Psyker based space marines

[Light Warden]

Is it possible for another space marine chapter to have a psyker focus, fluff-wise, without being a grey Knights successor, which is obviously not supported. Or is this idea in too much conflict with the Nikea decision. If so it would be nice to have referenced documentation.

[XKhalilX]

i would say an entire chapter of psykers? yes. A special elite squad of psykers? Plausible.

 

The Blood Ravens employ Librarians to a high degree, often acting as Captain-Librarians, and it is known they do have an actual squad of psykers.

[Light Warden]

Thanks for blood raven insight, I'm trying my DIY chapter and was thinking of psyke based, but didn't want to post entire concept until my very base premise was atleast plausible.

[Octavulg]

The question is why they have decided to dedicate themselves to using something unreliable, inherently dangerous, and widely mistrusted.

[NightrawenII]

Yes,

but it often leads to MISS ("Me, I'm so super."), therefore it's not overly good idea.

 

2nd, you are probably 101st Liberite, who have psyker-heavy Chapter, so there goes originality.

[CKO]

The hardest part about making a chapter like the one you are suggesting is that most readers will get to a point in your IA, and say they are wannabe grey knights and stop reading, like nightrawen said it is a very common idea that has been poorly executed. You just have to make a big enough contrast between your chapter and the grey knights, and like octavulg said there has to be a good reason for the large number of psykers.

[soddinnutter]

1. Think of a reason. Do they use them to fight deamons? interrogate? really odd artillery? a cheap and dangerous way to transfer memories and experiences from one marine to another? Bargain-basement Farseers?

 

2. How does the rest of the universe see this? Does the Inquisition (and other important political entities) take one look at them and say 'By the Throne this is awesome! Can we borrow them for a while?', 'I'm watching you. I see anything even vaguely deamonic, heretical, seditious or just impolite and we nuke the continent into a puddle of radioactive glass' or do they just not know.

 

There was a third reason but i forgot.

[Lady_Canoness]

You could go take an Ulthwé-like approach and place yourselves close to the Eye of Terror and be a somewhat shady/suspicious bunch that just so happen to have Librarians in more roles than other chapters, and have a chapter council that are mostly librarians and whatnot.

 

Skate the line of being a heretic and it should all work out.

 

... then again, I'm a Chaos player at heart with a thing for psychic powers :huh:

[Light Warden]

I was actually looking through a bunch of information, quite frankly lots contardictary/ not solidly explained, and saw the Inquisitor radicals called polypsykana that support psykers as the inevitable developement of man kind. I was actually trying to devise a world that, in a kind of Darwin format, became adapted to both physical and mental attacks from the creatures on the planet. The populace itself, again not the most knowledeable on 40k fluff, has implemented controls on anyone that is basically rogue and against the well being of the community. I figure the inquisition would actually be in pretty strong connection, to the point of requiring an inquisitor lord to lead any of the actions of the chapter. The peoples pre established controls caused less hesitation to establish the chapter and the planet provided plenty of psykers for the sacrifices to the emperor. Again I'll apologize my ignorance to the highly accepted concepts of the 40k universe. Just trying to create a chapter that could atleast be accepted by most before I get too strongly into the fluff. Once something is born, idea or otherwise, it is harder to let go so I just needed to establish the accepted guidelines. I had thought of an almost Avatar, the movie, type connection with the life on the planet. Also, is there anything the suggests that there are psychic powers that do not require the warp? My general theme would be based around the Phoenician concept of a water based trading society, and of course with the W40k universe, there would be plenty of dangerous sea creatures. Color scheme is purple, Tyrian culture having been the producer according to history, and bleached bone.

 

To Lady_Canoness the idea seems easiest, and likely more used, but I was actually looking for a group well aware of the perils and benevolent aiming to banish the Emperor's enemies, and marking themselves clearly on the map so to speak, even at risk of dealing with the psychic aspect of things with controls to eliminate members before they fall to Chaos. However, due to my ignorance of the universe I very well maybe taking my Chapter ideas to unaccepted waters. Greatly appreciate the incite though.

 

Another question I have as far as gaming goes, is it possible for me to use the space marine codex for my basic marines, but substitute a counts as justicar for the vet sergeant using the proper points cost for the justicar as defined in the daemon hunter codex?

[CKO]

I was actually looking through a bunch of information, quite frankly lots contardictary/ not solidly explained, and saw the Inquisitor radicals called polypsykana that support psykers as the inevitable developement of man kind.

