loss against orks. your opinions, brothers?

[masterchief4312]

I went against a friend of mine with orks in a 750 pt. Annihilation battle. I used 1 squad of long fangs with 2 HB., 2 LC, and 1 squad leader. I had another squad of Long Fangs with 2 HB, 1 LC, 1 MM, and 1 squad leader. In addition, i used 5 termies with 2 Chainfists, 1 Assault Cannon, and 1 Frost Blade, with a few power fists and storm bolters mixed in. For HQ i used a battle leader (we agreed on no named characters). For troops, i had one squad of ten grey hunters with 1 power fist, 1 flamer, and 1 melta (and MOTW) and another squad of five grey hunters with 1 flamer and 4 bolters. He used a squad of 6 lootas + mekboy with shokk gun. He also used 19 regular boyz led by a nob, and a squad of nobz with a warboss and a painboy. Finally, he used three killa kans.

 

In turn 1 he managed to destroy an entire squad of my long fangs (the squad with 2 lascannons) with his shokk gun (it ended up getting really good stats that first turn). He moved his boyz towards the one building on the table and moved his killa kans and the hq squad towards my remaining long fangs and the small grey hunter squad. with his lootas he shot at the remaining long fang squad and killed 1. On my turn, i moved my termies towards the building. the large grey hunter squad moved up the middle staying in cover. i managed to destroy one of the killa kans with the one long fang in range.

 

turn 2 was more of the same, - he killed another long fang and assaulted my hunters with his killa (only one though because i had immobilised the other one). he also took over the building with his boyz. in my turn, i tried unsuccesfully to blow up the building with the termies, and moved the hunters farther up the middle. i used my long fang with lascannon to shoot killa kans but missed.

 

turn 3 - he declared waagh and moved 18" to attack the long fangs (he rolled a 6 for the run part). the long fangs were destroyed (i didnt even inflict a wound because of the painboy). in my turn, i destroyed the building with a melta that the hunter squad had, killing 9 orks. then i shot and charged with the termies and killed the rest.

 

turn 4 - his mekboy managed to kill 2 termies with the shokk gun. also, his hq squad finished off the hunters in combat with the killa kans. on my turn, i killed 2 lootas.

 

turn 5 - he started moving his killa kans and hq toward my termies and remaining hunter squad. the mekboy missed the termies with shokk gun and hit a few hunters, killing 3. on my turn, i killed the remaining lootas, leaving only the mekboy with one wounf

 

turn 6 - his mekboy missed my termies and instead hit the hunters, killing all of them. on my turn i managed to kill his mekboy.

 

turn 7 - killa kans moved in range and destroyed the termies with their ap2 guns.

 

so does anyone have any tips/advice or things i could have done better (i am still pretty new, only played 3 games). thanks brothers, any help is greatly appreciated and will be rewarded with ale.

[Fred Johnson the 3rd jr]

Don't put a Multi-Melta in your Long Fangs, their usual role is to sit back in cover and shoot things across the table. With that in mind, get more missile launchers, they aren't expensive points-wise and they can be used both for hordes and for taking out lower strength vehicles.

 

Your terminators seem to have too many goodies piled on. You want to keep them on the cheaper side, perhaps one chainfist in the squad, maybe one powerfist, and keep the rest regular power swords (which lets most of your guys attack at Initiative 4 instead of 1). If they are going to be walking a Cyclone Missile Launcher might be a better idea than the Assault Cannon, since it has double the range.

 

Also, transports are your friend. Get some Rhinos for your Grey Hunters (but buy the Razorback box, so you'll have the option of either a Razor or a Rhino).

[WulfenBrother]

I agree with Fred. Those Long Fangs work wonders while sitting back in cover and using thier split fire. Missile launchers are your best friend against orks. The termies can stay light with a few power fists and storm bolters, and against this army like Fred said Cyclone Missile Launcher would work great. Your friend has to admit he got lucky with his Shokk attack gun. I have a friend that plays orks and always brings one and very rarely ever has that much luck with it, very unpredictable are the orks and that's what is cool about them. Every Annihilation battle I have played against Orks (and I've played a lot) my Long Fangs steal the show. They, in my opinion, are the best manned long range shooters in the game. with their split fire you can take out all the kans and have more left over for that Shokk attack gun and his squad. You played a good game but like I said he must have had the dice gods on his side with that Shokk. Good game for it only being your 3rd.

