Fallen Angels is unfortunately more accurate

[Chendals]

Greetings Brothers

 

Ive been watching these forums for a long time and have gratefully stolen much advice and ideas so firstly, thank you all. Always an interesting read.

 

So my gripe ( sorry a first post gripe ) is with the rules regarding jump infantry and dangerous terrain. The way my group plays and i believe to be correct is whenever you land in/move from difficult terrain with jump infantry, its a dangerous terrain test. Meaning each model rolls and on a 1, hundreds of hears of martial and tactical training are ended simply because the guy tripped on a brick or loose stone.

 

More specifically the part i dislike is its model specific and as "luck" dictates it's always my power weapon wielding Sergeant or Sang Priest that stubs their toe and doesn't want to play anymore.

 

My question is am i playing the rules correctly in that its model specific and not allocated wounds? Anyone else find this frustrating considering the amount of tests required especially with objectives generally set in terrain? Any tactics or thoughts that might help?

 

Love my fast jump pack army. Pity they have a knack for eating dirt long before combat.

[DV8]

A model that "dies" and is "removed" from a game doesn't represent a death in the fluff sense. It could simply mean the soldier was incapacitated to the point where they could no longer contribute or take part in the battle, or falling behind far enough or being separated from the unit whereupon they can't impact the battle. Keep in mind that a single game of Warhammer 40K is meant to represent mere moments of real time combat.

 

Insofar as the actual ruling, IIRC the wounds are allocated like shooting, but I don't have my rulebook handy and will have to double check that later. One could always simply choose to "walk" their jump infantry in (rolling difficult terrain and moving like normal infantry), thereby bypassing the dangerous terrain checks. Likewise, you can walk your jump infantry out of terrain.

 

 

 

DV8

[TheMouth]

Insofar as the actual ruling, IIRC the wounds are allocated like shooting, but I don't have my rulebook handy and will have to double check that later. One could always simply choose to "walk" their jump infantry in (rolling difficult terrain and moving like normal infantry), thereby bypassing the dangerous terrain checks. Likewise, you can walk your jump infantry out of terrain.

 

 

 

DV8

 

 

this.

 

You can land near difficult terrain ( dangerous if you landed in it) but then charge the unit in it with out a test.

[Chendals]

I don't play competitively yet so i guess some rules my friendly group may be doing wrong. I was unaware you could choose to move normally and that they are allocated like shooting. We did look the rules up but must have been mistaken.

 

Tis good news and thank you for the relies. Makes a lot more sense this way.

 

*strapping on the jump pack again*

[Demoulius]

dangerous terrain tests are shooting? i always roll for characters and special weapons seperatly...seems the gentlemens way to do it IMHO :devil:

[Mezkh]

You had it right for the Wound allocation first time,

 

But walking in and out is definately a good tactic where appropriate.

[Leonaides]

Or just dont start/end your move in terrain? That usually does the trick for me (tho 1 time my friends made me take a test for moving over a high wall terrain piece - Librarian went face-first into it. Wasnt till after the game that I had the opportunity to sit them down and point out the rule properly...)

[BOBMAKENZIE]

You had it right for the Wound allocation first time,

 

Yeah but you're talking about a rule that 1) references the Shooting section on how to deal with saves and wounds. And 2) uses the inclusive 'every'

 

As in roll a d6 for every model.

As opposed to roll a d6 for each model.

 

So how is that right apart from it being the sort of commonality of past editions?

[vonny]

I'm not sure on the dangerous terrain per model question, it could go either way. Never had it come up for me yet.

 

As for moving the jumppackers: you oculd indeed move over the terrain, landing in clear terrain. Thereby you use the rule of jump packs to "move over all other models and all terrain freely" (page 52 of the rulebook). Only the beginning and ending of the move counts for purposes of checking if they need to make a dangerous terrain test.

however, as page 52 also states "..can use their jump packs... This is optional and they can choose to move as normal infantry if they wish".

 

The assault move is always like normal infantry - just on foot, and thus difficult terrain doesn't become dangerous terrain for them

[Blindhamster]

for what it's worth, I've always walked my jump infantry if terrain is involved. Better to move a little slower, avoid casualties and make use of the coversaves available.

[dswanick]

...

So my gripe ( sorry a first post gripe ) is with the rules regarding jump infantry and dangerous terrain. The way my group plays and i believe to be correct is whenever you land in/move from difficult terrain with jump infantry, its a dangerous terrain test. Meaning each model rolls and on a 1, hundreds of hears of martial and tactical training are ended simply because the guy tripped on a brick or loose stone.

 

More specifically the part i dislike is its model specific and as "luck" dictates it's always my power weapon wielding Sergeant or Sang Priest that stubs their toe and doesn't want to play anymore.

 

My question is am i playing the rules correctly in that its model specific and not allocated wounds? Anyone else find this frustrating considering the amount of tests required especially with objectives generally set in terrain? Any tactics or thoughts that might help?

