Lost to Daemons

[Coverfire]

I had a 1k battle last night against Chaos Demons and it was a disaster. Mostly because I knew nothing of their army

list which is why I was interested in playing them. But on his first turn he wiped out my 2 Long Fangs squads with Breath of Chaos - it does ignore cover saves right? I just looked online and have can only find that it ignores saves - and those two squads equaling 340 points put me at a huge disadvantage.

 

A couple of rounds of Murderous Hurricane wiped out one squad and Tempests Wrath helped slow down his HQ but didn't prevent it from Ripping open a Rhino and chasing down and annihilating the regrouping Pack of Grey Hunters Accompanied by the Rune Priest which hindered him with Tempest's Wrath.

 

Finding themselves surrounded on all sides, my second pack of Hunters decided to take the fight to Chaos (or get assaulted the next turn by his HQ, 3 Bloodcrushers and a squad of Bloodletters I chose to abandon my position (in cover) and assault the Bloodletters which I wiped out all but one Bloodletter and the Skulltaker. and he killed 6 Grey Hunters leaving me with only my Rune Priest which was killed in the next turn.

 

I think he might have stuffed up his HQ, as it had Flight, Breath of Chaos, Unholy might, Boon of Mutation and Bolt of Tzeentch.

I think that looking back at it now it was a Lord of Change but he mistakingly added Unholy might (which would have saved my Rhino from getting Stunned which I could still have used as a Firebase for my Grey Hunters. However he could have surrounded it and killed it next turn without much difficulty.

[DV8]

Daemons are a tricky beast, because you never quite know when or where they're going to show up, and their units are rather cheap and devastating if used properly.

 

Breath of Chaos, as a Template weapon, does ignore cover saves as well. It's a pain (it's why I HATE Flamers).

 

Would help to know what he took, and what you took, before we could really offer any suggestions.

 

As a general rule of thumb, I prefer to let a Daemon player go first, and will (depending on my army/mission) castle, reserve, or outflank my army. You also need to prioritize your targets. Identify models/units that present the greatest immediate threat and remove them from the table.

 

It's also quite hard at 1000 points because every unit is a huge chunk of your army gone (in your case two Long Fangs packs making up 34% of your army). In a 1750 point game that hit might not have been as serious because you have more units to strike back with. But in smaller games the removal of a unit or two from either side could automatically spell victory or defeat rather quickly.

 

 

DV8

[Lord Ragnarok]

I would think one thing which is an absolute must are a couple of rune priests with Tempest Wrath (and also maybe hurricane). When they deep strike in they'll have to roll, move-roll, get shot roll and move roll again. Most of the Daemons, although having inv save, are quite low (+5) make them roll enough and it well hurt.

 

------

Whoops missed that you had that, but it seemed to work well. Perhaps two Runies next time if you can afford them? More shots down range? (heavy bolters) Again, I think the key is to make them take a lot of saves.

[Epic Thoughts]

Ragnarok hit it on the head. Weight of dice can be relied on in most cases to defeat demons. Twin linked weapons, predator destructor, assault cannons, and heavy bolters.

[Coverfire]

My list had

 

Rune Priest #1 - Chooser of the Slain, Murderous Hurricane, Living Lightning

 

Rune Priest #2 - Living Lightning, Tempest's Wrath

 

Grey Hunters Pack #1 - Meltagun, Powerweapon, Mark of the Wulfen, Rhino, Hunter-Killer Missile

 

Grey Hunters Pack #2 - As Above

 

Long Fangs Pack #1 - x2 Lascannons, x3 Missile Launchers

 

Long Fnags Pack #2 - As Above

 

Built as an allcomers list, and mostly to dominate mech lists I have so far faced 2 infantry lists and lost (the first against

standard marines and I was playing to conservatively and waited too long before claiming objectives).

 

He had as far as I can tell:

 

Lord of Change

 

x3 Blood Crushers of Korne - Fury & Instrument

 

x1 Blood Letters of Khorne with Skulltaker

 

(Possibly because it died quickly) x1 Pink Horrors of Tzeentch

 

x3 Flamers of Tzeentch

 

I was part of a 1500 point list which he trimmed down to 1k at the last minute so it might be a little bit over. Flamers of Tzeentch wiped out one Long Fangs Pack and the Lord of Change killed the other.

