The Deathwatch, by any other rules

[Grendellus]

I have been away from the hobby for a few years and recently found my way back.

 

I have seen countless references to C:SM Sternguard being used for Deathwatch marines. Is this typically how they are used? Allied with some other main marine force?

 

Would it be improper to use any other SM codex as a "multi kill team" Deathwatch force? I.e., perhaps they are being led by a Blood Angels' Commander and the squad sergeants are from Blood Angel successor chapters? This would explain their BA fighting style. No?

 

Let me know what you think. Thanks!

[breng77]

I actually think using the SW codex using the Wolf Guard army (with logan) could make a decent Deathwatch army.

[JaqTaar]

The strength of the Deathwatch is, at least in part, the fact that it is drawn from several chapters with different fighting styles. Having all the leaders come from the same chapter (or successor chapters) would counter that and the Deathwatch commanders probably try to avoid such a situation.

 

Also in the case of the chapters whose Marines may be sent into a rage or (more or less) negatively affected by the geneseed in some other way, the Marines chosen for service in the Deathwatch would be those that have learnt to control these afflictions.

 

That's why I would not use the BA codex.

 

Concerning Space Wolves as Deathwach, you may want to read this thread:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=212673

[Growler67]

With the exception of the few Chapter Approved pages, the best other resource for Rules would be the SternGuard. The use of specialized ammo and such that is not present in any other Codex being the primary reason. It is possible, though I do not know how likely, that the soon to be released Grey Knights Codex may have something on the Deathwatch within it. Fingers crossed but I'm not holding my breath.

 

In general, the Deathwatch are utilized in specialized missions which is why they are deployed as relatively small sized Kill-Teams. I've not read one instance yet where more than one Kill-Team is deployed to a single location. I suppose that if one can assemble a collective of teams one could field an Army of the Deathwatch but I don't see that being possible or even Stategically or Tactically plausible, fluff wise. The reason is that the Deathwatch are the very best of the Astartes. To assemble a mass of them at one place and time would put into jeopardy their overall function and purpose. If they are overrun or obliterated, their mission purpose within the Ordo Xenos would be crippled at the very least leaving the Ordo dysfunctional until it has time to recover. How could they possibly recover in a timely manner when they are the elite of the elite?

 

It just doesn't make much sence to me that though in numbers they can be considered an Army, it would put into too much risk that they are ever deployed as such. I think their mission purpose backs me up on this. They are based out of and occupy scattered and remote outposts and fortresses. Keeping watch over various sectors and subsectors, able to deploy their Kill-Teams at a moments notice to respond to the Xenos threat. An Inquisitor Lord would be considered truly reckless to devote such a large amount of such a specialized asset as the Deathwatch on a single battlefield.

 

Just my opinion, FWIW. As the saying goes, it's your Army, do what you want. If you can justify it in your home made fluff ta boot, more power to ya.

 

ETA: I stated I've not read about more than one Team being deployed at a single location at any time. This means exactly that. I've not read ALL of everything from GW or the BL. Just that what I have read hasn't included any "multiple Team deployments". Has it ever been done? Perhaps, it is a Fantasy Sci-Fi world set in it's own Universe at some point in time in the future........so take it for what that means to you.

[Grendellus]

Thank you for your comments.

 

As I understand it, Deathwatch...

 

1. does not use leaders and sgts from the same chapter & its successors.

2. has its own unique fighting styles due to its intergration of multiple chapters.

3. is never (rarely) involved in major actions. No full army.

 

I really wanted to see what a full company would look like. I know I could still do it, but I value the opinions of more experienced brethren here. Another voice to this is from the DW RPG. Watch Fortress Erioch, one of the Deathwatch's "big" bases, is said to have no more than 200 marines stationed there. So, unless I do a major defensive battle for WF Erioch, I can't really get away with using them in such large number. Darn!

 

Although trying out the BA & SW 'dexes is still a tempting alternative. I will likely use the C:SM either filling in Inquisitorial equivalents for the non-Deathwatch units, or just have them allied temporarily with another SM chapter.

 

Thanks again. I welcome any further comments if anyone would like to chime in.

