Pre-Heresy Iron Hands

[Aqatone]

I can't say I'm a know it all about Iron Hands fluff, but were they into their bionic replacements pre heresy too? Or was that only after the huge punch up?

[Cyrox]

They saw their failure at Istvaan 5, and the death of Ferrus Manus, as a moment of weakness, and thats where the 'Bionics replacing weak flesh' comes from i think.

[Doghouse]

The bionics bit isn't really mentioned much in pre-heresy terms until the book Fulgrim came along. Captain Balhaan of the Kaargul clan had both his arms cut off in two separate incidents about thirty years before the Heresy broke out.

Iron Father Diederik was pretty much nearly all bionics at this point and it mentioned him aspiring to go to the ultimate level which was being placed in a dreadnought. First Captain Santar had both legs that were bionic and a bionic arm but again this was two hundred years into the Great Crusade. Prior to them meeting Mannus there isn't any information as of yet, it may well stem from the thunder warriors though, the bionically augmented proto-astartes the the Emperor used to reclaim Terra during the Unification wars. But that's just a guess on my part.

 

Other than the post Index Astartes article that says about the bionics being a replacement for their weak astartes flesh there isn't a whole lot to go on in terms of pre-heresy stuff.

[Doghouse]

This pictures have come out a little darker and blurrier than planned but give you an idea of what I'm up to (really need a new camera...). What I'm doing is rather than go for hard highlights on the edges, which I'm not that great a fan of, I'm using washes to hopefully create a more natural look.

 

http://i56.tinypic.com/juh7b6.jpg

 

http://i51.tinypic.com/2irt8w7.jpg

 

For the apothecary I'm going old school RT with the original colour scheme for iron hands medics. Like I say he'll just be a regular marine in game terms but thought it'd be a fun little conversion. ^_^

 

http://i53.tinypic.com/xe20s2.jpg

 

I'm in two minds about the Warhound now because it is so darn expensive and may never actually make it into battle. So what I'm going to do is buy one of the much cheaper Death Korps Gorgons and make it into an Astartes super heavy transport crewed by marines.

The way I figure it a monster tracked vehicle would be perfect for the Iron Hands and the idea of the ramp dropping down and fifty marines storming into enemy lines is just too cool!

 

Army list is now:

 

Venerable Dreadnought (Bjorn the Fell Handed)

 

First Sergeant (Wolf Guard Battle Leader)

 

Iron Father (Iron Wolf)

 

Nine Marines with one flamer (grey hunters) x 2

 

Ten marines with one flamer and one melta gun (grey hunters) x 3

 

Five Devastators with four missile launchers (long fangs)

 

Land Raider

[The_Great_Gonzo]

First-post-arama.

 

I've saw these across on the =AB=

 

I'd be interested in seeing the gorgon conversion, and not buying the warhound will leave some nice readies available for a fellblade and a couple of mkIIB landraiders.

[Doghouse]

I'm honoured that your first post is in one of my threads mate. ;)

 

You're determined that I buy two of the Mk IIBs aren't you mate. :D

 

Luckily enough I think I still have enough parts to build a proper domed fellblade so it would cost me anything to make one so I'll see what I can do mate. ;)

[Doghouse]

Had a change of plan for the Mk IIs. Rather than paint them as IHs I've decided to include some Emperor's Children as there were strong bonds between the two Legions at the time of the great crusade.

He's still a bit too dark at the moment and I think that I need to add some Warlock Purple to the mix in order to lighten the scheme up. I'll be adding FW etched brass aquilas to the torso to make them a little more authentic.

 

http://i55.tinypic.com/ibawt3.jpg

 

http://i52.tinypic.com/30ro0bd.jpg

[Xavier Targhost]

Realy nice work there Doghouse :) love the ironhands you make and the thought in it all! :) and the Gorgon part is just awesome ;) hehe.. Fits greatly with the fluff and the way of the romans theme too apart from Ferrus being caled the Gorgon ;) hehe... Will look cool as hell and cant wait to see you make it :) and a cool idea to incorperate some EC in the army too as some spice ;)

 

Big cheer and the Sgt looks realy nice!