 

 

We have another 1k battle next week with a proper 1k list each, so thought I would seek advice.

[Bloodmange]

Ditch those Hunter Killers and pick up power fists I'd also drop one Lascannon from each Long Fang Pack and go for another Missle Launcher. Just my 2 cents, Oh! I'd also grab another Chooser for your second Priest and give him a Boltgun so your Wargear is diffrent.

 

Typically in my 1000 point list I run 2 Rune Priests, 3 wolf guard (2 with fists and combi meltas), 2 packs of 8 grey hunters (kitted out), and 2 Long Fang packs

[Coverfire]

Ditch those Hunter Killers and pick up power fists I'd also drop one Lascannon from each Long Fang Pack and go for another Missle Launcher. Just my 2 cents, Oh! I'd also grab another Chooser for your second Priest and give him a Boltgun so your Wargear is diffrent.

 

Typically in my 1000 point list I run 2 Rune Priests, 3 wolf guard (2 with fists and combi meltas), 2 packs of 8 grey hunters (kitted out), and 2 Long Fang packs

 

Don't own enough missile Launchers... hence the Lascannons, but I could swap them out for heavybolters.

[Godhead]

Flamers work pretty nice against daemon troops, actually as do rapid fire bolters. Cover is your friend for just about everything. Unless its a nurgle DP or just about anything slannessh then it doesn't have assault grenades. Furious charge from a bloodletter into cover is just a str 5 power fist <_<

[Coverfire]

Hard to want cover with AP3 flamers.

[Grey Mage]

Well, meching up isnt a bad idea- nor is drop podding to some extent.

 

I reccommend... wait for it.... a whirlwind. Yep, S5, hits those nicely bunched up units as they roll in... just about anywhere on the board. Nothing is safe. If you have one you should definitely field it.

 

Otherwise... lots of Grey Hunters with Plasma Rifles are very useful, Long Fangs with Plasmacannons or Missile Launchers are downright useful, and a Rune Priest with Murderous Hurricane and Tempests Wrath will make daemon players cry.

 

Most of my fights against Daemons have been vs. Khorne-Slaanesh, and they often end up with almost everything on the field wiped out to a man. Keep a mind to your mission objectives. Youll want mass firepower for the little ones, quality firepower for the bigguns.

[narf]

Remember cover is your friend against daemons, stay in it and you will generally go first in combat, unless they are slaanesh.

 

Add to this murderous hurricane and you have lots of cheap Str3 hits and movement penalties, alongside the fact that they will count as assaulting into cover if they charge you, so you go first.

[Orphus]

I would think one thing which is an absolute must are a couple of rune priests with Tempest Wrath (and also maybe hurricane). When they deep strike in they'll have to roll, move-roll, get shot roll and move roll again. Most of the Daemons, although having inv save, are quite low (+5) make them roll enough and it well hurt.

That made me chuckle for some reason, true.

 

I think the key is to make them take a lot of saves.

Yup. Do you have any idea how annoying that is?

- first intro into 40k: played a game with eight marines controlling a single marine with a flamer. Rules were pretty much as above :sick: ROLES FOR EVERYTHING! Was frustratingly fun.

[the jeske]

shouldnt use 2 RP in a 1k game . should have bought razorbacks[hvy bolter ones] for the LF and sit in them turn one till flamers come] .

 

why HK on he rhinos ?? your either using smokes or your moving 12" or your stuned/shaken/blown up.

 

Against demons always castel stay in transports , if he gets the bad wave [the one he doesnt want to get] he is offten more or less screwed . Read a dex before you play against it by the way , you should be testing against everything , but if you cant or dont have the time then at least read the dex .

[Coverfire]

I was wondering. What if I took a Thunderwolf Cavalry list, with Canis and Fenrisian Wolves.

