just make sure your opponent is aware of what everything counts as before the beginning of the game to prevent confusion during the battle.

 

If your opponent doesn't think you should do this, they are breaking the rules. :D

 

I shall definetely remember that:)

 

Thank you all for the very positive feedback:) Last and not the least I shall use Gabriel Seth as "Force Commander Pateis", or if anyone has a suggestion for a more apporpiate title that would be appriciated aswell:) And I will be using the current model, which I find awesome. I'd have to do some filing and bitz-adding to make him BA and not Flesh Tearers though, but from what I can tell it wont be any mayor issues.

[Justin2008]

I got all the BA special characters in my army, all with different names for my own chapter lol.

 

Asto - Hades

Dante - Zeus

Corbulo - Ganymedes

Librarian - Chronus

 

etc ^_^

 

Go for it

[Plague Angel]

Dante - Zeus

Corbulo - Ganymedes

 

Bad thoughts, bad thoughts!

 

But actually, Ganymede is a very interesting name for a Sanguinary Priest, especially a Corbulo counts-as. Red Grail... cup-bearer to the gods... hm. Very interesting indeed.

[pate]

I was more sort of wondering what an apropiate title would be for someone that leads say 30 Marines towards a particular objective of an ongoing battle. Or the like. In my mind I've been starting to put together some fluff about my HQ character Pateis counts as "Gabriel Seth". I've been pondering a long the lines that he's a senior Sgt. Perhaps one of the few (since it's according to the codex is practically unheard of) that has turned down the offer to join the Honour Guard, for some reason I would have to come up with later. Maybe because he rather spends his time where the fighting is the thickest rather than baby-sitting the captain while he's out and about. Anywho, he's still extremely competent, since he uses the rules of Gabriel Seth. So he's an extinguished fighter, the captain has enough trust in him to let him lead operations. Bottom Line: Force Commander sounds a bit grand, gimme some help here:)

[Quixus]

Codex Blood Angels, page 81, "Blood Angels and other chapters":

 

This army list is based first and foremost around the Blood Angels, but can also be used to collect an army based around one of their successor chapters. Use the army list on the following pages and paint your miniatures using one of the colour schemes shown in this book (or create the colours and heraldry yourself).

 

This should not prevent you from using one of the Blood Angels special characters (or indeed from using Gabriel Seth, a Flesh Tearers character, alongside a Blood Angels army). They can still be used in the same army, representing the common occurrence of different chapters fighting alongside one another. Alternatively, you can use the model and rules of a named character to represent a mighty hero of a different chapter — for example, using the rules and model for Captain Tycho as a Blood Drinkers Captain, or of a Space Marine chapter of your own design — you just need to come up with a new name.

 

This is a perfect way to personalize your army — just make sure your opponent is aware of what everything counts as before the beginning of the game to prevent confusion during the battle.

 

If your opponent doesn't think you should do this, they are breaking the rules. :cuss

Actually that's not so clear. Since Warhammer 40K is a permissive rule set GW only says you may use the model and paint it in BA or FT colors (depending on character) to represent the named characters lent to your chapter or paint the standard model differently to represent a different character with the same rules as the named one. It does not say that you may kitbash/sculpt a model to represent a named character. :D :P

[/End Rules lawyering]

Just kidding no sane person would object to a kitbashed Seth or Count-As Seth.

[jimbo1701]

I was more sort of wondering what an apropiate title would be for someone that leads say 30 Marines towards a particular objective of an ongoing battle. Or the like. In my mind I've been starting to put together some fluff about my HQ character Pateis counts as "Gabriel Seth". I've been pondering a long the lines that he's a senior Sgt. Perhaps one of the few (since it's according to the codex is practically unheard of) that has turned down the offer to join the Honour Guard, for some reason I would have to come up with later. Maybe because he rather spends his time where the fighting is the thickest rather than baby-sitting the captain while he's out and about. Anywho, he's still extremely competent, since he uses the rules of Gabriel Seth. So he's an extinguished fighter, the captain has enough trust in him to let him lead operations. Bottom Line: Force Commander sounds a bit grand, gimme some help here:)

 

 

Hmm, Blood................. usually works for the BAs, though in this case I'm tempted to harken back to the RT days and call him Lieutenant.

