Abaddon dies pathetically, after running away from combat...

[Vlâdvar The Destroyer]

Today in a game I decided to give Abaddon a try out, having him count at my Warsmith Vlâdvar and I want to rant about is how he died really pathetically. Basically, he & his 2 remaining terminator body guard were in combat against the enemy... as were my Khorne Berzerkers, Now I lost the combat by 6, which meant I had to take 6 armour saves on my Berzerkers... surely that means I would have to do the same with Abaddon right? No, he losses his fearless rule as he joined a squad, so i have to make a moral check with -6 & what happens? I run, a 275 pt character has to RUN & then guess what happens... I fail the initiative test & he is killed.... :huh:? A 275 pt character with 4 wounds & eternal warrior dies in such a stupid way...

 

Wouldn't it make more sense for Abaddon to take the 6 rolls & just his terminators run off?

 

What really gets me is some Space Wolves or Space Marine Characters can give bonuses to a squad, like fearless or stubborn... why can't Abaddon? I mean he costs enough points right?

 

The other thing I don't get is Space Marine Terminators get "I shall know no fear" but Chaos Terminators get nothing like that...

 

Sorry if this has been posted before

[bertboxer]

what were you up against that khorne berzerkers, csm termies, and abaddon lost by 6?

[Brother Nihm]

Sorry to hear it but it is a classic case of why our Special Characters are crap (apart from Khârn, who is only decent),

 

I mean it is RIGHT THERE in the lore and in the previous Codex for Abaddon to surround himself with his Terminator Elite, but on the tabletop = not viable to run him with Terminators.

 

Hell, even with Terminators he lacks a reliable delivery system, 5 seat 'Raiders my blue ceramite behind.

He does nothing for the army, plus he has a chance to whack himself in the face..

But wait, because it is Chaos it HAS to be random, right?

 

*foams at the mouth*

 

 

 

There, all better now.

[Gree]

I've found sucess using Abaddon with Berzerkers (It has precedent in the fluff, check out Mackan) and I've found him to be pretty tolerable and effective for me. it's more effective than running a Termie bodyguard really. Plus if I absolutely need to I can hold objectives and the Zerkers still hit hard if Abaddon hits himself.

[Lady_Canoness]

I second Bert:

 

What the *swearing removed* were you fighting that could beat Abaddon, terminators, AND berzerkers by SIX??? I've never lost a combat that badly with ANYTHING in a Chaos list and not been wiped completely!

 

Though yes, the idea of a 'leader' giving his Ld or stubborn - but not fearless - to a squad is insane.

 

Edit by Insane Psychopath - Watch the language, this is a family friendly forum

[the jeske]

What the <beep> were you fighting that could beat Abaddon, terminators, AND berzerkers by SIX???

8-10 TH/SS termis +an HQ or a unit nid death start.

 

As the runing goes. Dont use terminators as assault units , they suck at it[not enough A , not fearless , no buff characters and TH/SS] and dont use a 275 HQ too , because it costs like 2 DP and 2 DPS do a lot more dmg and take a lot more too[and they dont run]. Next time you think your getting the urge to play with a non DP HQ switch codex.

[Master Of Malfeasance X]

I would have guessed Nobz/Biker Nobz. I agree with the OP that simply not enough thought went into C:CSM. The Ork codex is ample proof that you can have a wacky random army that uses its wacky randomness to win rather than lose. Maybe they went too far the other direction, though--ork 'animosity' is pretty pathetic when you consider that it is possible for entire warbands to self-destruct Necron-style, but nope! Every Ork is its very own nuclear command unit slaved mind, body and soul to the Warboss' every whim.

 

Now look at C:CSM! Deadly veterans of a thousand campaigns; hardened, bitter warriors with often centuries of experience dying wholesale to better equipped space wolves with wonky banners and bull ^_^ wolves that for some reason swing thunderhammers for their riders and then whole 4 ton wolf benefits from the 'tiny, personal forcefield' in a storm shield. Crazy fast blood angels who HAVE BETTER ZERKERS THAN ZERKERS have (Death Company--same statline + rage and feel no pain for one point LESS. Oh yeah, they also have access to a bottomless armory.) and don't even get me started on possessed who lose out to B) ing GUARD PENAL LEGION. They have fast vehicles because they 'just don't care what the Adeptus Mechanicus thinks.' Oh, really? So the traitor legions miraculously respect the rules set down by the all-powerful Omnissiah? Land Raiders built in a time when such technology was perfectly understood? Nope; all you get are lascannons, even though both land raider variants AND POWER OF THE MACHINE SPIRIT both reflect legion traits and heresy history more appropriately.

