The new FAQ's...

[Wadey13]

I keep reading how people are digging out their Dark Angels armies again or going back to the Codex because these new FAQ's have made them so much better, but I just literally don't see it? I don't see that any massive changes have been made that would satisfy anyone who was really pissed off and thought it was a broken codex? SO can you help me out, I'm only curious, I really cant be arsed with anyone arguing about it, I just want to understand what the biggy is!! Ta :wacko:

[Isiah]

In truth its not that the FAQ has made DA armies (actually not all DA armies) so much better -- it's just made some of them a little more equal :wacko:

 

Cheers

I

[Bartali]

It's made lists with Deathwing on foot as troops a lot more competitive. It's made them more survivable (3++ Storm Shields, FNP in one squad), and given them reliable mech supression fire (2 shot CMLs). This gives lists a solid core which can be built around with other units to field a competitive all comers list.

[FerociousBeast]

When people say they're digging out their old Dark Angel armies, what they reallly mean is that they're digging out their old Deathwing armies. Deathwing has suddenly been catapulted from mid-pack in metagame power-level to quite possibly near the top. We'll see what happens over the next few months as people try out the new capabilities the FAQ offers the Deathwing, but Theoryhammering it out, it looks like Deathwing might just be a top-tier contender.

[krewl]

When people say they're digging out their old Dark Angel armies, what they reallly mean is that they're digging out their old Deathwing armies. Deathwing has suddenly been catapulted from mid-pack in metagame power-level to quite possibly near the top. We'll see what happens over the next few months as people try out the new capabilities the FAQ offers the Deathwing, but Theoryhammering it out, it looks like Deathwing might just be a top-tier contender.

I think this hits the nail on the head.

 

I think my new faq rewrite list will be a contender, deathraven with the main focus on Deathwing will also be an option as well (Not tested or built lists yet.). Although I am not an automatic tournament winner type I play them often enough to think I can judge a list in a codex I know well and I feel Deathwing will bring it now.

 

In short;

- Ravenwing did not get boosted so much,

- Deathwing did get boosted a lot.

- Greenwing is mostly unchanged

[Droma]

- Greenwing is mostly unchanged

 

DA units come in green?

[Brother Nicolas]

I play greenwing if thats what people like to call it. I only have one squad of Deathwing, and I do not have my bikes put together as of yet. The reason I am enjoying this FAQ is becuase it addresses alot of the rules issues that could have come up with when dealing with someone who is about RAW instead of having a good game. I put down the codex due to people and their lawying.

 

 

I have hopes that GW seeing that their over all sales down might realize that they do need to produced cleaner rules set and support it better than the bs they have over the past couple of years. With all their prise increases, things have gotten to the point people are walking into stores to buy stuff, looking at the prize and walking out... maybe if they keep this up, people might bite the bullet and buy that higher prised model.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

When people say they're digging out their old Dark Angel armies, what they reallly mean is that they're digging out their old Deathwing armies. Deathwing has suddenly been catapulted from mid-pack in metagame power-level to quite possibly near the top. We'll see what happens over the next few months as people try out the new capabilities the FAQ offers the Deathwing, but Theoryhammering it out, it looks like Deathwing might just be a top-tier contender.

 

This.

 

Dark Angels' Greenwing was playable as a marine army with fewer models, or alternatively as a marine army, but Deathwing were hit by being worse than conventional terminators for higher cost.

 

Marines still play marine based, and bike based, armies better than Dark Angels. Now however, Deathwing provide the best terminator based army in the game. I think most people will agree, nothing says "Dark Angels" like squads of bone white terminators supported by jet black squadrons of bikes.

[Howloutloud]

The truly sad part is that we weren't worse, we were different. We had a lot of players who saw "hey I can get a ten man squad for 10 pts less and get combat tactics", or "I can take an all bike army and get more bikes for less points"

 

The only things that the vanilla codex had over us was "our" Mortis Dread, and drop pods. They got a bunch of new shinies, but nothing I would feel a need to take. And while I would love to take a Techmarine on a bike (or in terminator armor) I can see the fluff reason they chose not to.