[JaqTaar]

As stated in the above-linked discussion there is one instance in the background material where more than a handful of DW marines are deployed: In the Eisenhorn novel Xenos 60 DW marines fight in one battle, though it takes place across an entire planet and with the help of several regiments of Imperial Guard and ends with the (assumed) total extermination of an alien race.

 

In general: Remember that with a universe this big and a timespan this long, there are very few "never happened", but lots of "may have have happened a couple of times" situations.

[Grendellus]

I've seen the Eisenhorn omnibus at my local B&N. I may have to check it out.

 

The SW/DW link is very informative and inspiring.

 

Playing "Chaos' Advocate", one could also say that any larger groups of Deathwatch working together haven't been reported because there have been no survivors left to report it! :)

 

Even the reports of only 200 DW at Erioch Fortress could be falsified. Everything you know is a lie, etc. Inquisitors are a fiddly, crafty bunch, aren't they?

 

I'm building my first 5 DW for the LPC 2011, so I have some time to see where these ideas will go. The plastic whispers its sweet promises, yet I still resist.

[Growler67]

Q for Grendellus:

Have you read much about the DeathWatch or have you only cursory knowledge that the DeathWatch exists and are trying to translate that into a playabe Army?

 

In general, Fluff is one realm and gameplay is another. They rarely match up directly in a 1:1 ratio.

 

If you are interested from a fluff persepctive, I would recommend these (compiled by B&C member Vash113):

 

In any case here's the list of official sources I compiled:

 

*Index Astartes: Deathwatch

*Warrior Brood

*Warrior Coven (currently reading)

Dawn of War

Warriors of Ultramar

Xenos

Scourge the Heretic

Innocence Proves Nothing

*Heroes of the Space Marines: Headhunted

*Chapter Approved 2003

How to Paint Space Marines

Codex: Necrons

The Inquisition

*Deathwatch RPG Core Rulebook

WD 269

 

* = indicates that I own and have read or am currently reading.

 

There are many other sources I have come accross in doing my own research as well. I have a list of links from the Librarium here and other websites too.

 

If you are more interested in gameplay, you can field whatever you wish. If you play in tournaments, then you may come accross some "fluff lawyers" but as long as you use a Codex and the models are WYSIWYG you should be fine.

[Grendellus]

I would consider my knowledge as cursory. I have read the Kill-Team & Index Astartes articles from White Dwarf. Having been out of the hobby for a few years, I don't have a regular playing group. I would like to build the army so it could be played legally, which is one reason why I was considering the possibility of using alternate codexes. Hobbywise, I am mostly building it for the sake of building it.

 

I have a few friends who enjoy RPGs, and I was considering the Dw:RPG. I could always use the models I build for that.

 

Thanks for the fluff list. I agree, fluff rarely matches play. I've had similar problems when a few RPGers wanted some anime characters translated to a superhero game. Visual action media has about the same problem when translating to the tabletop and dice.

[Growler67]

I am by no means a scholar in the realm of GW nor the BL. However, if I can provide any assitance I would be happy to do so.

 

BTW,FWIW, I have played Spac Wolves for some time but haven't in several years. I am and have mostly been into the model building/customizing since I've been doing plastic kits for over 3 decades. I have recently gotten into writing and even more so the more I read. Just sayin'.

[Growler67]

Also, keep in mind that "Allies" have been authorized for some time now, in gameplay terms. This means that DeathWatch Kill-Teams could augment a force of Imperial assets be they Astartes, Guard or whatever. That would certainly provide a colorful, if nothing else, Army to be deployed onto any table top battlfield. IG, Sororitas, Grey Knights, or a favored Chapter of the Astartes as a core force suplimented with a Kill-Team or two. Perhaps even under the overall command of an Inquisitor Lord to counter the threat of whatever enemy or opponent is to be faced.

 

The problematic part would be in being well versed enough in the differant Codices required to play all you have deployed correctly and to the greatest advantage. This is why many,myself included, advocating the Sternguard Rules as a direct translation for a Deathwatch ruleset. It streamlines the process and as much as it is possible, provides the base corelation to those Rules for the DeathWatch from the Chapter Approved pages without having to have ALL the books as an on hand reference when playing.