 

I deploy the Fenrisian Wolves at 2" intervals and create a Wagon Train. If he Ports in too close and Blast my Wolves (Lord of Change can't target different units with his Chaos Gift right?) he'll get a few but not an entire unit. Canis will give my Wolves I5 so I will only fail Boon of Mutation of a roll of 6. Thunderwolf Lord and Cavalry will assault the Lord of Change.

 

Very specialised tactic though, and I would prefer a more all comers list. But having I5 be it on Fen Wolves from Canis or Furious Charge with Ragnar might be a decider in my opinion. As already pointed out 1k is not as forgiving which is why I want to learn how to utilise my units as efficiently as I can and I thik playing lower point value matches might help me.

[Orphus]

I was wondering. What if I took a Thunderwolf Cavalry list, with Canis and Fenrisian Wolves.

 

I deploy the Fenrisian Wolves at 2" intervals and create a Wagon Train. If he Ports in too close and Blast my Wolves (Lord of Change can't target different units with his Chaos Gift right?) he'll get a few but not an entire unit. Canis will give my Wolves I5 so I will only fail Boon of Mutation of a roll of 6. Thunderwolf Lord and Cavalry will assault the Lord of Change.

 

Very specialised tactic though, and I would prefer a more all comers list. But having I5 be it on Fen Wolves from Canis or Furious Charge with Ragnar might be a decider in my opinion. As already pointed out 1k is not as forgiving which is why I want to learn how to utilise my units as efficiently as I can and I thik playing lower point value matches might help me.

*WINCE* Don't mind that, it's just that the White Dwarf immediately before the SW release had a battle report where Canis dies, being mown down by bloodletters. My advice would be for the TWC to focus on the masses first and then move on to the bigger stuff properly supported. Don't send your lord or canis against a powerful squad on their own, even if you think they can handle it. Especially against bloodletters.

[nurglez]

lord of change can target different units i think?

 

bloodletter's are nasty, power weapon's and furious charge, ouch.

 

I've played daemons a few times, and, well, as they deepstrike, sure its a disadvantage for you, as you dont know when or where they will show up, but its the same for the daemon player! staying in vehicle's helps, as they dont have much anti vehicle ranged fire power, or maybe putting some of your stuff in normal reserves to beat him at his own game heh

[waaanial00]

If you are going to do TWC then beware of Skulltaker, he rends on a 4+ and every rend counts as Instant death. If you are unlucky he could concievably kill the majority of your TWC before you even strike.

 

Beware as well, if he has a larger range of Daemons and he knows you are taking SW he might end up building his list for combat so dont count on his HQ being Lord of Change.

[Orphus]

If you are going to do TWC then beware of Skulltaker, he rends on a 4+ and every rend counts as Instant death. If you are unlucky he could concievably kill the majority of your TWC before you even strike.

 

Beware as well, if he has a larger range of Daemons and he knows you are taking SW he might end up building his list for combat so dont count on his HQ being Lord of Change.

...of course, if you don't equip TWC with anything extra they get rending <_<

[Coverfire]

I think I am going about this all wrong. I was looking to change my list at the first opportunity rather than staying with my list and learning how to counter his attacks.

 

He doesn't have too much depth to his list but I wouldn't be surprised to see at least 1 Bloodthirster and/or a Soul Grinder next week.

 

He thought that you had to take 4 troops choices to get a second Bloodthirster by someone at the club said that he didn't any ideas about that?

 

I may alter my list by perhaps dropping the Lascannons for another squad of Heavybolters or use 3 packs of Missile launchers (will have to proxy). Smaller squads of Long Fangs might be easier to wipe out but an extra squad might make a difference. Will drop the Power Weapons for Points and the Meltaguns for plasmaguns.

[Grey Mage]

If you are going to do TWC then beware of Skulltaker, he rends on a 4+ and every rend counts as Instant death. If you are unlucky he could concievably kill the majority of your TWC before you even strike.

 

Beware as well, if he has a larger range of Daemons and he knows you are taking SW he might end up building his list for combat so dont count on his HQ being Lord of Change.

...of course, if you don't equip TWC with anything extra they get rending :)

Of course... thats not particularly useful against demons either :).