 

It's a sad state of affairs when we are deemed to have the worst codex when really we were on par with the others all along, you just had to be willing to learn a different playstyle.

 

As for the terminators... 15 more base points for a unit that gained fearless, deathwing assault and the ability to mix weaponry? Oh ya, we were horribly hosed there :cuss

[breng77]

It's a sad state of affairs when we are deemed to have the worst codex when really we were on par with the others all along, you just had to be willing to learn a different playstyle.

 

As for the terminators... 15 more base points for a unit that gained fearless, deathwing assault and the ability to mix weaponry? Oh ya, we were horribly hosed there rolleyes.gif

 

We were deemed the worst marine codex, because there was little that we could do competitively, that other codices, could not do Cheaper and or Better. As for the termies, not having the good storm shields hurt quite a bit from a competitive stand point because of the amount of AP 2 or better weapons out there. DA were certainly not unplayable, but you were starting at a disadvantage, and generally had to outplay your opponent who was running a similar build from another marine codex.

 

I also disagree that only the DW got better, Typhoon Speeders for Ravenwing got much better, giving RW a long range support option that it has never really had. The FNP apoth also works in RW and gives you a reason to take a 6 man bike squad for once.

 

And while straight Greenwing did not get much of a boost, that is only if you refuse to run any DW or Rw units in support of your list, something that standard marine players often do (running speeders, or termies, or even bikes)

[Freman Bloodglaive]

I think the beauty of Ravenwing is its slot efficiency.

 

You get 6 bikes which act as troops, one attack bike (which is scoring) which acts like a heavy support unit, and a Land Speeder Tornado (according to the letter of the rules scoring too) which is a fast gunship. That's all in one slot. You can take up to 9 of them (I'd take 6 to save arguing over which ones are scoring and which aren't) in one force organisation chart.

 

The improvement to their Typhoons is a big plus, although they are limited to three unfortunately while Marines and Space Wolves can get nine.

 

Deathwing are much more durable now, and they suffer less than normal marines from what I call the 13 inch problem. That is the problem with normal assault terminators that if they're 13 inches from the enemy they're useless. Deathwing 13 inches from the enemy will still have a couple of storm bolters and a heavy weapon to shoot and do some damage with.

[breng77]

The improvement to their Typhoons is a big plus, although they are limited to three unfortunately while Marines and Space Wolves can get nine.

 

Yeah but with the new FAQ it is good that we were limited to one typhoon per squadron. If we could take 5 cheap typhoons in each fast attack slot that would be disgusting (sure it would be 375 points but 10 missiles per slot!!!, + multi meltas you could get 30 missiles for 1125 points)

[Freman Bloodglaive]

The improvement to their Typhoons is a big plus, although they are limited to three unfortunately while Marines and Space Wolves can get nine.

 

Yeah but with the new FAQ it is good that we were limited to one typhoon per squadron. If we could take 5 cheap typhoons in each fast attack slot that would be disgusting (sure it would be 375 points but 10 missiles per slot!!!, + multi meltas you could get 30 missiles for 1125 points)

 

True, but were they paying the same as normal marines I'd say that 5 a slot wasn't a bad thing. It makes them more shooty (for a cost) which is one of the things the Unforgiven project want to see.

 

Actually I'd be interested in knowing if anyone does take 5 model squadrons of Land Speeders, even if it is with heavy bolters. 15 medium strength shots a turn from fast platforms does look fairly good. I think multi-meltas would be better fielded in squadrons of one or two given that you seldom need 5 melta shots to deal with one tank.

[Master Toddius]

From what I've read its a DW FAQ, IMHO. It makes me motivated to get the DW rolling again. For the DA community though - ANY good news on upgrades is a heaven sent. Because the morale is just horrible. Almost 4 years of an increasingly painful headache is now getting some relief... ^_^