[Justin2008]

I got many captains names in my greek named list, such as jason, perseus, achilles, etc

 

If you like mythology, find a name from there, there are loads to choose from lol

 

:devil:

[pate]

Hmm, Blood................. usually works for the BAs, though in this case I'm tempted to harken back to the RT days and call him Lieutenant.

 

Yes, something like that! THe problem is that I've read most of the heresy books and some other litterature and never have I've stumbled upon a space marine that hasn't been refered to as either brother, captain or sgt. In terms of rank that is (excluding chaplains, librarians and the such). Seems to me that they have a bit of gap in their chain of command:P Lieutenant would be nice though. We're getting close, but still no cigar!

[jimbo1701]

Hmm, so to continue along that path, I've named the sergeant of my first squad (who's a homage to the second ed starter box art) as being a colour sergeant. This is an actual rank, defined by either long service of particluar displays of courage. (according to wiki anyway) Due to the rather extravagant paint scheme of the 2nd ed guy he's based on, it does tend to fit. In terms of my companys fluff, he's the guy who takes command in the absence of any other ranking officers, just as C:SM mentions.

 

Just a thought to consider for a title maybe. Here's an old pic of the now finished chappie:

 

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t286/jimbo1701/ba027.jpg

[pate]

Color, interesting! Could you point me in the direction of said wiki?

[Corby]

Hmm, so to continue along that path, I've named the sergeant of my first squad (who's a homage to the second ed starter box art) as being a colour sergeant. This is an actual rank, defined by either long service of particluar displays of courage. (according to wiki anyway) Due to the rather extravagant paint scheme of the 2nd ed guy he's based on, it does tend to fit. In terms of my companys fluff, he's the guy who takes command in the absence of any other ranking officers, just as C:SM mentions.

 

Just a thought to consider for a title maybe. Here's an old pic of the now finished chappie:

 

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t286/jimbo1701/ba027.jpg

 

 

Dam. That Second Ed box was what got me into 40k. I'm all nostalgic now.

 

10/10 for the Mini.

[jimbo1701]

Sure, here ya go:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colour_Sergeant

 

@ Corby, glad you like it - I too bought that set as my first 40k dealing way back when.

[pate]

Veery interesting, we might have found a cigar gentlemen. I'm not sure hos well it fits with BA though, Hmmm. More suggestions welcome:) Perhaps "Honoured Sgt" would be mord in line with BA, since basically (from what I understood) That's where Colour Sgt hails from, the honour carrying the flag and what not.

 

Just a little edit, nice mini:) I'll be adding my first LCP wip soon, consisting of half of my 10man assult squad. They're the firs Blood Angels I've painted though so I've been struggling a bit to get the red to cover properly (laziness rather than anything else). Next batch should be a lot better though cause I bought a spray gun, sorry for offT

[Vodunius]

Hmm, Blood................. usually works for the BAs, though in this case I'm tempted to harken back to the RT days and call him Lieutenant.

 

Yes, something like that! THe problem is that I've read most of the heresy books and some other litterature and never have I've stumbled upon a space marine that hasn't been refered to as either brother, captain or sgt. In terms of rank that is (excluding chaplains, librarians and the such). Seems to me that they have a bit of gap in their chain of command:P Lieutenant would be nice though. We're getting close, but still no cigar!

 

Lieutenant was a bonafide rank once upon a time (in fact, they were mandatory in the full RT Marine army list):

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r155/khromash/RT_RankBadges.jpg

 

They haven't been mentioned since the ranks were streamlined in 2nd edition (at least outside of the 'Heretic Tomes' reprint of Ian Watson's Space Marine) however curiously Forge World has resurrected the rank of Lieutenant-Commander (tho its unclear if it was humility on the part of the marine or a misrememberance on behalf of the author) which also went the way of the dodo along with Lieutenant.