Captain Zamiel Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Hi guys, I have been a long time lurker but this is my first real post. :) Okay so I need some help with my DIY Chapter. I have a color scheme, white with red trim and assorted pieces, and a bit of fluff already thought up involving a marine who forms a close friendship with a newly instated Inquisitor that extends throughout both of their careers. I want to this to be kind of similar to the Marine's Errant and their Rogue Trader house. Also they will have an odd trait picked up from their recruiting population. They keep their faces covered at all times and their faces are only to be seen upon death. I don't really know how to work this into their culture but it seems cool... Also they prefer swords over other melee weapons. Edit: Also I would like them to have a slightly larger psyker portion than regular marines... The thing I would like to get first is a Chapter name. Something that sprang to mind was Veiled Swords. I like it but it seems a little forced. Any thoughts? Possible ideas? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220336-need-some-help-need-critiquing/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 One Marine is not a whole chapter. A friendship with an Inquisitor sounds more like the makings of a short story than the start of an IA, at least to me. Which is not to say that said short story couldn't be about your own original chapter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220336-need-some-help-need-critiquing/#findComment-2630009 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Zamiel Posted January 23, 2011 Author Share Posted January 23, 2011 Ah I guess I should clarify. This friendship would involve large portions of the chapter at various points (like massive Inquisitorial attacks/ actions) and this particular marine would be my Captain Zamiel (ala my screen name) so he is gonna be a big deal to me and to the chapter. :P Also just throwing out an idea i had (earlier today) what if after the Inquisitor dies he wills his whole estate to the chapter, including some heavily modified vehicles he made for the Marines or perhaps some vehicles he seized as an Inquisitor. Basically I want blood angel vehicles without making another Blood Angels successor chapter. :P And I am already making a Stormraven out of a valkrie. And you also caught me. I am working on the short story as of now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220336-need-some-help-need-critiquing/#findComment-2630021 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Also just throwing out an idea i had (earlier today) what if after the Inquisitor dies he wills his whole estate to the chapter, No. including some heavily modified vehicles he made for the Marines or perhaps some vehicles he seized as an Inquisitor. No. Basically I want blood angel vehicles without making another Blood Angels successor chapter. :P No. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220336-need-some-help-need-critiquing/#findComment-2630039 Share on other sites More sharing options...
soddinnutter Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 When an Inquisitor dies his stuff is returned to the Inquisition. Because it's theirs. No Inquisitor actually owns stuff as an individual. They requisition stuff for their job. IF they are recruiting from one world then having slightly more psykers is plausible if there are more psykers in the worlds gene-pool. Getting along well with the Inquisition as an institution is fine. But Inquisitors are not encouraged to make friends outside of the ordos except for the purpose of doing their jobs. Same goes for Marines. they are both insular institutions that have never particularly approved of each other. The covering up of the faces could be because a marine from the point of view of society is dead. They produce no offspring to contribute to the gene-pool, they stop turning up in legal documentation, they form no friendships, they are excluded from normal religious practices and they aren't part of any industry or mundane job description. They are all dead in all but name. There is no way to get Lucifer Pattern engines without becoming a Blood Angel. Not even the Mechanicus know how to make those. Why not just use the Angels Sanguine? they are an instance where GW has called dibs on a name and never done much with it. They have some sort of terrible dark secret (darker than the Black Rage and Red Thirst), never show their faces outside of the Fortress, seem to get along well with everyone and may have access to the fancy toys of the Sanguine Bloodline. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Angels_Sanguine Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220336-need-some-help-need-critiquing/#findComment-2630141 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 When an Inquisitor dies his stuff is returned to the Inquisition. Because it's theirs. No Inquisitor actually owns stuff as an individual. They requisition stuff for their job. Inquisitors can actually own personal property though. Also, Inquisitors are not the type of people you generally call "friend". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220336-need-some-help-need-critiquing/#findComment-2630158 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Angels Sanguine could work as long as the Inquisition aspect was dropped. I can't imagine the two have much to do with each other. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220336-need-some-help-need-critiquing/#findComment-2630162 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrata Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 If you want to use BA rules for this chapter, you can, there is nothing stopping you. It doesn't mean you need to write it into your chapter to make you feel more justified in using the rules. Fluff and Rules are two distinct groups, and whilst they may suggest things to one another, they don't always need to agree. Don't force something into your background so you can justify using a rule set, and don't not use a rule set because you can't justify it in your background. Simples. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220336-need-some-help-need-critiquing/#findComment-2630172 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightrawenII Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 If you want to use BA rules for this chapter, you can, there is nothing stopping you. It doesn't mean you need to write it into your chapter to make you feel more justified in using the rules. Fluff and Rules are two distinct groups, and whilst they may suggest things to one another, they don't always need to agree. Don't force something into your background so you can justify using a rule set, and don't not use a rule set because you can't justify it in your background. Simples. This. If you are writing your Chapter background as the justification of the table-top, then in the most than average cases in comes off like the literary equivalent of having Space Wolves and Blood Angels wearing thick spectacles with fake moustaches attached, putting on dodgy accents.