[Doghouse]

Thanks mate! :P

 

Bit of an update. Started work on a wound marker for Mordecai in the form of Edmun Thrace, an archivist from Terra. I don't think that Remembrancers were around at this stage in the crusade so he will be one of the guys charged with recording and assessing all the new finds that the expedition makes. The idea is that when Mordecai takes a hit Thrace's sense of self preservation gets the better of him and he leaves Mordecai's side to take cover.

It's basically a spare putty sculpt at the moment whilst I work on a few other bits for people. I'm giving him a scalf at the moment and will add little bags and bits to carry his notes and pict capture device.

In regards to this character I don't have my HH books with me at the moment but does anyone know when the remembrancer order began? From what I recall it seems to have been a later addition to the crusade rather than something that was in place from the beginning.

 

 

http://i56.tinypic.com/15hekxt.jpg

 

I've also dug out my old predator conversion and after a bit of a reworking of the army list will be adding it to the army.

 

http://i55.tinypic.com/t987r5.jpg

 

Lastly I've also dug out my old 2nd ed Dark Angels speeder after seeing Daemon Forge's brilliant conversion and will also including that in the force as well.

 

http://i52.tinypic.com/1217sw2.jpg

[Yogi]

fantastic work there mate.

 

 

I guess just painting black bored you huh..

 

Anyways I shall watch with interest as you continue your mad work..

 

 

You must be one of the first to do a whole armor of those armors.. Pioneer!

[Doghouse]

Thanks mate. :)

 

Yeah black is an incredibly dull colour to paint in my opinion and something that I normally avoid like the plague. The trick is to either weather them heavily like I have or paint them a dark charcoal grey colour then use badab black washes.

As I'm rushing these guys to get them ready for the WHW day game I'm only aiming for table top standard so am using grey washes then I'll dull cote them and let that do all the hard work for me. :)

 

Well it'd be nice to be considered a pioneer I guess but I think there are going to be quite a few armies like this springing up over time. I jsut went the mad route and bought them all in bulk. :D

 

Camera is seriously on the way out now but I did manage to get some semi-decent shots of the next lot.

 

I've made some progress on the first six guys but not really sure what colour to paint the bases. I want to avoid the red martian soil thing because it's a bit of a myth that the surface is that colour anyway and am thinking that it'd be cool to maybe include bits of the civilisation that the are currently bringing to the way of the Imperial Truth on them.

Ideally I think the way to go would be maybe a light desert style base. As it stands these first twenty guys are pretty much built as stock with a few minor conversions, what I'm planning with the next fourty MKIIIs is to have them clambering over stuff and mix it up a little.

Just working on the bolters at the moment getting them all to the same shade of white before weathering them up a little.

 

http://i56.tinypic.com/rsez5k.jpg

 

http://i54.tinypic.com/2vla7h2.jpg

 

http://i55.tinypic.com/jq6byt.jpg

 

This guys is the first of the bare head guys that I'm adding here and there throughout the force. Turns out the head I've used for first sergeant mordecai wasn't a guard head after all and I think might be from the WFB Empire Great swords set.

This guy's head is from the Cadian Command set and I'm trying to include as many guys with scars as possible to show how they are quite resistant in the face of adversity. I do plan to chuck in the odd bionic eye here and there though but nothing too over the top. He's still WIP as I've just started the face but the smaller head does make the armour seem a lot more intimidating.

 

http://i56.tinypic.com/zt7sm1.jpg

[Yogi]

The last marine pictured is my favourite. That cadian head works a charm.

 

Would it be possible for you to list the steps used to paint the black the way you have? The reason I ask is I want to "borrow" your method.

 

Also what's dull coat? varnish?

 

I really love this army.