...

DANGEROUS TERRAIN

As mentioned previously, some terrain features will be

dangerous to move through. This is represented by the

dangerous terrain test. Roll a D6 for every model that

has entered, left or moved through one or more areas

of dangerous terrain during its move. On the roll of a

1, the model suffers a wound, with no armour or cover

saves allowed (wounds and saves are explained in the

next section)

Your group is playing it right. Dangerous terrain is per model. I second the above advice to walk Jump Infantry into or out of terrain.

[BOBMAKENZIE]

How do you contend with the fact that before and after your bolded section there are elements that point towards it being done as a group? Theres also a thread on this in the OR forum I believe.

 

Roll a D6 for every model that

has entered, left or moved through one or more areas

of dangerous terrain during its move. On the roll of a

1, the model suffers a wound, with no armour or cover

saves allowed (wounds and saves are explained in the

next section)

 

(The next section being the shooting section where wounds are always assigned to groups and so on)

[DV8]

After re-checking the BRB, specifically:

 

Page 14, under "Dangerous Terrain"

Page 24, under "Remove Casualties"

Page 25, under "Complex Units"

 

While you only have to roll as many dice as for models that physically moved into and/or out of Dangerous Terrain (if only 5 members of a 10 man Assault Squad landed in Dangerous Terrain, you'd only roll 5 dice), any 1's is a wound you must allocate as per normal shooting. You are simply denied the chance to making any sort of Armor or Cover saving throw (note that it doesn't preclude Feel No Pain or Invulnerable Saves).

 

 

DV8

[BOBMAKENZIE]

It now precludes FNP because FNP now has a clause to state and anything which you would not be allowed an armour save against. So True Previously wrong now. :3

[dswanick]

How do you contend with the fact that before and after your bolded section there are elements that point towards it being done as a group? Theres also a thread on this in the OR forum I believe.

Because it says the model, not the unit. The sections to which you refer may, or may not, imply that wounds are allocated, but 'the model' doesn't imply anything, it specifies how the wounds are to be handled

Roll a D6 for every model that

has entered, left or moved through one or more areas

of dangerous terrain during its move. On the roll of a

1, the model suffers a wound, with no armour or cover

saves allowed (wounds and saves are explained in the

next section)

 

(The next section being the shooting section where wounds are always assigned to groups and so on)

Because that's the section were wounds and saves are explained. As these concepts are not explained prior to their mention in this section the rules direct you to where the explanation can be found. It doesn't state that the wounds are allocated as explained in that section, just that the explanations of what a wound and an armor save are can be found there.

[BOBMAKENZIE]

The rules also very clearly tell you in the first sentence to roll the dice as a group. Or at least thats my take on it. I think this a situation where one rule contradicts the other and your interpretation of it comes down to where you play. Because what we are seeing there says Roll X dice together where X is the number of models moving through Dangerous Terrain. Each model that rolled a 1 will suffer a wound with no armour or cover save allowed. Which is either 1) contradictory or 2) incorrectly using the word the or 3) incorrectly using the word every.

[TheMouth]

I agree with Bob, you roll as a group. Then assign wounds as you would from shooting, you dont roll to wound the models individually, you roll the group, then the opponent allocates.

[Demoulius]

I agree with Bob, you roll as a group. Then assign wounds as you would from shooting, you dont roll to wound the models individually, you roll the group, then the opponent allocates.

i may be misunderstanding something here....but your opponent NEVER allocates. the owning player allocates!

[BOBMAKENZIE]

I agree with Bob, you roll as a group. Then assign wounds as you would from shooting, you dont roll to wound the models individually, you roll the group, then the opponent allocates.

i may be misunderstanding something here....but your opponent NEVER allocates. the owning player allocates!

 

Correct I was in a rush to get out of work. I meant and then the owner allocates.

[dswanick]

The rules also very clearly tell you in the first sentence to roll the dice as a group. Or at least thats my take on it.

Can you please quote the part where it says to roll the dice as a group? I'm not seeing that anywhere in the rule.

[Morticon]

Moving this over to the OR.

 

I'm of the opinion based on the fact the specific model rolls for the DT- that the specific model takes that wound.

 

There is NO mention of allocation and no mention of shooting.

[igotsmeakabob!!]

I always took out the model that suffered the 1 roll... it never even occurred to me that it could work like wound allocation.

[Ashe Darke]

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...ngerous+terrain

[Chendals]

The normal move while in terrain will help a whole lot so that's the part that at least didn't make sense to me.

 

I just have to plan for the dangerous terrain rolls now i know my luck, or lack of!

 

For example if assaulting into terrain (usually the case, stupid lurking grey hunters) i could try to land my important guys outside terrain and have a few normal guys land in it to get me in assault range.

 

Thanks for the advice lads

[Grey Mage]

Dangerous Terrain Tests are rolled by the specific model. Yes, your special weapons, sergeants, and characters are not safe.