(Thanks Ace, :( .) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220336-need-some-help-need-critiquing/#findComment-2630202 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 wearing thick spectacles with fake moustaches attached, putting on dodgy accents. Did they "come to fix the boiler"...? :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220336-need-some-help-need-critiquing/#findComment-2630212 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishida Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 First, before you begin to write up your army's IA, or even begin to outline one, you should always, always give your army a name and some sense of history or a quirk. This applies to such "nameless" forces as Necrons and Tyranids and it should go double or triple for such "personality" driven armies like the Space Marines. For example, my Necrons are not "just Necrons," they are the 'Harvesters of Bone' and have a distrubing and inexplicable habit of stealing the bones of saints from Imperial Shrines and their guass weaponry strips flesh, cloth, and armor, but leaves the pristine white skeletons of their victims behind. Then they gather them up and vanish. That's not enough to base a 3,000 word Index Astartes type article on. But it makes them memorable... to me and my freinds anyway. Second, although I suspect many here may disagree, I think you should pick a table-top Codex to work with, especially if you plan on using them in for gaming. You'll want to have a general idea of want you'll want to use and then explain your choices. But I think you should also limit your choice of units... Maybe your Eldar craftworld has no Aspect Warriors, or only uses one kind. Maybe your Imperial Guard army doesn’t have access to Leman Russ-type tanks and only uses Chimera-chasis types. Maybe your Space Marines specialize in fighting inside urban areas and don't use jumppacks. But with Marines you should always try explain why you want to use anything other than the "vanilla" Codex: Space Marines. The reason needs to embrace the weaknesses of the amry-list as well as its strengths, otherwise it can smack of "flavor of the month-ism," especially with a Codex that is currently considered the "new hotness." (Although, certain Chapters have always felt like this, across several editions: BA, BT, GK/DH, SW...) Third, if you still feel the need to write an IA, check out the one of the many guides to be found here at B&C. I'd drop the Inquistor altogether. I'd figure out why they cover they faces. I'd figure out why they suffer from the Dark Rage or other, mechanically identical curse. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220336-need-some-help-need-critiquing/#findComment-2630309 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Second, although I suspect many here may disagree, I think you should pick a table-top Codex to work with, especially if you plan on using them in for gaming. Much like the hobby itself, chapter creation accomplishes different goals for different people. Some people just love writing. Some people just love fleshing out the setting. A Codex isn't important for such purposes. Others are trying to flesh out the table-top models they already have, or are planning their next army. In this case, however, I agree with Nightrawen: approaching the project from a perspective of "I want an excuse to use this army's exclusive unit without actually playing that army" will only lead to bad writing. Especially since we're talking about one of the most jealously protected STCs in the galaxy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220336-need-some-help-need-critiquing/#findComment-2630736 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Zamiel Posted January 23, 2011 Author Share Posted January 23, 2011 Okay, first of all thanks for all the comments and critique! Its great and it doesn't hurt as bad as everyone made it out to be! Haha :huh: So I am gonna drop the inquisitor for the IA. While I think it would be cool it doesn't really work... oh well. Still gonna write the short story though. As for just making them Angels Sanguine. I am against this. While the AS are cool and I like them I don't think I could do them justice. Painting or fluffwise. Plus I would like to make my own you know? Okay so I have my quirk set up.The quirk is that they always have their faces covered. This is due to the culture of their home planet Helysian. The Helysians believe that the only people that should see their true faces are their parents and their God, the Emperor. I don't really know how to work out this particular social idea but I am working on it. But what I really needed help with right now was the name of the chapter... So does the Veiled Swords sound good or does it seem too forced? Any suggestions? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220336-need-some-help-need-critiquing/#findComment-2630755 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 So I am gonna drop the inquisitor for the IA. While I think it would be cool it doesn't really work... oh well. Still gonna write the short story though. Go for it. A friendship between two men can work. An alliance between two organizations not known for seeing eye-to-eye is a bit more troublesome. As for just making them Angels Sanguine. I am against this. While the AS are cool and I like them I don't think I could do them justice. Painting or fluffwise. Plus I would like to make my own you know? I do. Okay so I have my quirk set up.The quirk is that they always have their faces covered. This is due to the culture of their home planet Helysian. The Helysians believe that the only people that should see their true faces are their parents and their God, the Emperor. I don't really know how to work out this particular social idea but I am working on it. That's not a bad idea for a planet culture (what about spouses?), but how would the Marines fit into the planetary cult? But what I really needed help with right now was the name of the chapter...So does the Veiled Swords sound good or does it seem too forced? Any suggestions? Veiled Swords isn't bad, but it sounds more like a fantasy name than a sci-fi one to me. Whether that's a pro or con is up to