HsojVvad Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 P.S. don't want this to get confused with what I just wrote. Please Wrist, if you are going to debate, alot of great posts were made to PROVE that P.27 is correct and RWA Speeder is a Scoring uint. You have dismissed everthing mentioned and keep using your same debate over again without rebuttling anyone else. So please go back to all the points you do not agree with and rebutle these rules please. Otherwise you are not proving your point. Isiah and Chapter Lucifier has made some excellent points that you haven't even acknowledged and rebuttalled. Please explain why their points are not valid please. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220814-page-27/page/3/#findComment-2650810 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 With the 5th ed came a major change that made only non-vehicle Troop scoring. This applies to all armies of the game. Since C:DA came out prior to this major change there are statements in the 'dex that no longer apply. No. That is not how the relationship between the core rule book and Codexes works. As has been stated, Codexes override the rule book until / unless the Codex or a subsequent Codex FAQ tells us otherwise. Ultimately you can play the rule how you like – but it won't be the official way (such as it is) – merely a house rule B). Cheers I Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220814-page-27/page/3/#findComment-2650825 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrist Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I would like a confirmation from GW that the statement concerning scoring on p. 27 still holds true, even with the new scoring rules of the game. This is just my personal view, but I want to be absolutely sure that I'm not cheating. I'm not judging anyone that use scoring speeders, I'm just saying that I don't since I'm not 99% sure that that is how GW intends it to work. But that's me. Like I said: I don't blame you guys for interpreting it the other way. Neither do I say that you are wrong, I might be wrong, but until I'm sure of which is right I'll play it the way that gives me the least benefit, just to be sure. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220814-page-27/page/3/#findComment-2651262 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleDV8 Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Well there have been 3 FAQ's put out for the DA codex since 5th came out. I think they have had more than enough chances to change it if they wished to. Yes , it is an exception to the general rules but thats what a codex is for. So, barring that I will treat them as "independent scoring units of a single model" just like the codex tells us. Well if I ever see one ran,heh. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220814-page-27/page/3/#findComment-2651334 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValourousHeart Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I find it fascinating that this argument has gone on this long... over a unit that I and maybe only 3 other players actually use. It would be one thing if it were a model with rules like the WFB skaven hell pit abomination. But it is just a dang speeder... as everyone is apt to tell me, it can be taken out with a bolter. So I am just curious to hear from the nay-say-ers... what are you afraid of? Don't you have enough bolters in your army to kill a speeder or 4. * for those that don't play WFB * the hell pit abomination has a stat line like a Nid MC and has a rule that if you manage to kill it... make a roll and it can stand back up will all 6 of its wounds. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220814-page-27/page/3/#findComment-2651700 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrist Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I play with it, from time to time, so I guess I'm one of the other three... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220814-page-27/page/3/#findComment-2651817 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HsojVvad Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I would like a confirmation from GW that the statement concerning scoring on p. 27 still holds true, even with the new scoring rules of the game. This is just my personal view, but I want to be absolutely sure that I'm not cheating. I'm not judging anyone that use scoring speeders, I'm just saying that I don't since I'm not 99% sure that that is how GW intends it to work. But that's me. Like I said: I don't blame you guys for interpreting it the other way. Neither do I say that you are wrong, I might be wrong, but until I'm sure of which is right I'll play it the way that gives me the least benefit, just to be sure. Have you picked up the phone and called the 1 800 number? Then again do you need GW to tell you that if SM can rapid fire, or if SM can run? It's in their in black and white. You are pretty stubborn about this, espically when you will not give rebutals. I just find it funny how you will not give a rebutal. It is fine that is how you play it, but for you to go on you have, and then not be considerate enough to acknowladge other peoples reply is, just shamefull on your part. Pretty sad, we go all the length to explain ourselves and you are basically saying we are wrong. So I am just curious to hear from the nay-say-ers... what are you afraid of? Don't you have enough bolters in your army to kill a speeder or 4. Actually it's only ONE speeder. All the other speeders are not scoring. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220814-page-27/page/3/#findComment-2651880 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I would like a confirmation from GW that the statement concerning scoring on p. 27 still holds true, even with the new scoring rules of the game. wrist, the confirmation from GW you request is called: "Codex: Dark Angels". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220814-page-27/page/3/#findComment-2651973 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I play with it, from time to time, so I guess I'm one of the other three... I use my RAS tornado sometimes too, although it never survives long enough for its scoring status to become an issue. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220814-page-27/page/3/#findComment-2652038 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HsojVvad Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I play with it, from time to time, so I guess I'm one of the other three... I use my RAS tornado sometimes too, although it never survives long enough for its scoring status to become an issue. :P Oh I have laughed at this. See it's easy to deal with, scoring unit or not. Sorry I didn't mean to laugh at you, but the way you just wrote it, made me laugh. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220814-page-27/page/3/#findComment-2652063 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Gabriel Macleod Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 If you look at the Stormraven it break the rule as well. The rule states that you can't disenbark unit from transport that move Flat out but the Stormraven allows this a occur. You pay a price for this ability but you get it. So the last RAS Lander Speeder break the rule by being a scoring unit even though the rule book say you can't. I spoke with some of Games workshop tester and designers all have said the Codex overrides the rule book. GW knows about the RAS rule and stand by them without question. I have spoken to many of them over the last 20 years and have form some friendship with some of them. My friends have all said the same thing that the codex always overrides the core rules. the Land Speeder is always a scoring unit of one. Just my two cents. MGM Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220814-page-27/page/3/#findComment-2652135 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrist Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I would like a confirmation from GW that the statement concerning scoring on p. 27 still holds true, even with the