 

Yes, radical inquisitors do exist and using them as one of your core reason for your chapters existence/deviation is fine.

 

I was actually trying to devise a world that, in a kind of Darwin format, became adapted to both physical and mental attacks from the creatures on the planet.

 

Which can be a reason for a large number of psykers to exist on the planet.

 

The populace itself, again not the most knowledeable on 40k fluff, has implemented controls on anyone that is basically rogue and against the well being of the community. I figure the inquisition would actually be in pretty strong connection, to the point of requiring an inquisitor lord to lead any of the actions of the chapter.

 

Not sure what you are trying to say hear will you please elaborate more.

 

The peoples pre established controls caused less hesitation to establish the chapter and the planet provided plenty of psykers for the sacrifices to the emperor. Again I'll apologize my ignorance to the highly accepted concepts of the 40k universe. Just trying to create a chapter that could atleast be accepted by most before I get too strongly into the fluff.

 

I think you are making it harder than it needs to be! Your chapter choose to use a planet with a large number of psykers as their home world (perhaps the Radical Inquisitors played a role in the homeworld selection), which leads to a large amount of psykers in the chapter. (all of them can be psykers as the young men that stand out for recruiting are usually psykers) The Inquisition will keep a very close eye on them but because the system is ran by Radicl Inquisitors the chapter has more freedom than expected.

 

Once something is born, idea or otherwise, it is harder to let go so I just needed to establish the accepted guidelines.

 

You can make sure something is acceptable by continously asking questions and for other opinions, I suggest that you post your IA section by section instead of an entire IA that way you can fix problems before they snowball into major flaws.

 

I had thought of an almost Avatar, the movie, type connection with the life on the planet.

 

This sounds like a good start to your chapter's belief section. I am not sure if you have read the guide to DIYing yet, but I highly recommend it.

 

Also, is there anything the suggests that there are psychic powers that do not require the warp?

 

No, no, and no do not try to avoid the major weakness of your chapter by saying their powers are not drawn from the warp. If your IA is to be believable you need to have the fear of the warp as a major theme, infact I would make it to where your chapter worries about losing themselves to the warp like Blood Angels worry about the Red Thirst and Black Rage.

 

My general theme would be based around the Phoenician concept of a water based trading society, and of course with the W40k universe, there would be plenty of dangerous sea creatures. Color scheme is purple, Tyrian culture having been the producer according to history, and bleached bone.

 

This is one of the fun parts of making an IA, do what you wish and create a world, culture, and paint scheme as you like!

 

To Lady_Canoness the idea seems easiest, and likely more used, but I was actually looking for a group well aware of the perils and benevolent aiming to banish the Emperor's enemies, and marking themselves clearly on the map so to speak, even at risk of dealing with the psychic aspect of things with controls to eliminate members before they fall to Chaos. However, due to my ignorance of the universe I very well maybe taking my Chapter ideas to unaccepted waters. Greatly appreciate the incite though.

 

You are correct, your initial ideas were problematic, alot of people want to make their marines super powerful and better than everyone elses which is a bad idea. Your goal should be to make your chapter part of the brotherhood while at the same time having unique characteristics.

 

Another question I have as far as gaming goes, is it possible for me to use the space marine codex for my basic marines, but substitute a counts as justicar for the vet sergeant using the proper points cost for the justicar as defined in the daemon hunter codex?

 

You can ask me the rule questions as I play the game but, most of the writers do not play the game, and the answer to the question is no(pg 30 of the Daemonhunters codex). I know you may be ready to start building your army but the new codex for Grey Knights come out in April if I were you I would save my money!

 

I would be very excited about this because all grey knights are suppose to be psykers and they should get some really cool psychic abilities, and you will already have written an IA for a DIY chapter that can use the new Grey Knights codex rules.

[Light Warden]

CKO, the controls that I was thinking about would be that basically each basic marine would be psychically intuned to their leader and all of the way up the chain of command. The leader, no matter what level, would be able to psychically charge a kill switch/ bomb imbued in the marines brain at the slightest sign of defect. That being said, the combined psychic ability of his juniors could do likewise in the event that the leader succombed to the effects of the warp. The leader would have undergone much more rigorous training and mental challenge than the junior members, but not in the extent that the leader could overcome the strength of his 5+ juniors in an emergency.