[Doghouse]

Yeah no problem mate. :)

 

I based them with Chaos Black spray, then what I did was premix some paint by pouring some codex grey into into a spare new pot of Chaos Black and kept mixing and pouring untill I had a very dark charcoal grey colour.

Then with a third pot I did the same but added more codex grey so I had the black undercoat, the very dark grey base coat in a separate pot and the slightly lighter grey in a second.

 

The idea behind this is so that as long as I shake the pots before using them I'll get a uniform colour throughout the army.

 

Next I went over the black with the dark charcoal grey basecoat leaving black in the recesses.

 

Once that was dry I heavily watered down the second lighter grey and applied it to the raised areas of the model.

 

After that I dabbed bolt gun metal along the edges that would make contact with the floor and several of the upper raised edges where the weather has eroded the paint or it's been chipped by battle damage.

 

Once this was dry I went over the boltgun metal bits with badab wash and applied to to the recesses.

 

Dull cote is a type of spray on varnish that dulls the colours, blending them at the same time. If you do use it make sure that you are outside and have some sort of mask covering your nose and mouth as it can be really nasty stuff. You definitely need to avoid using it in doors as it is a bit nastier than regular sprays.

[Yogi]

Fantastic.

 

I was wondering how the black look so nice.

 

 

I am really keen to try that. Thanks for sharing. Gotta go buy codex grey before I can start.

 

Not to be a bore but could you explain the white also? It would be much appreciated.

 

Also thanks so much for the swift reply!

[Doghouse]

No problem mate, it's the reason I post stuff on line. :sweat:

 

The white was a base coat of Astromonican Grey foundation paint. I then went over this with a fifty fifty mix of Astronomican Grey and Skull White leaving grey in the recesses. I then gave this a watered down coat of the same but with a mix of twenty five/seventy five then highlighted with pure skull white.

[Yogi]

Thanks so much.

 

Much appreciated.

[Doghouse]

No problem, feel free to ask if you have any other question mate. :sweat:

[Doghouse]

The main reason I first posted this here in the Heresy section as well as the WIP section was so that I could go into a little more depth over what goes into this army and what doesn't in this thread.

 

To give a little more insight into why I'm doing things the way I am I've devised this little list based on what I personally know of Pre-Heresy and Heresy stuff and the guidelines I use myself. This isn't really anything official and because they has been a lot of rewriting of the material since the release of the books some of it may be seen as inaccurate by some but it's purely just a few guidelines that some budding pre-heresy generals might find of use.

 

Firstly I've split the Great Crusade into two eras, early and late. This is important mainly because it breaks the equipment in use into two easily lumps. There are a whole bunch of vehicles and weapons that are stated as being strictly post heresy but at the end of the day it's your army and you can always pass it off as a proto-type that never made it into mass production or a variant that never survived.

 

Early Crusade

 

For the early crusade I am generally including most of the mid crusade era as well because all the interesting stuff happens in the years just before the Heresy. For the most part marines fought in Mk II armour throughout the crusade, the introduction of the Mk III was never really that wide spread and the Mk IV didn't come into play quite late in the time line. Even when it did it was still being distributed to the Legions when the Heresy finally broke. So I'd suggest anything for the early Crusade era you should try and stick to Mk II and Mk III suits of armour. This doesn't mean that if you don't use the old metal armour mark models that were released in the Rogue Trader era of models or the Forge World marines made for the Badab war books that your army is any less pre-heresy. There are numerous reasons that you can use to explain why your guys look a little different, with such factors as local materials, Legion specific modifications, etc.

Mk III armour is noted as not being used on a wide spread scale but as the Legions numbered around 100,000 marines each a forty kay sized force of all Mk III is entirely possible.

 

So the list I have is that I'm using is (and there is probably stuff I've missed here): Mk II and Mk III, Phobos pattern bolters, flamers, plasma-guns, lascannons, heavy bolters, conversion beamers, Mk I - Mk IV dreadnought, Mk I land raiders, Librarians, rhinos, predator destructors, landspeeders, bikes, jetbikes, storm bird, drop pods, whirlwinds.