 

Then there are the rules:

Abaddon shouldn't even be fearless, he should have some sort of marneus calgar-esque rule where he gets to choose what he's going to do instead of GW choosing for him to fail regardless of your wishes. Here is supposed to be literally the most powerful, badass, bitter leader of space marines in the game and he can't even command his own weapon, let alone his own squad.

 

Chosen--the 'veterans' of Chaos; the guys who are in line to be champions and chaos lords soon, who are described as having 'centuries of experience' have one attack each and weapon skill 4. You know who else has 'centuries of experience'? Space Marine captains. Veterans in loyalist chapters, who often have 'decades of experience' have 2 attacks and often really sweet special rules to reflect their 'veteran-ness.' Chosen have the ability to drive onto the wrong side of the table in their rhino OR, if you're feeling exceptionally suicidal, can infiltrate ahead of your own army so they can be charged by thunderwolves or flamestormed into oblivion, or shot to death by the 12-53 rockets that every space marine army seems to tote now. Oh, you wanted to field missile launchers? Too bad they're twice the cost of the loyalists. Speaking above of banners, where did all of those go? There used to be some awesome banners (heh, there used to be some awesome lot of things) that, apparently were all thrown on fires when sorcerers discovered the lash of submission.

 

I could go on, but you get the idea. Sorry for the counter-rant.

[Frater Uriah]

I would have guessed Nobz/Biker Nobz. I agree with the OP that simply not enough thought went into C:CSM. The Ork codex is ample proof that you can have a wacky random army that uses its wacky randomness to win rather than lose. Maybe they went too far the other direction, though--ork 'animosity' is pretty pathetic when you consider that it is possible for entire warbands to self-destruct Necron-style, but nope! Every Ork is its very own nuclear command unit slaved mind, body and soul to the Warboss' every whim.

 

Now look at C:CSM! Deadly veterans of a thousand campaigns; hardened, bitter warriors with often centuries of experience dying wholesale to better equipped space wolves with wonky banners and bull ^_^ wolves that for some reason swing thunderhammers for their riders and then whole 4 ton wolf benefits from the 'tiny, personal forcefield' in a storm shield. Crazy fast blood angels who HAVE BETTER ZERKERS THAN ZERKERS have (Death Company--same statline + rage and feel no pain for one point LESS. Oh yeah, they also have access to a bottomless armory.) and don't even get me started on possessed who lose out to B) ing GUARD PENAL LEGION. They have fast vehicles because they 'just don't care what the Adeptus Mechanicus thinks.' Oh, really? So the traitor legions miraculously respect the rules set down by the all-powerful Omnissiah? Land Raiders built in a time when such technology was perfectly understood? Nope; all you get are lascannons, even though both land raider variants AND POWER OF THE MACHINE SPIRIT both reflect legion traits and heresy history more appropriately.

 

Then there are the rules:

Abaddon shouldn't even be fearless, he should have some sort of marneus calgar-esque rule where he gets to choose what he's going to do instead of GW choosing for him to fail regardless of your wishes. Here is supposed to be literally the most powerful, badass, bitter leader of space marines in the game and he can't even command his own weapon, let alone his own squad.

 

Chosen--the 'veterans' of Chaos; the guys who are in line to be champions and chaos lords soon, who are described as having 'centuries of experience' have one attack each and weapon skill 4. You know who else has 'centuries of experience'? Space Marine captains. Veterans in loyalist chapters, who often have 'decades of experience' have 2 attacks and often really sweet special rules to reflect their 'veteran-ness.' Chosen have the ability to drive onto the wrong side of the table in their rhino OR, if you're feeling exceptionally suicidal, can infiltrate ahead of your own army so they can be charged by thunderwolves or flamestormed into oblivion, or shot to death by the 12-53 rockets that every space marine army seems to tote now. Oh, you wanted to field missile launchers? Too bad they're twice the cost of the loyalists. Speaking above of banners, where did all of those go? There used to be some awesome banners (heh, there used to be some awesome lot of things) that, apparently were all thrown on fires when sorcerers discovered the lash of submission.

 

I could go on, but you get the idea. Sorry for the counter-rant.

Amen.

[bap2703]

I would have guessed Nobz/Biker Nobz. I agree with the OP that simply not enough thought went into C:CSM. The Ork codex is ample proof that you can have a wacky random army that uses its wacky randomness to win rather than lose. Maybe they went too far the other direction, though--ork 'animosity' is pretty pathetic when you consider that it is possible for entire warbands to self-destruct Necron-style, but nope! Every Ork is its very own nuclear command unit slaved mind, body and soul to the Warboss' every whim.

