IA: Sky Sentinels

[Heru]

It's good. You are firmly into the stage where you polish. Well done.

- :P I may now die in peace, for Octavulg has been pleased with a selection of my writing. *hears the angelic choir and glorifying trumpets*

Oh dear that isn't good, you are supposed to hear the original TV Batman theme tune...

[Marshal Renatus]

*Ahem* Helps to actually post the changes you just discussed. [facepalm]

 

@Heru: That's once I get to the Pearly Gates...I'm still in transition, lol.

[Octavulg]

First, let me say that I fervently hope you were imbibing "inexpensive" wine and not "cheap" wine. Two things no man should ever have "cheap" applied to; wine and cigars. The thought of you guzzling wine from a box is...disconcerting, lol.

 

It was, indeed, simply inexpensive.

 

Though I have had a good boxed wine. Once.

 

I disagree. I like these here. They could fit in organization, but I feel they are central to the founding of the chapter and belong in Origins.

 

Thing is, they're not. Their role may be central, but their equipment? Not really.

 

- I've shortened it up considerably, but that is about all I'm willing to cut from this area. I already have sidebars in the area, and I don't want to over-do them.

 

You could cut the Battle Honors...

 

- Baked into the Codex my good man. As Guilliman was one of the last surviving/present primarchs, we should assume he put the best of his brothers in the book as well. And if not...so what, lol? You don't hear the Blood Angels or Iron Hands lamenting that they don't know enough about the teachings of Dorn. Guilliman is their Primarch and it is his word they revere. If the others wanted such adoration they shoud have written a Codex of their own. (That hurt my soul to type that.)

 

I'd almost think you painted your armies in blue... :)

 

- I have attempted that. Let me know what you think.

 

Not sure you got what I'm after.

 

I was thinking something more like:

 

"The loss of the Shield of Terra cost the Sky Sentinels many of their most prized relics. Only a few items were saved in the mad scramble from the wreckage, and proper stock of those could not be taken until the chapter had returned to Pranganar. There, the acolytes of the Reclusiam discovered that they had saved the chapter's most prized relic - an ancient copy of Guilliman’s great work, the Codex Astartes, the Sky Sentinels' greatest gift from the Black Consuls. The copy reputedly dates back to the days of Guilliman himself, and may be one of the first copies ever made of his original work. Swathed in a burnt, blood-stained cloth, its recovery from the dark, burning corridors of the Shield of Terra was nothing short of miraculous. The Sky Sentinels have taken its survival as a sign that the Primarch still watches over them."

 

Less odd perspective switching.

 

- Here I blame the swill you were downing, lol. I have no idea what you're talking about, but I fixed it anyway.

 

.

 

- They are willing to share the knowledge, but they aren't school teachers. Like the Black Consuls, they are uncompromising and fairly arrogant, even for Astartes. That's why the quirk about not exposing their faces to non-Space Marines. They just don't get that honor.

 

It just feels like a really weird quirk. Ah well.

 

- Back to an earlier conversation, the Codex covers a wide selection of topics and was written by a warrior who maintained not only his Legion but whole Grand Armies and Naval Fleets. The Codex would certainly discuss the practical uses of such "combat enhancers" to the Astartes forces, and would almost certainly discuss what a good IG or IN force should be capable of doing. Additionally, it's not unheard of for Space Marines to train/advise IG forces. The UMs did it on Tarsis Ultra and the Blood Ravens did it on Pavonis I believe. Those were instances where the battle required it, but the Sky Sentinels are proactive about it. Why not know the force you are taking the field with is well-trained versus having to make emergency corrections?

 

Fair enough.

 

- But I am a benevolent author. Besides, this goes back to the arrogance piece. They always say it in high gothic, just to establish that they are the Sky Sentinels...and you are not.

 

Definitely don't translate it, then.

 

- jawdrop.gif I may now die in peace, for Octavulg has been pleased with a selection of my writing. *hears the angelic choir and glorifying trumpets*

 

I was pleased with it last time. I'm usually pleased with what you write. It just can be improved. :D

[Marshal Renatus]

Thing is, they're not. Their role may be central, but their equipment? Not really.

You could cut the Battle Honors...

- Agree to disagree.

 

I'd almost think you painted your armies in blue... :)

- well, they are a dark, dark blue. Truth be told, I hate the UltraSmurfs and all that they stand for. All that "we're so awesome, look at us, revere the gound we walk on" B.S. I almost had a schism between the chapter and the UMs over the loss of the Black Consuls, but I couldn't make it work. Hate me some Smurfs.

 

Not sure you got what I'm after.

- Stolen without hesitation.

 

Your lack of a classical education is sad and worrying.

- Not a Seinfeld fan...that explains this.

 

It just feels like a really weird quirk. Ah well.

- It is. The Black Consuls would get really uptight/offended if a normal human talked about the Codex. I have taken that aspect of the arrogance from the Chapter but given them a new one, they never show their faces to non-Astartes. It's like they're living in two worlds. On one hand, they want to be the deliverers of the Codex to the Imperium. On the other, they want to be greater than the UMs and believe themselves to be, which leads to certain manifestations of arrogance.

 

Definitely don't translate it, then.

-Check.

 

Again, thank you all for the C&C. As usual, Octavulg has been quite the resource.