you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220336-need-some-help-need-critiquing/#findComment-2630767 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishida Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Although my former Women's Studies 201 professor would hit me for saying this, "Veil" and "Veiled" is a very feminine word. As an article of clothing, veils are worn almost exclusively by women. From the Assyrians to the Myceans to the Saxons, and today most notably among Muslims and western Brides, well... "Veil" just sounds odd for a group of hyper-masucline Astartes. Sigmund Freud would probably have a field day with the name "Veiled Swords." :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220336-need-some-help-need-critiquing/#findComment-2630823 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Although my former Women's Studies 201 professor would hit me for saying this, "Veil" and "Veiled" is a very feminine word. Every poetry professor in the world would stand to defend you, though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220336-need-some-help-need-critiquing/#findComment-2630848 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Zamiel Posted January 24, 2011 Author Share Posted January 24, 2011 Lol I had not made that particular connection Ishida. As for the whole masked society, I think that while spouses are important I believe that in their society only those who are creators of a person (their parents and their God) shall see their face. Also when a person is undertaking the act of a lifetime, such as creating the masterpiece of their lives, or fighting their greatest battle, they will sometimes shed their mask to show the endeavor the proper honor.This eventually diffuses into the Chapter through their recruits. So while they do not see the Emperor as a god any longer, they still see him as their creator and the epitome of Humanity. Thus when they die and go to his side to fight the Daemons they shed their masks and engage in their own masterpiece. So anyways how about Masked Swords? or Masked Blades? I think that sounds more masculine. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220336-need-some-help-need-critiquing/#findComment-2631048 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 The Order of the Hidden Blades Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220336-need-some-help-need-critiquing/#findComment-2631053 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Zamiel Posted January 24, 2011 Author Share Posted January 24, 2011 Hidden Blades sounds to much like an assassin group to me... I don't want them to necessarily be seen as assassins just as warriors who hide their faces... Which 9 times out of 10 an assassin does... crud... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220336-need-some-help-need-critiquing/#findComment-2631059 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Hidden Blades sounds to much like an assassin group to me... I don't want them to necessarily be seen as assassins just as warriors who hide their faces... Which 9 times out of 10 an assassin does... crud... But that's only because of the over abundance of ninja-related "information" availabe through Western mediums. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220336-need-some-help-need-critiquing/#findComment-2631061 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Zamiel Posted January 24, 2011 Author Share Posted January 24, 2011 But it also isn't like their blades or swords are hidden. They are out there, they got bling, and they want people to see them and be afraid of them. But they just got a thing about showing their faces. they like masks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220336-need-some-help-need-critiquing/#findComment-2631064 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishida Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 This society is starting to sound, in my mind's eye, almost like the Scorpion Clan from Legend of the Five Rings if they converted to an Islamic-influenced Imperial Cult... which, to me, is an incredibly cool idea. But all of the discussion about "veiled," "hidden," and/or "masked," is all begging the question: does it have to be in their name in the first place? The Ultramarines are not named the Ultraspartans; the Thousand Sons are not named the Thousand Pharohs or Space Mummies; the White Scars are not named the Golden Horde... Okay, sure, the Blood Angels, Space Wolves, and a few others are rather on the nose *cough*Corax*cough* but there is some more depth there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220336-need-some-help-need-critiquing/#findComment-2631069 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 As for the whole masked society, I think that while spouses are important I believe that in their society only those who are creators of a person (their parents and their God) shall see their face. Do Imperials believe the Emperor creates them? Oh well, it doesn't matter as a rule if that's what these people believe. If spouses are exempt for not being "creators" though, it sounds more mystical... so I would suggest that even only one parent is allowed "creator"-status. Either the father, for a more patriarchal, divine-leaning society, or the mother for a more pagan-natural society. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220336-need-some-help-need-critiquing/#findComment-2631078 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Zamiel Posted January 24, 2011 Author Share Posted January 24, 2011 HOLY CRAP FINALLY SOMEONE ELSE WHO EVEN KNOWS ABOUT THAT SERIES! But yes, the Scorpion Clan has been a big influence on me. They were so great and their Leader (I can't remember his name) was awesome. And while the UltraRomans(totally not spartans) do have a name that doesn't deal with short Italians kicking butt, they are blue aka marine. But I completely see your point. But if not Masked in the name then I think a color or an animal... I like Crimson (I am at the University of Alabama, ROLL TIDE!) and also i Like Roks. Like the giant eagles. And as the top hunters on Helysian are massive birds of prey (think hawks the size of whale sharks that fly, eat people, and have talons 7 feet long) So Crimson Swords? Rok Blades? Crimson Roks? Edit: or is it Rocs? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220336-need-some-help-need-critiquing/#findComment-2631085 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 It's Rocs. And that's a great word, you should use it. Don't know about Crimson though... it could work. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220336-need-some-help-need-critiquing/#findComment-2631096 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.