 

Now look at C:CSM! Deadly veterans of a thousand campaigns; hardened, bitter warriors with often centuries of experience dying wholesale to better equipped space wolves with wonky banners and bull :P wolves that for some reason swing thunderhammers for their riders and then whole 4 ton wolf benefits from the 'tiny, personal forcefield' in a storm shield. Crazy fast blood angels who HAVE BETTER ZERKERS THAN ZERKERS have (Death Company--same statline + rage and feel no pain for one point LESS. Oh yeah, they also have access to a bottomless armory.) and don't even get me started on possessed who lose out to :cuss ing GUARD PENAL LEGION. They have fast vehicles because they 'just don't care what the Adeptus Mechanicus thinks.' Oh, really? So the traitor legions miraculously respect the rules set down by the all-powerful Omnissiah? Land Raiders built in a time when such technology was perfectly understood? Nope; all you get are lascannons, even though both land raider variants AND POWER OF THE MACHINE SPIRIT both reflect legion traits and heresy history more appropriately.

 

Then there are the rules:

Abaddon shouldn't even be fearless, he should have some sort of marneus calgar-esque rule where he gets to choose what he's going to do instead of GW choosing for him to fail regardless of your wishes. Here is supposed to be literally the most powerful, badass, bitter leader of space marines in the game and he can't even command his own weapon, let alone his own squad.

 

Chosen--the 'veterans' of Chaos; the guys who are in line to be champions and chaos lords soon, who are described as having 'centuries of experience' have one attack each and weapon skill 4. You know who else has 'centuries of experience'? Space Marine captains. Veterans in loyalist chapters, who often have 'decades of experience' have 2 attacks and often really sweet special rules to reflect their 'veteran-ness.' Chosen have the ability to drive onto the wrong side of the table in their rhino OR, if you're feeling exceptionally suicidal, can infiltrate ahead of your own army so they can be charged by thunderwolves or flamestormed into oblivion, or shot to death by the 12-53 rockets that every space marine army seems to tote now. Oh, you wanted to field missile launchers? Too bad they're twice the cost of the loyalists. Speaking above of banners, where did all of those go? There used to be some awesome banners (heh, there used to be some awesome lot of things) that, apparently were all thrown on fires when sorcerers discovered the lash of submission.

 

I could go on, but you get the idea. Sorry for the counter-rant.

 

 

Take a break, play dark eldar :D

[Kitchen Knife]

Take a break, play dark eldar :cuss

 

 

And I thought, GW wants us to play some glory smurf... i mean UM and BA :P

[Ashe Darke]

This is what I refer to as peer pressure.

 

'Come on Abaddon, we can't win this'

 

'What? Get back here, stand and fight!'

 

'No way man, we're out of here. You coming?'

 

'...FIIIINE!!'

 

*they flee*

[Alphz]

*foams at the mouth*

 

Massive rant...

 

Oh codex chaos space marines, what did we ever do to deserve you.

[breng77]

Not that it does not suck, but if you are the one charging, make sure to detatch abbadon during the movement phase before you charge, that way he keeps his fearless rules. (or stick him with bezerkers.)

[Captain Idaho]

A true Chaos Marine would have won the Combat! <_<

[Narthecium]

Lesson learned...next time put Abaddon in with berserkers, not terminators. Failing that, give glory of chaos icon to terminators.

 

Sorry to hear that happened. If it makes you feel better, I once shocked a fully loaded tac squad with Vulkan attached to it OFF THE TABLE with an empty rhino.

 

 

I never get tired of telling that story.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

*foams at the mouth*

 

Massive rant...

 

Oh codex chaos space marines, what did we ever do to deserve you.

 

Win. :teehee:

[Orphus]

What really gets me is some Space Wolves or Space Marine Characters can give bonuses to a squad, like fearless or stubborn... why can't Abaddon? I mean he costs enough points right?

That is because we Wolves are filled with awesomeness :lol:...and each Special Character needs a weakness ;)

 

The other thing I don't get is Space Marine Terminators get "I shall know no fear" but Chaos Terminators get nothing like that...

 

That's because Space Marines are the might of the Imperium and are charged with the righteous zeal of protecting mankind!

And they fight in the name of the Emperor!

...while Chaos marines are a little more cowardly as the preach to the Chaos gods who are, on occasion, more than a little fickle with their gift giving...

 

A little something to cheer you up, enjoy! :devil:...:lol:... ;)

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss185/E...donthedes-1.jpg

[Mr. Sandbot]

I would have guessed Nobz/Biker Nobz. I agree with the OP that simply not enough thought went into C:CSM. The Ork codex is ample proof that you can have a wacky random army that uses its wacky randomness to win rather than lose. Maybe they went too far the other direction, though--ork 'animosity' is pretty pathetic when you consider that it is possible for entire warbands to self-destruct Necron-style, but nope! Every Ork is its very own nuclear command unit slaved mind, body and soul to the Warboss' every whim.