I have read the guide to DIYing which has helped me in so far as where I am, but the universe is large with plenty of oddities, if you will, and I have tried a lot of research before turning to this forum with such a minimum concept, and I appreciate your time to give me knowledge that you have picked up as this world (W40K) has challeneged my ideas and thinking and if I play a Chapter it would be nice to have it acceptable to atleast most gamers.

Also, without the rejection of the warp (IA Grey Knight copiers) I'm happy to hear that there is room for psyker chapters. I wasn't searching for a cheez way out of the warp, just wanted to make sure there could be psyke based chapters.

I understand as far as gameplay goes, a play as works, but even with the new Daemon hunter codex presented wont I get the same hang ups of people saying that I'm trying to be the exact same with my chapter?

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/sm/bpe=...spacemarine.jpg

[CKO]

Thank you for your incite CKO, the controls that I was thinking about would be that basically each basic marine would be psychically intuned to their leader and all of the way up the chain of command. The leader, no matter what level, would be able to psychically charge a kill switch/ bomb imbued in the marines brain at the slightest sign of defect. That being said, the combined psychic ability of his juniors could do likewise in the event that the leader succombed to the effects of the warp. The leader would have undergone much more rigorous training and mental challenge than the junior members, but not in the extent that the leader could overcome the strength of his 5+ juniors in an emergency.

 

I am as open minded as can be when it comes to DIY chapter, consider me a radical amongst puritans, but even I will call shenanigans for a chapter that is full of psykers that has a safe button and does not worry about the warp. This is not really a choice or matter of coming up with something acceptable you just have to bite the bullet and accept the weakness, there is only one group of Astartes that is nearly immune to the warp, Grey Knights.

 

I have read the guide to DIYing which has helped me in so far as where I am, but the universe is large with plenty of oddities, if you will, and I have tried a lot of research before turning to this forum with such a minimum concept, and I appreciate your time to give me knowledge that you have picked up as this world (W40K) has challeneged my ideas and thinking and if I play a Chapter it would be nice to have it acceptable to atleast most gamers.

 

I know what your goal is I have a similar goal, but I am creating a chapter that uses either the Black Templar Codex or Space Wolves codex which is alot easier than the Grey Knights. You make an IA acceptable by giving it a weakness for every strength. Think about it for a second, how do you think other writers who have psyker heavy theme chapters feel when you say that your chapter has a kill switch for librarians that defect. It is common for chapters to have weaknesses look at the Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Dark Angels they all have something that they do not like to share or flaw in geneseed. Having a weakness is actually common.

 

Also, without the rejection of the warp (IA Grey Knight copiers) I'm happy to hear that there is room for psyker chapters. I wasn't searching for a cheez way out of the warp, just wanted to make sure there could be psyke based chapters.

 

Yes there can be psyker based chapters, but when dealing with psykers there is one universal problem that everyone expects and you can not simply toss it away.

 

I understand as far as gameplay goes, a play as works, but even with the new Daemon hunter codex presented wont I get the same hang ups of people saying that I'm trying to be the exact same with my chapter?

 

Everyone gets hang ups when writing an IA, yours is a little bit harder than usual but dont get discourage, just be willing to make changes and you will be fine.

 

 

Make your chapter different from the Grey Knights but able to use the same rules game wise is easy, here are some examples.

 

Fearless

The X chapter marines will never run from any foe as they draw strength from their psychically linked bond with their fellow marines.

 

Deep Strike

This one is to easy!

 

True Grit

X chapter marines have fought with a certain style since its founding, granting them the True Grit special rule.

 

The Aegis

The combine psychic ability of an X marine squad make it difficult to use psychic powers against them.

 

The Shrouding

The constant use of psychic abilities by the X chapter during batttle makes it difficult to target the x chapter's squads.

 

It is not that hard, just dont give up and keep asking questions.

[NightrawenII]

I was actually trying to devise a world that, in a kind of Darwin format, became adapted to both physical and mental attacks from the creatures on the planet. The populace itself, again not the most knowledeable on 40k fluff, has implemented controls on anyone that is basically rogue and against the well being of the community.

To be honest, what I gather from your replies you don't understand the true danger of psyker(s). Basically, the psyker is ticking nuclear-warhead, one false step and the psyker turn himself into gate right into hell-dimension full of nasty nightmares. And these nasties then pour out of this gate to feast upon the souls of people around that unfortunate bastard. It's nigh to impossible to stop full-blown Daemonic Invasion and it often results in mass genocide and destruction.

