1st game against newly faq's DeathWing

[Hear da Lamentation]

Played new DW for the 1st time 2 days ago. Good friend of mine, he is one of the 4 of us friends who regularly play each other at home.

 

His army

 

Belial w/ TWC

 

Ven Dread w/ Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod

Ven Dread w/ Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod

 

Deathwing w/ 4xTH/SS, CML, Apothecary

Deathwing w/ 4xTH/SS + CML

Deathwing w/ 4xTH/SS + CML

Deathwing w/ 4xTH/SS + CML

 

My army

 

RunePriest MH,JoWW

8xGrey Hunters mg,ws,motw

1xWolf Guard cmg,pf

rhino

 

9xGrey Hunters mg,ws,motw

1xWolf Guard cmg,pf

Rhino

 

10xGrey Hunters 2xpg

rhino

 

5xLongFangs (4xml, 1xlc) + pack leader

4xLongFangs (3xml,1xpc) + pack leader

 

Wolf Lord Magma (RA, TH/SS, Saga of Bear, bike)

3 x SwiftClaw Bikers, mg

1 x attackbike (mm)

1 x WolfGuard (pf,cmg,bike)

 

 

I've never played an army like this - and this was the 1st time he had played anything like this as well - so it was going to be a learning experience for the both of us.

 

Game was SpearHead Annihalation

0

He won first turn and deployed 3 Deathwing squads riding the 12' to centre line, podding the Dreads and Belial + FNP Squad in reserves. Fearing the effects of 10 AP3 ML, I hid the Rhinos and bikes behind a hill in the back of my deployment zone, with my long fangs poking around the sides in cover.

 

He Deep Struck his Dreads into my deployment zone (came in round 2 and 4) and teleported his HQ termie unit close to my front line. He then left the rest of his termies on the back field trying to wipe out my LF with ML. This was his big mistake (as it turned out) and one I am sure he won't be making again.

 

Turn 1 and 2 saw a few of my LF killed. I brought up 2 rhino's of GH, disembarked and shot at his HQ termie unit. 1LF unit shot at same target, the other had no LOS to it, and so shot at a different unit. I was using the ML templates because he was quite grouped. With ++3 save, more hits outweights the Str8 bonus. Despite him failing every FNP roll, it took a massive amount of fire to kill 4 termies. Ended with Belial and 1 TH/SS termie getting into combat with my GH pack (ws,motw,mg,pf etc). End result, I instakilled Belial with fistage, but saw 7 GH killed and the whole unit routed off the table, still leaving 1TH/SS termie ! NASTY!

 

As it was Kill Points, I kept behind the hill, taking out drop pods and ven dreads to up my kill points while keeping out of sight of those CML. BikerLord went against a ven dread and was tarpitted for the rest of the game. The number of 6's I rolled for penetrate, only to have to roll again - and then get a 1 was ridiculous.

 

Other high and low points, my biker unit (with lord having split off) melta'd the drop pod out of existance, but had popped out of cover to do so. Shot with 4CML, they were wiped out 1st round out of cover. Looking back, I should have turbo'd them behind a building to prevent LOS - then shot the droppod next round (it wasn't going anywhere.) Still learning with the bikers. They are sooo fragile against stuff negating armour save - I need to be more careful with them.

 

RP hitting the termies with MH was good (17str3 attacks killed 2 of them at one point) ! And slowing them was great. Even Jaws isn't oo bad a statistical risk, even I4 means a 1 in 3 chance of killing one (which is better than normal with these guys).

 

Good game (for me) - I won 5-3. But if he had moved those 3 remaining TH/SS termies up towards my lines from round 1, I would have been in serious risk of being tabled. Castling up is sure as hell not going to work against multiple termie squads.

 

Would love to hear any thoughts (good or bad.)

[nurglez]

good to hear heh.

 

I play logan wing and can see some similarities between them and deathwing (like, no wai).

And you are right, if he had moved everything up it would have been harder for you, termies die alone but with support do a lot better heh.

 

I've only used bikers once, and haven't really give them a chance. I might one day but we shall see :)

 

and what point value is this game? looks 1500ish?

[Hear da Lamentation]

Yeah, spot on Nurglez, 1500points

[Bartali]

Good game (for me) - I won 5-3. But if he had moved those 3 remaining TH/SS termies up towards my lines from round 1, I would have been in serious risk of being tabled. Castling up is sure as hell not going to work against multiple termie squads.

 

As you know, my default mode is to run away ! Makes a change having an army that can hurt people up close, will take a bit of getting used too.

 

Re your bikes - I still think you'll be better of with Thunderwolves or Wolf Lord/Fenrisian Wolf combo. Maybe some of Space Wolf players can chip in with their thoughts ?

[Wysten]

Aye, his hesitence to move his termies forwards really were his downfall that time. If your gonna drop pod something, you want everything to come down pretty close together, deviding his army for no real gain backfired on him when he did not follow up. It was a good success though. ^^

 

As for the bikers, I don't think they offer anything vs missles really, Thunder Wolf is out and out best for making rock units with Wolf Lords. If they ever get exposed to missles or become a valid target, they die pretty much. Could be just that game mind you, need something to draw the attention away from the Long Fangs, our real special weapon.