 

I'm not entirely sure about melta guns to be honest and this is up to you at the end of the day whether or not you chose to include them. Back when the Heresy stuff first started to get attention was when they were revising the fourth edition chaos codex the general idea was that they wanted to portray the traitor marines as if they had just emerged from the heresy itself as though no time had passed for them. One of the points raised was that meltaguns had not been invented at this point. This may have since been rewritten though as Terminators used to have combi-bolters and reaper autocannons instead of stormbolters and assault cannons but this seems to have been written out with the new novels.

Personally speaking I get the impression that Terminator armour was being introduced quite late in the crusade, maybe the last twenty or thirty years but could be wrong.

The Mk IV dreadnought (the FW one) is said to have been introduced during the great crusade with those legions fighting in the southern regions of crusade was specifically made by one forge world that has long since been lost. As it doesn't really say when they were introduced in terms of a time line you could quite easily use them in either time line.

 

Late Crusade

 

Late crusade is where things start to get interesting as the technology starts to advance rather rapidly. We see the Mk IV start to become used by the those Legions luckily to be near enough for resupply and you get things like terminator armour coming into play along with the STC constructs for the likes of the Thunder Hawks.

For late Crusade up untill the Heresy I'd say the following: All of the above early crusade options minus Librarians but adding Chaplains, Thunderhawks, Storm Ravens (maybe), terminators, assault cannons, storm bolters, Mk IIB Land Raiders, Mk IV armour, Umbra pattern bolters.

 

I've included storm ravens purely because the Blood Angels codex says that although it says that the STC was recently rediscovered it was noted that it has been in use before that time, with the likes of the Grey Knights for example. So it doesn't really say either way.

I've also included the MkIIB land raider in the late stuff purely because this is where you start seeing STC template vehicles with their distinct template design begin to emerge. This isn't anything official just speculation on my part.

 

Things best generally to avoid are Crusader and Redeemer landraiders, predator annihilators and razor backs because most people will argue the fact that they are noted as being created after the heresy.

Vindicators are another one specifically created in the Heresy but they have crept into pre-heresy books which may cause some confusion.

 

Like I say this is just the guidelines that I personally use that some might find useful as a starting point. <_<

[Brother Melice]

Now that's what I'm talking about.... hobbying at it's best!

[Doghouse]

Thanks mate. :)

 

Pictures aren't great (need a new camera) but here is my Fire Wasp for the force. The army is heavily infantry based mainly because I want to be able to make full use of the army in boarding actions using the FW rules set which is why I went all Mk III.

For those not in the know, the Fire Wasp is a pre-heresy drone that is sent into ships during boarding actions to scout ahead and spring enemy traps. It's armed only with a flamer and has a search light.

 

I used leftover parts from the plastic Iron Clad dreadnought kit, bits of some old power field generators from the old BoM set and a spare landraider gun targeter.

I originally was going to add armour plated shields but instead figured it'd be more interesting to have power field generators that flare into life once a trap has been sprung.

 

Going to have a bash at the demolition drone stratagem next.

 

http://i52.tinypic.com/21aa2ds.jpg

 

http://i54.tinypic.com/28rmgll.jpg

[malika666]

I wonder how the Legion would be organized in your era. I mean, during the Unification Wars the Emperor fielded twenty Regiments that would eventually become the Adeptus Astartes Legions. However, were the old Regiments also organized into companies/great companies/chapters? Or is this something that was introduced later on?

 

I would imagine that the Legions were divided into Companies before encountering their Primarchs, but in the case of the Iron Hands this would be interesting since they are organized into Clans. Would the original Companies become Clans, as in each Company becoming a Clan, or would the Clans be more akin to Chapters, consisting of multiple Companies?