 

Now look at C:CSM! Deadly veterans of a thousand campaigns; hardened, bitter warriors with often centuries of experience dying wholesale to better equipped space wolves with wonky banners and bull :devil: wolves that for some reason swing thunderhammers for their riders and then whole 4 ton wolf benefits from the 'tiny, personal forcefield' in a storm shield. Crazy fast blood angels who HAVE BETTER ZERKERS THAN ZERKERS have (Death Company--same statline + rage and feel no pain for one point LESS. Oh yeah, they also have access to a bottomless armory.) and don't even get me started on possessed who lose out to :lol: ing GUARD PENAL LEGION. They have fast vehicles because they 'just don't care what the Adeptus Mechanicus thinks.' Oh, really? So the traitor legions miraculously respect the rules set down by the all-powerful Omnissiah? Land Raiders built in a time when such technology was perfectly understood? Nope; all you get are lascannons, even though both land raider variants AND POWER OF THE MACHINE SPIRIT both reflect legion traits and heresy history more appropriately.

 

Then there are the rules:

Abaddon shouldn't even be fearless, he should have some sort of marneus calgar-esque rule where he gets to choose what he's going to do instead of GW choosing for him to fail regardless of your wishes. Here is supposed to be literally the most powerful, badass, bitter leader of space marines in the game and he can't even command his own weapon, let alone his own squad.

 

Chosen--the 'veterans' of Chaos; the guys who are in line to be champions and chaos lords soon, who are described as having 'centuries of experience' have one attack each and weapon skill 4. You know who else has 'centuries of experience'? Space Marine captains. Veterans in loyalist chapters, who often have 'decades of experience' have 2 attacks and often really sweet special rules to reflect their 'veteran-ness.' Chosen have the ability to drive onto the wrong side of the table in their rhino OR, if you're feeling exceptionally suicidal, can infiltrate ahead of your own army so they can be charged by thunderwolves or flamestormed into oblivion, or shot to death by the 12-53 rockets that every space marine army seems to tote now. Oh, you wanted to field missile launchers? Too bad they're twice the cost of the loyalists. Speaking above of banners, where did all of those go? There used to be some awesome banners (heh, there used to be some awesome lot of things) that, apparently were all thrown on fires when sorcerers discovered the lash of submission.

 

I could go on, but you get the idea. Sorry for the counter-rant.

 

Hopefully they'll fix all of this in the next dex. Hopefully anyway.

[Vlâdvar The Destroyer]

Basiclly what happend was Abaddon & some of his terminators were in combat with some Thunder Wolves & a Wolf Lord, abaddon rolled a 1 for his daemon weapon (typical)... then in the next round of combat, my berzerkers joined in & killed off some Thunder Wolves... then my Bezerkers got charge by 7 wolf guard terminators, I lost 6 Bezerkers & his wolf lord survived 6 wounds from abaddon (T5 & +3 storm shield save)... & my mate didn;t loose any terminators... so I had to take 6 wounds on my 2 reamining Berzkers, the skull champion survived, but abaddon ran off...

 

I would have guessed Nobz/Biker Nobz. I agree with the OP that simply not enough thought went into C:CSM. The Ork codex is ample proof that you can have a wacky random army that uses its wacky randomness to win rather than lose. Maybe they went too far the other direction, though--ork 'animosity' is pretty pathetic when you consider that it is possible for entire warbands to self-destruct Necron-style, but nope! Every Ork is its very own nuclear command unit slaved mind, body and soul to the Warboss' every whim.

 

Now look at C:CSM! Deadly veterans of a thousand campaigns; hardened, bitter warriors with often centuries of experience dying wholesale to better equipped space wolves with wonky banners and bull :cuss wolves that for some reason swing thunderhammers for their riders and then whole 4 ton wolf benefits from the 'tiny, personal forcefield' in a storm shield. Crazy fast blood angels who HAVE BETTER ZERKERS THAN ZERKERS have (Death Company--same statline + rage and feel no pain for one point LESS. Oh yeah, they also have access to a bottomless armory.) and don't even get me started on possessed who lose out to :cuss ing GUARD PENAL LEGION. They have fast vehicles because they 'just don't care what the Adeptus Mechanicus thinks.' Oh, really? So the traitor legions miraculously respect the rules set down by the all-powerful Omnissiah? Land Raiders built in a time when such technology was perfectly understood? Nope; all you get are lascannons, even though both land raider variants AND POWER OF THE MACHINE SPIRIT both reflect legion traits and heresy history more appropriately.