new scoring rules of the game. This is just my personal view, but I want to be absolutely sure that I'm not cheating. I'm not judging anyone that use scoring speeders, I'm just saying that I don't since I'm not 99% sure that that is how GW intends it to work. But that's me. Like I said: I don't blame you guys for interpreting it the other way. Neither do I say that you are wrong, I might be wrong, but until I'm sure of which is right I'll play it the way that gives me the least benefit, just to be sure. Have you picked up the phone and called the 1 800 number? Then again do you need GW to tell you that if SM can rapid fire, or if SM can run? It's in their in black and white. You are pretty stubborn about this, espically when you will not give rebutals. I just find it funny how you will not give a rebutal. It is fine that is how you play it, but for you to go on you have, and then not be considerate enough to acknowladge other peoples reply is, just shamefull on your part. Pretty sad, we go all the length to explain ourselves and you are basically saying we are wrong. So I am just curious to hear from the nay-say-ers... what are you afraid of? Don't you have enough bolters in your army to kill a speeder or 4. Actually it's only ONE speeder. All the other speeders are not scoring. First of all: You use a very self-righteous tone in your replies, that I hardly find friendly. Second: You really missed the part where I specificaly stated that, and I quote myself: Neither do I say that you are wrong, I might be wrong... My only rebutal is this: Which units that are scoring is a core rule, and the core rules have changed since our 'dex came out. Depending on how you look on things this might also affect the DA-units. When the text box on p.27 of Codex:DA was written all units including vehicles where scoring according to the core rules but now that has changed drastically. What I'm doing is safeing, and I apply that change all over the board. How does what I do affect you? I choose to play my RAS Speeders as non-scoring. Why is that such a problem for you? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220814-page-27/page/3/#findComment-2652436 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Kovash Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 This reminds me of the argument I had with someone after I fired using my assault cannon with my Terminator Squad and then charged in the assault phase. He claimed that you can't assault after firing a heavy weapon, which is true in the rulebook, but TDA gives a model relentless, which means yes I can assault. Codex > rulebook when it comes to contradictions, GW even admits it themselves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220814-page-27/page/3/#findComment-2652438 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Avoghai Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 My only rebutal is this: Which units that are scoring is a core rule, and the core rules have changed since our 'dex came out. Depending on how you look on things this might also affect the DA-units. When the text box on p.27 of Codex:DA was written all units including vehicles where scoring according to the core rules but now that has changed drastically. What I'm doing is safeing, and I apply that change all over the board. Fact is : you've used the word ''cheating'' which implies that those playing the tornado and AB as scroring may be cheaters (please note by the way that normal count as scoring only if sammael is taken.). Then you also forget to consider one important point that everybody repeat for the beginning of the thread : since 2007, 3 versions of the faq were released, the 1st one was made in particular to clarify the codex at the release of v5. GW never corrected this in any of th 3 versions. now maybe you're right when considrring that it was noy their initial intention to make the LS scoring in v5, now they also may have thought : '' ok guys it's now obvious that codex : DA is a failure, the army is clearly week, let's not correct this point to re-balance the RW a little'' See? even when thinking about RAI and not RAW you can find justifications... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220814-page-27/page/3/#findComment-2652533 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanhausen Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 3 pages... As Isiah said it: he knows he's playing a house rule, period. [i was actually going to write more but... feel tired even before trying!] Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220814-page-27/page/3/#findComment-2652667 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HsojVvad Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 First of all: You use a very self-righteous tone in your replies, that I hardly find friendly. Sorry about that, I did not mean to be self-righteous, for that I appologize. Second: You really missed the part where I specificaly stated that, and I quote myself: Neither do I say that you are wrong, I might be wrong... No I didn't miss this part. While yes you admit you may be wrong, BUT you kept the debate going. To have a debate one person says something, then someone comments on that then the other person should be commenting on what the other person has said. I guess I got upset when you don't acknowladge what others have said, so your debate becomes onesided. To say "I may be wrong" doesn't add to the debate. I can see if you said "well I see I may or was wrong, but I still play it this way. This way you acknowladged you were wrong, but still like to play the way you do. Nothing wrong in that. It seems you still seem to think you are right, but you do not explain why you are right to correct what others have said. My only rebutal is this: Which units that are scoring is a core rule, and the core rules have changed since our 'dex came out. Depending on how you look on things this might also affect the DA-units. When the text box on p.27 of Codex:DA was written all units including vehicles where scoring according to the core rules but now that has changed drastically. What I'm doing is safeing, and I apply that change all over the board. Again, see, you have not rebutalled what anyone has said? What are you rebuttalling? Chaper Isahs comments? Whos comments are you rebuttling? You are debating one sided which is not fair. You only keep brining up your side. How does what I do affect you? I choose to play my RAS Speeders as non-scoring. Why is that such a problem for you? This doesn't effect me. I say you can play any way you like, just like how I like to play anyway I like. <_< I'm not convinced.My personal view is still this: This is what you said the 2nd time posting in this thread. You are not convinced. So people tried to convince you. You have said in other posts you needed proof and that GW has to tell you that it's a scoring unit. Thing is, people right or wrong tried to help you out. We all have personal views. We have explained our personal views, but no matter what we say, it seems it's not good enough. If you don't want to debate it, then fine, please say so, but reading what I just quoted seemed like you did want to debate the rule or discuss it. It's sort of hard to discuss or debate a rule when you don't acknowladge what others have said. I guess you don't want to really debate the rule, so I shall end this here on my part. Just my last words, I do apologize if I came out self-righteous, that was not my intent :P. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220814-page-27/page/3/#findComment-2652675 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 OK I think we're done here. Things are going around in circles and getting heated. And when the word "cheating" appears, well.... the end. Anyone have a burning desire to add something sensible that hasn't already been said, please feel free to PM a DA mod. In the meantime.... Cheers I Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220814-page-27/page/3/#findComment-2652688 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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