[Adarul Greystalker]

Everything that has been said is good advice, but I'd like to focus a bit more on the tactics that you should use instead of your army list choices. First of all, keeping a small grey hunter squad back with your long fangs is a good idea, especially in objective games where they can hold a home objective. Your long fangs got unlucky on the first turn for sure, but in the future, I would recommend that you use those lascannons and missile launchers against nobs. Shooting the kans is not a bad idea either, but the nobs are honestly better targets because they're easily killed by S8 weapons and are actually more dangerous in close combat than kans if they have the proper weapons. You can take down a couple of kans in a turn or so in close combat if you include a power fist in your grey hunter pack. You'll do even better if you can shoot at them with a meltagun or two first. Nobs, on the other hand, can shred grey hunters in close combat. You should keep those nobs away from your grey hunters at all costs as long as they're using the standard feel no pain + power klaw setup. Shoot them with strength 8 weapons and only engage them in close combat with elite units that can instant kill them or at least ignore feel no pain. Those terminators of yours would surely qualify. Next time, try squaring off your grey hunters against his boyz. Your bolters will shred them, and you can absolutely take them in close combat if your numbers are good, even if they get the charge. Use the terminators and long fangs to take out those nobs before they can kill your grey hunters.

 

This tactical plan also suggests methods of list building and deployment. I tend to build my armies around my grey hunters. GHs are outstanding troops, and they can serve as close-range attackers or defenders against a large variety of opponents. There are some things though - like nobs - that are very hard to deal with using grey hunters. Consider the rest of your army as support for your very capable troops. Take things like long fangs to pick off threats or reduce them to a manageable strength. Bring heavy assault units like those terminators to charge into and clear out strong enemy positions or or blunt the enemy's spearhead.

 

Bring the right tools to the table for sure, but bear in mind how you want to use those tools to support one another and either take and hold objectives or kill the enemy while denying them kill points. From there, it's knowing when to stick to the plan and when to deviate, being able to spot the stratagems your enemy plans to use and recognize threats, knowing unit capabilities and good target priority methods. Learn to practice all of these things and you'll have an easier time of it against the orks by becoming a better, more experienced player.

[Godhead]

I would like to add that at low points, I almost (well I actually don't leave home without one at all now) always include a runepriest as my 1st HQ armed with living lightning and murderous hurricane. It's my go to guy. He can use MH to slow the Kans or nobz. A round or two of fire from living lightning from the firepoint of a rhino could easily see those Lootas running off the table. He is probably the best choice for HQ at those low levels. If you wanted a CC oriented HQ instead though, I would recommend a Wolf Priest. He's cheap, comes stock standard with a power weapon and an invuln save. You could get fancy and give him saga of the hunter and runic armor. Now he makes 4 up cover saves a 3 up cover and has a 2+/4+ invul with 4 attacks on the charge or counter charge.

[d@n]

3 or 4 rune priest in rhinos, joww things with squads of gray hunters. long fangs laying down templates is a ork players nightmare

[clanfield]

i think your list is a bit heavy i fight orks a lot i would sugest

1 pack of long fangs all rockets many many more greyhunters (flamers here there free and good v orks)

a speeder or two with multi meltas will flank and hit his kans with the long fangs in reserve for antitank/nob duty. a rune priest definatly at 750 points the orks have a slight edge in numbers whatch out for flanking gyrocopters with buzzsaws if you use tanks

[Thunderhawk3015]

If your going to use terminators and have the points, upgrading the power weapon to a wolf claw is very useful and lets you reroll either failed to hit or to wound rolls. Against Orks especially, maxamize your squad sizes so they can last more than one turn and pump out more fire. The Assault cannon is good for light tanks/infantry and can put some hurt on AV 14 if the dice like you. Long Fangs, pick what they are going to be dedicated to killing and kit them out for that, don't mix high RoF weapons with tank killing weapons as the more dice you roll to hit wound means that much more potential carnage.