[trefenwyd]

I've found Daemons to be the hardest army to fight with an all-comers list, to be honest, assuming their deep strike/reserve rolls don't go horribly for them. Also the reason I could never play daemons - too much luck.

 

My "standard" 1850 list includes a RP, 4 GH squads in rhinos/razors, 3 LFs, and 10-man combi-melta drop pod team. In my game last weekend, against a very experienced Nurgle army (Fateweaver, Epidimius, 2 Daemon Princes, some nurglings, 3 15-man plaguebearer squads), I barely managed a Kill Point victory, 1-0. He ended up rolling his less-desired army half to come in, then mishaped on the DS for one plaguebearer squad. I went "all or nothing" and placed his plaguebearers in behind my castle. On my turn, I needed to either wipe his unit or suffer the wrath when Fateweaver and the 2 DPs deep struck next to me using his icon. It took EVERYTHING I had - that's 2 flame templates, 14 melta shots, 12 missiles, 6 lascannons, 3 TL plasma guns, 20 bolt pistols, and 24 marines in assault to wipe him, and it happened with my power fists in the Init 1 phase of assault (he was down to 2 models and luckily failed his 2 5+ invuls on his icon). Talk about insane - an entire 1850 pt SW army barely wiped one unit in the combined shooting/assault phase (opponent ran into area terrain, then went to ground, gaining a 3+ cover or 5+ invul, followed by 4+ FNP for T5 models).

 

The Daemon army has so many different specialized unit choices that make it almost impossible to counter unless you know exactly what they're brining. 2 units of Bloodcrushers w/Fateweaver + Bloodthirster and some Bloodletters is a very different army than the Nurgle one I described above, and both can be extremely difficult to win against. Same goes for Lord of Change x2, 3 x steeds of Slaanesh + some horrors (defensive grenades are a SW's worst nightmare, although this list isn't as hard to win against). Concur w/Grey Mage's comment above, massed firepower for the T4 and lots of plasma/missiles/lascannons for the T5+, although that pretty much sums up gun-line theory in a nutshell . . . bring as many guns as you can!

[Godhead]

Oh a tip against flamers is that they don't fight well at all. They can however tarpit you, but at least you aren't getting shot. If you keep something near your longfangs to bail them out (or just charge with your long fangs) They should win out eventually, especially with the typical squad size for flamers. I still want to utilize cover vs most daemons (Cover after they've popped my transport that is).

[Coverfire]

My game against Chaos Daemons is tomorrow night.

 

I was wondering is it worth adding a squad of 10 Wolf Guard with stormbolters?

 

EDIT:

 

List of far: Remember it is for 1k.

 

Rune Priest #1 - Chooser of the Slain, Living Lightning, Murderous Hurricane

 

Rune Priest #2 - Living Lightning [or Murderous Hurricane], Tempest's Wrath

 

Grey Hunters Pack #1 - Flamer, Plasmagun, MotW, Wolf Standard, Rhino

 

Grey Hunters Pack #2 - As Above

 

630 Points (or 600 points without Flamers and Priests in Rhino)

 

I think I should take Long Fangs or Predators for use against Defilers and Greater Daemons.

But with 10 Men in my Grey Hunter Packs I will also require space in a Vehicle for them.

[thor1234]

I have faced the warp Creatures many a time! and I could tell many MANY tales of heroism and victory for the sons of Russ........

 

the Key is that nothing in his Army can Assault when he arrives for a whole turn.... Depending what goes in each part of his force should give you target priority...

 

I would say concolidate the special Weapons I.E. take one pack with 2 flamers and one with 2 Plasma guns..... or take 4 5 man packs with one weapon each, the advantage would be to limit the amount of men that can be killed in one bout!

and take Saga of Beastslayer on your priest!!! WS5 re-rolling to hit and WOUNDING ON A 2+ versus greater Daemons!

 

stay in transports if he goes first, then get out right next to him and rapid fire the taint out of him! and definatley take those fists on the WG!

 

hope this gives you help brother!

FOR THE WOLFTIME! FOR RUSSSS!!!!!!!!!