 

Then there are the rules:

Abaddon shouldn't even be fearless, he should have some sort of marneus calgar-esque rule where he gets to choose what he's going to do instead of GW choosing for him to fail regardless of your wishes. Here is supposed to be literally the most powerful, badass, bitter leader of space marines in the game and he can't even command his own weapon, let alone his own squad.

 

Chosen--the 'veterans' of Chaos; the guys who are in line to be champions and chaos lords soon, who are described as having 'centuries of experience' have one attack each and weapon skill 4. You know who else has 'centuries of experience'? Space Marine captains. Veterans in loyalist chapters, who often have 'decades of experience' have 2 attacks and often really sweet special rules to reflect their 'veteran-ness.' Chosen have the ability to drive onto the wrong side of the table in their rhino OR, if you're feeling exceptionally suicidal, can infiltrate ahead of your own army so they can be charged by thunderwolves or flamestormed into oblivion, or shot to death by the 12-53 rockets that every space marine army seems to tote now. Oh, you wanted to field missile launchers? Too bad they're twice the cost of the loyalists. Speaking above of banners, where did all of those go? There used to be some awesome banners (heh, there used to be some awesome lot of things) that, apparently were all thrown on fires when sorcerers discovered the lash of submission.

 

I could go on, but you get the idea. Sorry for the counter-rant.

 

Totally agree with you there! Codex Chaos serviously needs fixing!

 

A little something to cheer you up, enjoy! :devil:...:P... ;)

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss185/E...donthedes-1.jpg

 

:lol: :lol: :lol That is so true

[Solid Zaku]

You ranters watch, the next thing you know, you're going to see CODEX: CHAOS SPACE MARINES by MATT WARD

[Xeonic]

He shouldn't have swept you in a multiple combat if there were fearless units(your skull champ) still engaged. BRB P.40 under disallowed sweeping advances starts with "If a victorious unit is still locked in combat with other units that are not falling back...". Of course this is assuming the unit he swept with was engaged with your berserkers(assuming so because they took combat res losses).

[Lord_Caerolion]

CODEX: CHAOS SPACE MARINES by MATT WARD

 

Oh gods... the horror... the horror!

 

I shudder to think what stats he'd give Abaddon... He's got to one-up Mephiston, after all.

[Zeller]

For the record the DC are more hardcore than WE. Having implants to enhance aggression is one thing but having a genetic flaw that literally transforms you into a furious psychopath with a chance of arbitrary rage is a completely different ball game.

 

It is dumb that the C:CSM don't have oh I don't know...something to show for their vast experience other than the increased Ld because they allegedly "seen some bleep." Considering the heavy use of terminators by the black legion to attack command points maybe Abaddon should eventually get the ability to deep strike terminators with less scatter or something towards the end of making a BL TDA assault something scary.

[Yogi]

This is why you don't play chaos.

 

I wait til they get a good dex. But maybe I never come back to them.

[Boshea]

CODEX: CHAOS SPACE MARINES by MATT WARD

 

Oh gods... the horror... the horror!

 

I shudder to think what stats he'd give Abaddon... He's got to one-up Mephiston, after all.

True, but there is a long list of chaos characters who should be one upping loyalists. Khârn would need to one up Mephiston first. I mean Khârn is supposed to be THE CC character among all space marines, not some psyker space vampire who got over his rage issues. A Psyker should not be one shoting the man who is blessed by the god who hates psykers. Maybe they'll give him both Gorechild and Gorefather since Angron isn't using it.

 

Then there is Ahrihman versus every loyalist psyker.

For the record the DC are more hardcore than WE. Having implants to enhance aggression is one thing but having a genetic flaw that literally transforms you into a furious psychopath with a chance of arbitrary rage is a completely different ball game.

 

It is dumb that the C:CSM don't have oh I don't know...something to show for their vast experience other than the increased Ld because they allegedly "seen some bleep." Considering the heavy use of terminators by the black legion to attack command points maybe Abaddon should eventually get the ability to deep strike terminators with less scatter or something towards the end of making a BL TDA assault something scary.

The only difference between the Red thirst and berzerker augmentation is one is genetic and the other is surgical. The only reason Death company gets more special rules then a berzerker is because the black rage has the magical effect of making Blood Angels into little Sanguinius’. Honestly some of the Blood Angels chapters are a bunch of wanna-be world eaters, mainly Flesh Tearers.

 

Its a given that the next codex should be giving commanders army wide abilities like every other recent codex. Its just hard to predict what many of them would do.