Best way to acess C:SM honor guard?

[DerekLee688]

I know that's a relative question. The only two ways are generic chapter master and special character chapter master.

 

Calgar is the only way to get more than one squad, but that's far too many points for what I had in mind. Pedro allows one squad plus makes sternguard scoring, but for me makes it too tempting to take HG and SG. Is there another SC that allows HG?

 

Are chapter masters worth their points to get honor guard?

 

I'm looking for a way to field 5-6 HG in 1500-2000pt. games as counter assult or CQC rescue.

[Arkios]

Pedro is cool if you are going to use Sternguard. Otherwise, I feel his Power Fist wastes the awesome Initiative 5 that Masters and Captains have. Calgar isnt so bad, as he gets 2 more Fist attacks than Kantor (he has +1 attacks stock in his stat line, + 1 more attack for his two Power Fists), has an extra wound and Eternal Warrior to ensure that he swings. He is expensive tho...

 

To be honest, If you want a cheap Master and are not looking to field Sternguard, go with a generic Chapter Master armed with just a Relic Blade and Storm Shield, which clocks in at 170 points.

[LardO'Blood]

Marneus Calgar:

Pros:

Beast in close combat

God of War ability

Three HQ squads

Cons:

Costs more than a LR

Pedro Kantor:

Pros:

Makes the army stubborn

Makes sternguard scoring

Essentially a living chapter banner

A "cheaper" option

Cons:

4++ and no EW combined with I1 means he will most likely die before doing anything in close combat.

You lose combat tactics

Generic Chapter Master:

Pros:

Potentially the cheapest

Can be built to work pretty well in CC with a relic blade and storm shield

Customizable

Cons:

Just a standard HQ, nothing special.

 

A good way to field honor guard can be the Idaho Pattern:

Chapter master with relic blade, storm shield

Chapter champion with relic blade

Chapter Standard Bearer

3x standard Honor guard

Rhino/Razorback

[greatcrusade08]

you want the idaho pattern honour gaurd..

5 guys with banner and relic blade on the champ and a chapter master with relic blade and storm shield

 

edit: ninja'd by mr O.blood

[DerekLee688]

I've read Darkguard's 101 article to find out Calgar, Pedro, and generic are the only way to run Honorguard. I couldn't remember if Khan or someone else could take them. Pedro has a half of the chapter banner built in to him saving the need to buy the one for honor guard. I5 is wasted but it would be the only fist in the unit, needed or not HG can't take one. If there's a dread or MC stalking around I'd keep him attached, if not, he can sit in a vehicle or detatch to drop his orbital bombardment.

[DarkGuard]

Thank you sir, I think you're the only person to admit reading mine and Grim's 101, makes me happy :eek.

 

You are correct, only Calgar, Pedro and normal Chapter Masters give you access to Honour Guard, and I'd agree with the others that the Idaho Pattern is perhaps the best one out there.

 

However, that doesn't mean that there aren't other patterns, it's about experimenting.

 

One of the best reasons to take Pedro is Inspiring Presence. Look at it as a discount on having to get a proper Chapter Banner, or buy one and use them in different areas, to get a bigger field of +1 attack. Units of Sternguard supporting an Honour Guard assault would be nasty if you've covered half the board with +1 attack auras.

 

I wouldn't take Calgar just for Honour Guard, too expensive, and more often than not you're trying to fit in a Land Raider, again, too expensive. So I'd say it's between Pedro and a standard Chapter Master. Equipped correctly, they both cost about the same as well. If you want Stubborn, scoring Sternguard and either a cheap or two +1 attack auras, then Pedro is your man. If you don't want any of them, go for a normal chap with relic blade and storm shield, and if you have the points left over come back to him and give him artificer armour and digi weapons.

 

Hope that's helped somewhat ;).

[DerekLee688]

Thanks to all replies. HG are blessed/cursed with good upgrades. AGL may or may not be worth their points but half price relic blades will be the death of mine.

 

I'm considering a StormRaven for transporting them. Legal or not they will be used in friendly games by myself or others, but that's for another thread. The Storm Raven is another assault ramp transport and starts off cheaper than a land raider. Two will be manditory because of how high priority they are, but running one with Honor guard and another transporting a venerable dread will make both dangerous.

[Xeonic]

With all the I4 power weapon attacks in the unit, pedro would be fairly well protected and very alone striking at I1 if you put him in with them. Plus you could leave him in the transport for his +1A aura against anything likely to mince him. Basically as long as he's not in base to base with a DCCW, Fist or hammer he should be fine assaulting(if there's only one fist or hammer in a squad it's not much of a problem), and even so he's not really more at risk than a standard captain(without a SS), as he would get his round of simultaneous attacks against the fist anyways. What he misses out on is the attacking first that a relic blade gets, and the typical attendant SS 3++, but even if he gets thunderhammered he'll get his simultaneous vengeance strikes.