[Hear da Lamentation]

Re your bikes - I still think you'll be better of with Thunderwolves or Wolf Lord/Fenrisian Wolf combo. Maybe some of Space Wolf players can chip in with their thoughts ?

 

I'm up for hearing advice on that too.

 

On a positive note with the bikers, they are much faster moving than the TWC and so can take advantage of cover more (which I should have done with them that game) - but also you can turbo them for a 24" move, which gives them cover save of 3+.

 

These 2 units are comparable points wise

 

(3 bikers, meltagun)+(attackbike, multimelta)+(WG, pf/cmg)

6 wounds, 4(5)T, 4S, 3+save,decent shootyness and 17 s4 attacks on charge, 5 S8 powerfist attacks.

 

3 Thunderwolf cavalry (TH), (SS,CCW), (basic)

6 wounds, 5T, 5S, 3+save, one with 3++. No shootiness, but 10 s5 attacks on charge (rending) and 5 s10 TH attacks.

 

Against missiles, the TWC can't be instakilled - but if you take as an example the 5 wounds you did against my bikers Bartali (which killed all 5, doing 6 wounds by instakiling the attack bike) - I would have placed 2 wounds on the SS wolf, 2 on the basic and 1 on the TH wolf. This would then have probably taken 1 wound off the SS wolf, killed the basic and took 1 wound off the TH wolf. I'm then left with 2 thunderwolves on 1 wound each. Better of course ..... but they have been significantly weakened.

 

thoughts anyone?

[Bartali]

Both units have different roles - TWC are the Space Wolves elite cc unit, whilst your bikers are a mobile melta unit.

I don't think you need any more melta as the melta on grey hunters is plenty. What you do need though is an elite cc unit to deal with other elite cc units/MCs etc, as I think Grey Hunters will only get you so far in that respect (the lack of invulnerable save really hurts them).

 

I'm no Space Wolf player though....

[Hear da Lamentation]

I hear what you are saying about an elite cc unit, I sometimes feel the same way.

 

In the Bikers defence though, they are much more than a mobile melta unit. With 4 attacks each on the charge, 17 attacks and 3powerfist attacks (mis-type in post above) they are no slouch in combat (added to the fact they are relentless, so they will have shot in 10 tl bolters and the HB/MM attack before combat). Their real weakness though is to things which negate armour save - very similarly to the GH (for example in virtually every game I played them in they have been wiped out. However, their incredibly fast move has won at least 3 games for me.)

[nurglez]

one thing I love about logan wing, is that they ignore ap3 weps, I hated my friend's leman russ with a passion (normal army is death guard, plague marine squads just fold under battle cannon shots), and with termies I can just shrug off ap3 shots, like battle cannons, krak missiles, its so liberating!

 

I've never used bikes, but have used some TWC along side my logan wing and they are pretty nice, though generally they haven't been that great in combat for me, but they are nice and fast, and can sweeping advance (last game my twc lord chased down abaddon, as he was with a squad of terminators and those ran from combat hah!).

[saphius]

Yea this army is insane. I've been testing my hand with the 40+ DW we has sitting around and wow... I've nearly tabled my opponent in every game. It's really easy to play... Walk forward and shoot. Game over.

 

It gets really bad when you run it with some RW bikers that scout and have homers. Those dreads are no good in this list really.

 

Best things wolves have to take it out are plasma and Wolf Claws on TWC models. Storm shields yourself as well. Missile lists are horrible against this. Razorback spam has a chance though but still is rough.

[Hear da Lamentation]

He's no fan of bikers, I reckon he may go with landspeeders though.

 

I had a plasma squad and plasma cannon in my army when we played. To be honest, though the plasma guns wound easier, he still gets his 3++ save against them, so they are little better than a normal bolter against marines. (admittedly it does negate fnp). The plasma cannon was similar - only a bit better than a the missile launcher. That 3++ just makes most missile shots a matter of number of wounds caused. For a while I found the template missle launchers better than the str8 because they were getting more wounds (until he realised and spaced out.)

 

Although I realise mathshammer is nothing to rely on (randomness comes in clumps) I'm wondering what you think of the following thought. . .

With some Very rough maths, looking at one full, decked out unit of GH against one th/ss termie unit (similar points) 18 rapid fire bolters and 2 meltas are going to get approx 1.2 wounds. You are better off firing pistols and assaulting, because 1 wound loses 2 attacks, but leaves 4 termies to get 4 additional attacks on the charge.

 

 

 

I would think the trick is to bring multiple units against individual termy units, shooting the hell out of them, then assaulting en mass. But as his termy unit (with CML) costs less than a decked out GH squad, this could be tricky. Maneuverability is the key obviously, but with either kill points or 2 objective missions he is bound to keep at least 2 units together.