Gealgain Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 I recently purchased the kabuki models Templar knight (which begs to be converted to lion el'jonson) and I was wondering what people thought of using inquisitor lord karazamov's rules and stats to count as his rules and stats. I've talked this over wth some players at my LGS, and while it would be legal, and they would play against it, brought up 2 points. 1. A gross perversion of the current fluff 2. The same ruleset would be better used as the salamanders primarch. he's not dead and went missing on his own accord. Has a multi-melta and all of the gear minus the heavy flamer. Any thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220232-return-of-the-lion/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azoriel Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 I just took a look at the model and WOW - you don't even need to do any real "converting", just paint it and it will be the Lion! :woot: Ruleswise, any inquisitor would be a weak stand-in for the Lion; the strength and toughness would be too low. (Plus he's got a sword!) If you really wanted to simulate a primarch, you'll need something like Marneus Calgar, Abaddon, or a demon prince - and, even then, you'll probably get complaints that your approximation is on the weak side. If you want something that's legally compatible with a Dark Angels army, I'd go with Grey Knight Grand Master rules and call him a very powerful space marine hero (it would still be too weak to be considered the Lion). Or maybe you could treat him as a Sanginor-type entity, a psychic echo of Lion El'Johnson's consciousness still wanting to lead his space marines even as his body convalesces; call him "the Dark Knight" perhaps? (Not exactly Dark Angelish... Perhaps he's leading a company that got lost in the warp centuries ago. Or maybe they're all Fallen who think that they've been given a chance to redeem themselves. Or some obscure successor chapter who doesn't see regular contact with the rest of the legion. I dunno, just something to take them outside of the DA's normal structure.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220232-return-of-the-lion/#findComment-2628646 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azoriel Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Ah, it would seem I failed to read what you wrote (was looking at the wrong inquisitor lord - haha!). Karamazov would be weak for WS and BS - for that reason, I'd still go with the "psychic echo" thing. (Or maybe he could be a primarch clone made from forbidden technology, which is why he sucks at fighting now. I think I'd prefer the psychic echo idea to this, though.) The model may not have a multi-melta, but you could just include a servitor or watcher that carries it for him when he's not firing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220232-return-of-the-lion/#findComment-2628655 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Styphus Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Play it as a Venerable Dreadnought with DCCW and Plasma Cannon. When anyone complains about WYSIWYG, tell them that what they see beyond what you can get, and that the helmet has plasma eyes. Whatever you do with it, that model would make for a great centerpiece. It's the only model that has a lion shoulderpad that doesn't make me want to gouge my eyes out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220232-return-of-the-lion/#findComment-2628671 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Darius Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Back during one of Games Workshops summer campaigns, they put out scenarios to allow people to redo some of the Horus Heresy battles at some of the FOGS. One of the battles was Russ vs Magnus. Another was the Lion vs Luther. AND THEY HAD STATS!!! Well I have the scenario info and thus I have the Lions stats. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220232-return-of-the-lion/#findComment-2628682 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 I also own that model and it is amazing. My problem is the same; I havent painted him up yet due to lack of decent rules to represent such an obvious rendition of the Lion. I do like the GKGM idea, although unfortunately that will only be legal for another couple months. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220232-return-of-the-lion/#findComment-2628687 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freman Bloodglaive Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Awesome model. Just house rule it. I'd say use Daemon Prince stats, give him 2+ armour and a 4+ invulnerable. Run him at about 200 points. If you want to give him extra rules, say unlocking terminators and bikes as troops add another 50 points. Basically as long as you price it accordingly (in other words make it more expensive than you'd expect to pay normally) you'll be okay. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220232-return-of-the-lion/#findComment-2628693 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grotsmasha Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Sorry couldn't resist, Point 2 in the first reply, The Lion isn't dead either, carried off alive by the Watchers...... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220232-return-of-the-lion/#findComment-2629644 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HsojVvad Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Sorry couldn't resist, Point 2 in the first reply, The Lion isn't dead either, carried off alive by the Watchers...... Well according to 4th edtion fluff, we don't have a clue. For the longest time, I thought he was still alive just caught up in the warp because he was taken away. This from me starting 4th edition and not knowing any better at the time. So for those who don't know any better, I say why not? Now what I don't understand is, you want rules to represent him. Would you be mixing 2 codicies together or house ruling them? I always say, use one codex fo rwhat ever you play when against strangers. But if you are playing with friends, or a group, and enough warning is given in what you plan on doing, then why not, go ahead. Also a pic would have been nice. I have no idea what mini you are talking about. Also for the person who has the Stats, why not share them? ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220232-return-of-the-lion/#findComment-2629722 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gealgain Posted January 23, 2011 Author Share Posted January 23, 2011 Sorry couldn't resist, Point 2 in the first reply, The Lion isn't dead either, carried off alive by the Watchers...... Well according to 4th edtion fluff, we don't have a clue. For the longest time, I thought he was still alive just caught up in the warp because he was taken away. This from me starting 4th edition and not knowing any better at the time. So for those who don't know any better, I say why not? Now what I don't understand is, you want rules to represent him. Would you be mixing 2 codicies together or house ruling them? I always say, use one codex fo rwhat ever you play when against strangers. But if you are playing with friends, or a group, and enough warning is given in what you plan on doing, then why not, go ahead. Also a pic would have been nice. I have no idea what mini you are talking about. Also for the person who has the Stats, why not share them? :whistling: "by the order of the eternal emperor of mankind" is the rule I was going to use to let me use karamazov/ lion legally. This rule has been used numerous times before me. As far as the images go, a little google-Fu would be needed to find the image of the model. http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2010/...'jonson.jpg that is the same model, but not my paintjob. I will try to post my finished work, hopefully at the head of my finished force. (I have a quarter of the full deathwing, ravenwing, and I'm currently working on the 3rd company.) I'm interested in using the monstrous creature rule for him. He has t5, 2+ sv and 4+ inv. His s6 would show his great strength. I too thought about the "low" ws and bs, and my justification for that is he was still weak and recovering. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220232-return-of-the-lion/#findComment-2629788 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freman Bloodglaive Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Well they are a legal set of rules. You can even say that the multi-melta is just his sidearm. http://www.kabukimodels.com/phpThumb/phpThumb.php?src=/upload/oryginal/568515530.jpg&w=200 All in all a very nice model. Unfortunately Kabuki only have 3 left, and my budget doesn't stretch to 40 euros plus postage. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220232-return-of-the-lion/#findComment-2629824 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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