 

I personally plan to field Calgar in PA to run honor guard(morale what now?), or my standard RB+SS captain model upgraded to master. Argueably the points hike from captain to master is worth the points for the damage potential of orbital bombardment alone, but ability to take honor guard instead of a command squad is also a nice trade in some roles. I was planning on putting my chapter master or Calgar in a separate transport(probably a combat squad with a fist and flamer) from the honor guard and taking a chapter banner to provide two discreet threats. As my unit will be initially rhino borne(I lack a land raider ATM) it's important to spread the threats out. In addition Calgar's rhino will probably remain stationary for 1st turn to unleash that opening OB drop, and keeping the honor guard stationary with him is undesirable at best. I have a pedro stand in model but I think with his powerful shooting he is more ideal to be put in with sternguard where his I1 is less of a disadvantage. I also don't like stubborn over combat tactics personally, but it's alright.

 

IMO, in order of desirability:

 

Calgar gets rerolls to his attack rolls, all of them. He's got a powersword to strike at I and with the rerolls that's a really potent option to have as well as the two fists of fury. His AP2 storm bolter with the rerolls are also quite potent, but the main thing about him is his completely removing the morale mechanic as an issue for his army, which is huge. Eternal warrior is amazing as well and lets calgar go toe to toe with foes that it would normally be suicidal to go against. The 55 pts he costs over a RB+SS, atri armor, digi weapons chapter master is worth it IMO for all his awesomesauce, moreso if you spent the points to put him in termi armor. If points are a factor though you can trim the captain down by 25 pts and still have a capable combat character though, which is worth considering. 250pts(+termie option) is a steal IMO, but could also be a liability as it is a significant points investment in one model. The 3x honor guard squad thing is a little silly IMO and really unviable until 2k pts or so running a second unit with Tigurius in a second land raider.

 

Standard master has the advantage of being totally generic and thus cheap. The small price hike over a captain can be considered an investment into the damage potential of Orbital Bombardment and other than that he operates exactly the same way. Nothing great to be said here, but nothing bad either, OB is a big gamble. My CM model is also used as a captain and is equipped with RB+SS, plus I run him as having AA and Digi weapons(plus or minus a meltabomb) to maximize his survivability vs all types of threats as well as his damage output. He'll run 170-200 pts with a few key upgrades easily, and it may be wise to just keep him cheap and invest the points elsewhere.

 

Pedro is nice in that he makes sternguard scoring and has a +1A bubble. If you're taking sternguard he's your man for sure, but even without he's worth considering. The major downside is that he's armed appropriately with a Fist, effectively "wasting" his heightened I. He's incredibly nice in transport(especially land raider) as the +1A bubble is measured from the vehicles hull. One plus/minus of him is armywide stubborn. With it you cannot combat tactics out of combat but instead must stay stuck in as long as you keep passing rerollable morale checks, but on the other hand it makes you much less likely to flee at inopportune moments. I'd like to reiterate in case you didn't pick it up, but pedro is very much a support HQ rather than a combat juggernaut, he's got relatively good firepower(assault4 AP4 storm bolter!) for a captain character and his buff is at least as valueable as his (not inconsequential, mind you) personal combat ability. He can still butcher marines wholesale with that fist mind you, but he can be instant death'd on a 4+ by another fist, hammer or DCCW(DCCW are generally bad for HQs though!) At 175 pts he's a bargain compared to even a standard chapter master, but basically requires the armylist be built around his stubborn and attack aura(not to mention the scoring sternguard thing is incredibly nice).

 

IMO the honor guard itself is pretty beefy just with a relic blade or hammer on the champ, that and the banner plus a few extra bodies are the only upgrades I see as necessary. In the marine dex in peticular it's super easy to get carried away with upgrades on units that already perform adequately by themselves.

[Captain Idaho]

I find it difficult to justify Calgar, a Landraider AND a Honour Guard in a single army. But it isn't impossible to work, provided you are bold enough with them and use them aggressively enough to either suck in disproporitionate firepower or kill plenty of stuff.

 

As you may have guessed from the suggest pattern of Honour Guard, I prefer a Master with Storm Shield and a Relic Blade backing up the squad. Still expensive by survivable and down right annoying for opponents to kill without losing an eye in return!

 

There are other ways of getting a cheaper Master in though. For 140pts you can have a basic Master with Power weapon and Bolt Pistol, but he still get's a 4+ Invulnerable save which is pretty good and get's 5 attacks basic with that Chapter Banner, 6 on a charge. Ain't too shabby :P Of course, 155pts gets a Plasma Pistol also.

 

Calgar is a beast and can go with a Tactical squad and still do some real damage being Calgar and all, which is what I would probably do with him next time I get the chance. If you take Honour Guard in his army you essentially have a unit which can fight independently, though loses alot of survivability and isn't as likely to be able to take on as many varied units as when with an IC.

 

I gotta agree with what has been said about Kantor. Striking last doesn't go well with a character that isn't particularly survivable when he is used with a powerful assault unit. I rate him better when he is with a shooting unit.

[Br0ther Rafen]

Calgar and 3 Honour Guard squads are just nasty, but they make the average deathstar look cheap 1000 points+.

Really, Calgar and company are just stupidly expensive.

I like my generic Master with Arti armour, SS and RB, but he is expensive 190 points oe something.

Pedro is a good way to go, but I personely like to have my CC monster to accompany the Guard or support others, etc.

my 2 cents