Grimtooth Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 So I just finally read and finished Prospero Burns. I am going to side with the people that enjoyed this book. In fact I will say that so far this is my absolut favorite book of the HH series above Flight of the Eisenstein and Fulgrim. However this thread is not about the book. I look back on almost all the incarnations of my Space Wolves and see how badly I have represented them with my eyes now opened by Prospero Burns. My closest representation, which even then I see glaring faults, would have been my 13th Co army during the Eye of Terror campaign. I am selling everything. All 6000pts is going and I am starting over with Prospero Burns and Thousand Sons cradled open at my hobby desk to do justice for the Sixth Legion. Be back with updates when I can. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220830-i-have-been-wrong-for-so-long/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaveriK Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 One man's loss is another man's gain. Just think of it as.. whom ever will get your old army, will be a lucky fellow. I look forward to your new army wolf brother! keep us posted. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220830-i-have-been-wrong-for-so-long/#findComment-2637121 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 I will be honest Mav. I have seen your thread, seen your conversions, all before I read Prospero Burns and really wondered just what the hell you were doing. I understand now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220830-i-have-been-wrong-for-so-long/#findComment-2637125 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaveriK Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 sometimes I don't even know what I'm doing :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220830-i-have-been-wrong-for-so-long/#findComment-2637150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Care to elaborate Brother Ramses? What do you think you have "done wrong" in representing your Wolves? More importantly, perhaps, what do you intend to do to correct it? Valerian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220830-i-have-been-wrong-for-so-long/#findComment-2637164 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaveriK Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 i think its safe to say that there is no right or wrong when it comes to a person's vision on how they want to represent their space wolves. kinda like how artist depict Leman Russ. In one picture/painting he is seen with red hair, on another with brown, etc. But as wolf brother Valerian says; what do you think you have done wrong? and what do you intend to do to correct it. --EDIT-- ps, i'd hold onto your mech! you can replace and repaint troops but you'll need your mech when you start playing again. just a thought! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220830-i-have-been-wrong-for-so-long/#findComment-2637168 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 So I just finally read and finished Prospero Burns. I am going to side with the people that enjoyed this book. In fact I will say that so far this is my absolut favorite book of the HH series above Flight of the Eisenstein and Fulgrim. However this thread is not about the book. I look back on almost all the incarnations of my Space Wolves and see how badly I have represented them with my eyes now opened by Prospero Burns. My closest representation, which even then I see glaring faults, would have been my 13th Co army during the Eye of Terror campaign. I am selling everything. All 6000pts is going and I am starting over with Prospero Burns and Thousand Sons cradled open at my hobby desk to do justice for the Sixth Legion. Be back with updates when I can. one thing i want to point out before you sell 6k of Wolves... The Wolves of "Prospero Burns" were the Wolves of the Great Crusade era. while this may be common sense, the Astartes of that time period were quite different from the Astartes we have today. The role is different, their recruiting methods, appearance, mentality and support is different than the earlier Marines. This doesnt make your view of the Wolves wrong, or the modern view of the Wolves wrong, cause they arent the same entity they were 10,000 years ago. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220830-i-have-been-wrong-for-so-long/#findComment-2637201 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Runner Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 6000pts is a lot of money. Maybe you should try stripping some first and see how it goes. If I get what you're meaning you don't exactly want to do pre-heresy army, just an army that is in tone more with Prospero burns? Is that correct? If that is the case then check out the Space Wolves Blog for some useful hints here. If on the other hand you actually want to do a Pre-Heresy army it is going to cost you since you will have to buy new helmets and use different torsos and legs. It is a big investment. Good luck and post some pics. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220830-i-have-been-wrong-for-so-long/#findComment-2637213 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 To answer most of the questions, everything is wrong IMO. The heads I used are wrong, the paint job, pack markings, accessories.....everything. I laid out my army after reading that book and realized that I was drawn in by the concept of the current Space Wolves canon yet they are so much more to then what is just presented by GW to draw in the masses. I want the look of my army to not be the cookie cutter stereotype of what you see on the Eavy Metal pages in the codex or battle reports. That is what is meant to sell the product. I need to step up my skills and creative juices to create an army I want to represent what I have read. This isn't about Heresy versus pre-Heresy look, but the vibe of what Prospero Burns has created in my mind. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220830-i-have-been-wrong-for-so-long/#findComment-2637991 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulf Vengis Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Ramses is referring to the feel of the army. To him, his wolves justy dont feel like Vlka Fenryka of the VIth legion or Space Wolves. I know how he feels and what hes thinking, when 4th edition came out I had the same thought of my wolves and undertook a very similar task. Ive only just recently rebuilt the last of my own 6k army and it still feels like a little off, but Im closer now. So to Ramses I say good luck brother and may Russ guide you. I look forward to seeing youre wolves now that youve had this epiphany. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220830-i-have-been-wrong-for-so-long/#findComment-2638180 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamsight Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 I am impressed by your dedication to the idea of how to represent the Space wolves but 6000pts is a lot of models. How long did it take you too build them? and while you feel they are all wrong as others have said the 30k wolves are very different from 40k wolves if you read this month's WD you will see that Dan Abentt went to great lengths to show that as well. Still if you feel that strongly about it then you should, it is always good to reach for new targets and test your skills and point of views. I properly won't find this thread again so I will wish you good luck Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220830-i-have-been-wrong-for-so-long/#findComment-2638181 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarapham Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 There is nothing stopping you from having both "feels" at the same time, because perhaps you will change your mind later and regret this. Perhaps you could see it more as an extra hobby where you pay attention to every minute detail about the models and such which would take a lot of time, but if you keep your old army as well you can still use it to play games and therefor not stress about the new project and just replace things as you go along? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220830-i-have-been-wrong-for-so-long/#findComment-2638297 Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthrex354 Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 i still love bill king's aleand wenches space wolves best.i loved prosepero burns and the whole emperors executioners theme, but to me the crazy brightly colored space wolves can be just as bad ass as the grumpy no fun abnett wolves Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220830-i-have-been-wrong-for-so-long/#findComment-2638355 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Wilhelm Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 To answer most of the questions, everything is wrong IMO. The heads I used are wrong, the paint job, pack markings, accessories.....everything. I laid out my army after reading that book and realized that I was drawn in by the concept of the current Space Wolves canon yet they are so much more to then what is just presented by GW to draw in the masses. I want the look of my army to not be the cookie cutter stereotype of what you see on the Eavy Metal pages in the codex or battle reports. That is what is meant to sell the product. I need to step up my skills and creative juices to create an army I want to represent what I have read. This isn't about Heresy versus pre-Heresy look, but the vibe of what Prospero Burns has created in my mind. It seems the discontent in your heart has welled up, brother. You have my sympathy. Change is rarely easy. What you are wanting to do will cost a lot, in dollars and in time. Are you able to salvage some/all of the old models by just chopping old heads off and stripping the paint? I look at Mjolnir's wolves, and even C:EoT, and really love the grey scheme and the more serious vibe that Abnett presents. How many models and what kinds do you have? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220830-i-have-been-wrong-for-so-long/#findComment-2638484 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levitas Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Well, as said earlier they are your wolves, and each of our unique interpretations of the chapter is what makes them so cool. Love it or hate Prospero Burns has certainly added to the wolves long and proud history. I personally don't see anything wrong with the fluff that is in the codex while still being able to enjoy and accept Abbnets heresy wolves. The key is 10,000 years. Just stop for a moment and contemplate that amount of time. A lot has happened since the heresy and time erodes even the best kept traditions and philosophies. All the chapters are faded copies of the legions they began as, not so much weaker but they have adapted and changed to the crumbling Imperium. Would Rogal Dorn condone the nature of the Black Templars, or Sanguinus the ways of the flesh tearers? The point is 10,000 years. That allows both Abbnets wolves, and those we see in the codex to exist in the same big picture of who the 6th legion are. It doesnt auto erase what the wolves are now, they are simply different. 6k is a lot of models. No point in throwing the wolf cub out with the baby water, but look forward to see what you come up with.... ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220830-i-have-been-wrong-for-so-long/#findComment-2638493 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Scourge Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 I have to echo the sentiments of a few here. These are not Space Wolves. They are an entirely different form of our beloved chapter. They speak a language that no longer exists on Fenris. They have traditions that are long forgotten. Remember...10,000 years. 10,000 years on a death world. 10,000 years on a death world sparsely populated by primitive nomadic tribes. 10,000 years on a death world sparsely populated by a multitude of different primitive warmongering nomadic tribes that pass their history down orally. IE people die and history is erased several times in a single century. How many 10,000 year old traditions are still around today? Hell, we have the benefit of a written language and comprehensive record keeping. We've forgotten traditions that were firmly in place fifty years ago. That having been said, if you're having fun who cares. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220830-i-have-been-wrong-for-so-long/#findComment-2638665 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfpack Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 After losing most of my army to another, I can tell you that it is expensive...especially at the current price rate...that being said I feel your reservations with how you think the wolves should be as opposed to how we see them in their multitude of guises throughout the range of fluff and canon...it is a shame that GW does not use the feed back they receive to create what we as players hope to see from them... Good luck to you my brother...I see a long hard road ahead of you Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220830-i-have-been-wrong-for-so-long/#findComment-2639130 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 If your army is built to look like the ones in the Codex and White Dwarf, I'm sure Dan Abnett himself would say you haven't done anything wrong at all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220830-i-have-been-wrong-for-so-long/#findComment-2639473 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freman Bloodglaive Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 I can sympathise with your position, but even if I felt the same I wouldn't sell 6000 points of wolves. GW is an expensive hobby. It was never a cheap hobby, but it's more expensive now. To replace 6000 points will cost you a lot in time and money. To be honest, I'd say let it go. If you want some 30k wolves then add them to your army, don't replace it. Repainting with Codex Grey instead of Shadow, repainting the pack markings in a style more suited to your vision, don't worry about the heads. Revising your squad organisation if that helps. My swiftclaws have become Codex bikers since they're now less than useful in my thunderwolf based army (I rarely used them anyway). All it took was a lick of paint, and a few meltaguns. My biker Lord is now a marine captain on bike with his chainaxe relic blade. A new coat of paint can cover many sins. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220830-i-have-been-wrong-for-so-long/#findComment-2639662 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulf Vengis Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Again I think some of you may be missing the point hes making. Its not necessarily that he wants 30k wolves so much as when he looks at the table he just sees tiny little men in blue/grey armor. It just doesnt speak to him like he thought, the models are too static, the poses arent dramatic enough or any other number of things could be wrong in his mental vision of the army. To be honest, replacing the models may seem insane or rediculous to some of you, but trust me its actually easier to just replace the models. If you ever experiance(sp) this same feeling someday youll know what I mean. I hope I didnt offend anyone. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220830-i-have-been-wrong-for-so-long/#findComment-2639691 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 I've actually faced this dilemma in the past myself with my first army, so I understand where the OP is coming from. One's opinion's (and painting/modeling skills) from their first day in the hobby to even just a few years later will change dramatically. I eventually went with selling a part of the army, while keeping those models which had bits and parts I wanted to keep for the next army. I bought a few bottles of 'Mean Green' ($1.00 at Dollar General) and soaked those models, while I sold the rest to fund the next army. Between the profits from the sold army and the money saved from reusing the stipped parts, I was able to build a 2000 pt army for only an extra $50. Just food for thought, brother. I feel your pain, go with what you feel is right, and best of luck with your future build. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220830-i-have-been-wrong-for-so-long/#findComment-2639718 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Son of Russ Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 i am having second thoughts now and i have not even read the bloody book crap Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220830-i-have-been-wrong-for-so-long/#findComment-2640512 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted January 31, 2011 Author Share Posted January 31, 2011 Just to clarify some things: Yes I know it has been 10000 years. Keeping in mind the lifespan of Astartes, that time span loses a liitle bit of its luster. Also, our reference for Fenrisian culture is tainted by the candy coated Space Wolf novels. Don't get me wrong, but the difference between the portrayal of the culture is pretty huge, but I did enjoy both portrayals. I believe now that due to Fenris itself, the culture would not have advanced as many of you think. I also want to mention that Amon is still alive per direction of Leman Russ himself. That history, that version of the Wolves lives on albeit in stasis. Out of all the Legions, the importance on maintaining the traditions and legacy seems very high within the 6th Legion. Bjorn carries that "vision" of the Wolves when he is awoken. The annulus is still based on how Russ set it. 1000heathens has it correct. The poses, the gearing, the feel of my army is completely off in my eyes now. The runes placed on what I deemed cool seem so false now. I want marks of aversion, gs manes, tattooed faces, animalistic masks, furs, trinkets, axes beyond what is provided, etc, etc. I already bought 3 boxes of Wolves, 3 boxes of SM, and two boxes of Wolfguard terminators. My funding for building armies is just fine for me to sell off my current army. Here is it boiled down in my opinion: Codex Space Wolves made me want to buy and play Space Wolves. Prospero Burns has made me want to collect the 6th Legion. Now just a matter of properly combining the two. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220830-i-have-been-wrong-for-so-long/#findComment-2641686 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfpack Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 And Thus is a true Wolf Lord born...Grats on your epiphany My Brother... as you seem to have the funds ...I say go get em Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220830-i-have-been-wrong-for-so-long/#findComment-2641697 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 well, atleast GW is going to be happy... WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/220830-i-have-been-wrong-for-so-long/#findComment-2642132 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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