[Doghouse]

It hasn't really ever been explored in much as far as I know. Without knowing the size of the Regiments it's hard to really say whether they used companies or not. What is known is that they were made up of Thunder warriors, also known as Proto-Astartes, which were basically bionically and chemically enhanced humans according to A Thousand Sons and most of them ended up going mad.

What I'm presuming is that the true Astartes came in towards the very end of the Unification Wars, mainly because Garro remembers fighting in the Dusk Raiders Regiment and given that it sounds like thunder warriors were a little unstable I'm guessing he was a true Astartes.

 

I'm not sure whether the Regiments became Legions after being reunited with their Primarchs or whether they became Legions at the end of the Unification Wars as the Sol campaign began. Personally I think the former seems to make more sense.

 

Most of my stuff is based on supposition as there isn't really a lot to go on in regards to the Iron Hands for now. I'm presuming that they were known by another name as a Regiment because it says they were named the Iron Hands after their Primarch, much in the same way that the Warhounds became the World Eaters, the Dusk Raiders became the Death Guard and the Imperial Heralds became the Word Bearers.

 

I do know the 52nd Expedition (which was the main Iron Hands fleet in Fulgrim) was formed one hundred and forty to fifty years before the Heresy started. Given that I think Horus was the sole Primarch and fought alongside the Emperor alone for something like thirty years this would put the possible discovery of Mannus somewhere around fifty to sixty years into the crusade. My army is set around five years after this.

 

I'm guessing that once the change was made over to the Iron Hands at this point it seems likely that they took on the Clan system but retained Captains rather than being led by Iron Fathers. Rather than try and name the captain of the Kaargul I've gone the more subtle route of making a first sergeant of a minor part of what I'm guessing is a much bigger structure.

 

Another aspect to consider is how strong their ties with the Adeptus Mechanicus and what influence this plays on the Legion before they were re-united with their Primarch as it seems most likely that the Iron Fathers were introduced after recruiting on Medusa began and could well have been an aspect of the Clans that the Legion has adopted.

 

Personally speaking I'm more interested in the idea that Iron Hands abhorred weakness in any form and am coming at it from a human angle, so there will be lots of scars and a scattering of bionic eyes rather than to have them lopping bits off because the flesh is considered weak.

So it's basically in my mind it's a case of the Astartes pushing themselves as hard as they can as organic beings then later resorting to bionics much later in the Crusade.

[Dorns Padawan]

Love the drone Doghouse! You got a nice little army coimg on there matey, love how you always share the knowledge - I learn quite a lot from all this! Looking forward to seeing the demolition drone!!!!

[Doghouse]

Thanks mate, always willing to pass on what I know. I think this will be a really nice army when it's finished, still seriously tempted to go the whole hog and buy a Warhound to go with them though. :)

Back when Adeptus Titanicus came out the main fight was with the Titan Legions and it just seems wrong not to include one in the force.

 

Might just settle for a scratch built knight titan instead though. They're only nine metres tall which at this scale puts them at about eleven and half centimetres which I can get away with using Bjorn's dreadnought rules for one at a push.

[Vodunius]

As far as I'm aware meltaguns have always been pre-heresy in canon, the 2nd edition chaos codex specifically held meltas up as an example: the meltagun STC had been recovered and as such was in mass production and common use at the time of the Heresy however because the AdMech didn't yet understand the principals behind it they had yet to develop the Multi-Melta.

 

Collected Visions (forget which of the compiled volumes) had a - ignored by Black Library - section on Astartes organisation during the crusade that said most legions were divided into Regiments (renamed to Great Companies, Chapters, Wings etc) of 1,000 marines commanded by an Imperial Commander which were divided into 100 man companies led by a Captain grouped into Battalions of 5 companies led by a Lieutenant-Commander. (tho personally I prefer the Space Marine 1st edition version which had 3 battalions of 3 companies - apparently the smurf company colours were created with this list in mind hence the 10th company lacking a colour even tho the original scouts had trims)