 

I figure the inquisition would actually be in pretty strong connection, to the point of requiring an inquisitor lord to lead any of the actions of the chapter.

Adeptus Astartes are semi-independent organisation within the Imperium hierarchy. Giving the Inquistor (Lord) control over Space Marine Chapter is too much.

 

I had thought of an almost Avatar, the movie, type connection with the life on the planet. Also, is there anything the suggests that there are psychic powers that do not require the warp?

This is practically running into Tyranid's portfolio. They are one mind/many bodies life-form and this gives them (more or less) protection against the Denizens of Warp.

 

I was actually looking through a bunch of information, quite frankly lots contardictary/ not solidly explained, and saw the Inquisitor radicals called polypsykana that support psykers as the inevitable developement of man kind.

Yes, radical inquisitors do exist and using them as one of your core reason for your chapters existence/deviation is fine.

Grand Master Tyrak wants to disagree with you. :D

 

CKO, the controls that I was thinking about would be that basically each basic marine would be psychically intuned to their leader and all of the way up the chain of command. The leader, no matter what level, would be able to psychically charge a kill switch/ bomb imbued in the marines brain at the slightest sign of defect. That being said, the combined psychic ability of his juniors could do likewise in the event that the leader succombed to the effects of the warp. The leader would have undergone much more rigorous training and mental challenge than the junior members, but not in the extent that the leader could overcome the strength of his 5+ juniors in an emergency.

The problem with such psyker-heavy is two-fold:

#A Aforementioned MISS.

#B Acceptance ratio into Space Marine Chapter is aprox. 0.15% and the occurence of psyker-mutation is like 1 in million.

 

I would like to see answer on this simple question: WHY do you want Chapter full of Psykers?

Because right now, the concept is weak and wicked.

[Light Warden]

I guess my basic answer will come down to gameplay and the hobby aspect and liking the Daemonhunter/ Grey Knight rule set, but I'm not 100% sold on their appearance and painting grey gets old on me. I guess that would be why I'm interested in learning the ins and outs of what is accepted. I posted, even though from my research I figured it would be a dead end, just to get a stronger grasp on how the 40k universe works. I'm also open to see how people are able to gear their armies towards fighting specific enemies, but outside of what I've seen from the Grey Knights, none of the Space Marine chapters seem to be specifically better at fighting certain enemies better than other Chapters.

 

And you are correct I do not fully understand and that's why I stuck my neck out there and created this post in the first place. I have Space Wolves and Imperial Guard (Death Korps) and haven't played much with psykers as the rune priests didn't really become that strong until this edition. (If the first sentence read snappy, I apologize not the intention, just an explaination.)

[The Shiny One]

I personally always liked the "infantry teleporting in battle"-theme, so this lead me to the grey knight, but as you said I find them kind of boring. So I started to create a chapter of my own, who could possibly be represented on the battlefield by the Grey Knights rules. After a few attempts I came to the conclusion that they just could be gifte by chaos. Check out my signature for an example. Or try the Tzeentch Sorcerer Warband way...

 

Making it work on the Imperial side is nearly impossible.

[Light Warden]

It is starting to appear so. It would be nice to have something like Chapter approved, though I actually have never looked at that, to assist with point costs and other ways to develop an, and I say this very loosely, original Chapter with it's own weapon sets and things that could be supported in fluff. As for the new Marine Dex I'm not so keen on the general determining doctrine, especially with such a limited selection. I find myself getting a bit annoyed by the fact that, hobby wise, the grey Knights are set in stone. Maybe with the new dex there will be room for customization of color schemes and such atleast. I could actually see that maybe helping GW in the sales side of things for GK. (I know this is off topic.)

 

My biggest problem with a Chaos twist is I would personally like my chapter to be as "good" as possible. I like the concept of a Chapter that excels at fighting Chaos Marines or even Dark Eldar but within the guidelines of the SM codex I find it difficult to have them excel at any particular task, to the point of why would they get formed if any one of the pre existing Chapters is as effective and likely more experienced to begin with. But it appears that I'll likely just have to scrap the idea completely unless the new GK codex supports successors or variants.

 

Any opinions on the color scheme?

[CKO]

Do not be discourage continue to read, learn, and write and your chapter will come together. Research psykers in the 40k universe thoroughly get a good understanding of them, and that will make your writing alot easier. Do not try to answer every single question, just brainstorm the major questions we might have and answer those in your IA and you will be fine. Everyone is not going to agree with your chapter but that is ok Astartes bump heads all the time! Someone has a chapter whos homeworld is on a defeated craftworld, which I have given solid proof that it is impossible but he brushed it off and you can do the same. As long as your chapter doesnt go overboard with their special abilities then your IA should turn out great.

 

Also Nightrawen gives excellent advice and recommendations but he is one of the hardest critics to please. :) Like I said earlier I will help you as we have similar goals! If you do not think you are capable of coming up with a chapter full of psykers, you can easily create a group of psykers in a psyker heavy chapter that has a define role similar to the Dark Angels Ravenwing.

[NightrawenII]

Also Nightrawen gives excellent advice and recommendations but he is one of the hardest critics to please.

Sigged. :P

[Light Warden]

As a possibilty for addressing the psyker issue, would it be feasible to establish an ork-like animosity test at the beginning of each game. Like have each of my units, maybe exceptions of elites, HQ and non psyker types to take a psychic test and if they fail, the leader or randomized model is destroyed or takes x amounts of strength x hits and any adjacent or models within a small template are hit with stregth x hits. Showing that the Chapter is vulnerable to the warp but choose to fight in the manner anyway? Or hell maybe d6 demons drop in the middle of the unit?

 

Also to Nightraven, while looking through my Imperial Guard Codex on sanctioned psykers, there is a side rule that if a commissar is in the unit that contains a psyker that falls to the perils of the warp he executes him immediately. I understand that rules may not support Space Marine versions of that, and I'll respect that as that would make one of the strongest armies even stronger, but in the universe as accepted by GW there are actions that can be taken to prevent people from falling to the perils by killing them. A human with a pistol none-the-less so that a preventative idea is not as far fetched as you had stated earlier.

[CKO]

As a possibilty for addressing the psyker issue, would it be feasible to establish an ork-like animosity test at the beginning of each game. Like have each of my units, maybe exceptions of elites, HQ and non psyker types to take a psychic test and if they fail, the leader or randomized model is destroyed or takes x amounts of strength x hits and any adjacent or models within a small template are hit with stregth x hits. Showing that the Chapter is vulnerable to the warp but choose to fight in the manner anyway? Or hell maybe d6 demons drop in the middle of the unit?

 

:)

 

What are you talking about? Gamewise you cannot create rules and use them unless its just something you and a friend is doing, tournaments will never allow the use of made up rules!

[Light Warden]

I'm just brainstorming because more than likely it would just be friendly games for my chapter as is, but should it go to tournaments it looks as though it would have to be a simple "counts as" call and leave them an oddly colored Grey Knights. I know it sounds odd, but as I look through things, as much as I would like as far as a fully accepted chapter goes I pretty much just have to choose a less contested Chapter and tweak their history and things.

 

CKO, I appreciate you trying to help, but on the whole it seems as though this forum is better at telling you why something can't occur without supplying any help as to a way you can make it happen. And like my previous post suggests my concept of a control mechanism isn't so far fetched in the universe as a commissar and a las pistol can prevent a full blown daemonic uprising.

[CKO]

but should it go to tournaments it looks as though it would have to be a simple "counts as" call and leave them an oddly colored Grey Knights. I know it sounds odd, but as I look through things, as much as I would like as far as a fully accepted chapter goes I pretty much just have to choose a less contested Chapter and tweak their history and things.

 

Why do you think having a grey knight "count as" army is bad? Thats the point of the IA create your own chapter, select a codex that you like, and use those rules to represent your chapter. With the amount of creative freedom in the 40k universe you can create a space marine chapter that can use the grey knights codex.

[Light Warden]

There inlies the trick, I find nothing wrong with it, but outside of your help, I just receive feedback, from w40k knowledgeable people that say why I can not with out any help. I would like to represent more of a Chapter than just "yeah, these are my bleached bone and hormagaunt purple Grey Knights." But It looks like on the whole thats all I get.

[The Shiny One]

How about just psyker heavier than normal, like the blood ravens, but putting all the psykers in the first company. So on the table you can just play the chapter elite and make your IA about how they developed this way.

[Light Warden]

I was just looking at the Blood Ravens to be honest, but again I noticed that it had a lot of "vagueness" and likely came from the thousand sons which in the guide suggests that any traitor gene seed is ruled out. I mean I guess I could look at a particular interest in knowledge and mutation in gene seed still as seems to be the main reasons for strong psychic abilities.