 

**All this typed under the influence of an exceptionally good bottle of Pinot Noir**

[Shinzaren]

Went over it again, and brought up a few of the same points and a few new ones.

 

Recognizing the expansive nature of this mission, the Chapter was equipped and trained for mobility and responsiveness beyond that of a standard Astartes force

This still rankles me. It immediately tells the reader that your Chapter is better than the other Astartes. Since every Astartes is designed for this exact mission [rapid response and assault], saying you have better, faster ships just doesn't make sense.

 

They were furnished with the latest models of rapid response vessels and strike cruisers and the massive battle barge Shield of Terra, while for land combat they were presented with an expansive compliment of Rhino transports, as well as an impressive fleet of Thunderhawk gunships.

 

The reverse side of this boon was that the chapter was, unfortunately, denied much of the heavier equipment seen amongst the Astartes; less than half the usual number of Land Raider and Predator tanks, less than a quarter of their expected Vindicators, and not one Whirlwind artillery system. It is unknown whether this was by intentional design or is simply an indicator of how precariously thin the Imperium’s forgeworlds were stretched during this time.

Land Raiders might be sparse, but straits can't be all that dire if you are getting a lot of the more expensive stuff. Also, if you are getting so many Rhinos, it is hard to believe you aren't getting Whirlwinds, Predators, and Vindicators, all of which are based on the Rhino chassis. Obviously the Land Raider is the exception here, so that being missing doesn't really bother me. The others though...you would have those. Especially since they are all as fast as a Rhino and fulfill a valuable tactical role.

 

Aided by the foresight of the Chapter Librarium and using precision assaults on suspected Ork command nodes, the Sky Sentinels pre-empted several Waaagh’s before they could materialize.

This sounds suspiciously familiar... Didn't Tigerius do the EXACT same thing for Calgar and his lads?

 

It was during this time that the Sentinels first came into contact with the Dark Hunters, a brother chapter recently founded and posted to the segmentum. Forging a bond through the crucible of battle, the combined forces of both Chapters have stood against their numberless enemies on many occasions. When word reached the Chapter that the Dark Hunters were being tasked with the destruction of a particularly vicious and destructive traitor marine faction, known as The Punishers, it was with pride that the Sky Sentinels petitioned to join the Dark Hunters on this righteous quest. Granted the privilege of destroying these stains upon the honor of all Astartes, the Sky Sentinels have split the majority of their resources between their continued pruning of the Ork menace and this new threat.

Again, you are stating that your Chapter is one of the seven Chapters listed in the Codex as hunting The Punishers. That aside, why bother with the hassle of tying yourself to another Chapter? What does this add besides making your Chapter look cool and awesome?

 

Pranagar is the sole inhabited planet in the Tellestus System. The planet spends its existence in brutally frigid conditions, and due to its erratic orbit sees less than six hours of sunlight a day. Pranagar's ecosystem is dominated by a wide variety of avian species, and some of the larger raptors are dangerous even to the Chapter's aircraft. From where, or when, the original inhabitants came is impossible to chronicle as no records exist detailing their arrival. Reconquered by the Ultramarines in the Great Crusade, the planet is a civilized world which serves as a rare model of Guillimanic efficiency outside of Ultramar.

My knowledge on the subject is woefully inadequate, but is a frigid ice world very conducive to avian life? It doesn't seem like it would be, but I am often wrong. Please don't use the words Guillimanic efficiency... It just makes me want to punch your IA... I like the Sky Sentinels. I hate the UM. Don't make the Sky Sentinels the UM :tu:

 

The Chapter's Fortress-Monastery, Fell Talon, is built into the largest mountain range on the planet's northernmost continent. Its many halls and antechambers are buried deep below and within the mountains. Where the fortress sanctuary’s entrance breaks the surface sits the formidable works of Fell Talon Keep. Designed as both a secure landing area and protection for the fortress' entrance, the keep is built into the side of the mountain itself, and is only accessible by Thunderhawk or similar shuttle aircraft. The surrounding ridgeline and peaks are studded with missile and laser positions, myriads of sensoria arrays, and massive generatorium complexes that power the defensive void shields.

The IA has been trimmed down exceedingly well, but I still think this is unnecessary. Every Fortress-Monastery is unique and awesome, and therefore doesn't need a portion of space-limited IA dedicated to it. There are exceptions, but the general rule is that every Fortress-Monastery is badass and unique.

 

Its lessons have been drilled into the Pranagar PDF, and the Chapter has been known on many occasions to spend what resources it can to educate and train those who would accept the knowledge.

Octavulg touched on this, and he seems to have accepted your answer. I however, still disagree :D I don't think the Codex would help the Guard. They follow the Tactica Imperium, which is basically the Guard Codex. Secondly, your argument that Gulliman lead a Crusade which consisted of lesser men is also flawed. While this may be true, Gulliman was [supposedly] the greatest tactical mind in the Imperium, and would therefore know best how to utilize such men. When he wrote the Codex, he was writing it for Astartes however, not for Guard. Since your Chapter is not Roboute Gulliman, it would be arrogance to use the justification that your Primarch lead them, so you should to. Third, your argument that Astartes trained Guardsmen may be correct, but they did not necessarily train them in the ways of the Codex. It is a more plausible assumption that they trained them as best they could to deal with the immediate problem, such as killing Orks.

 

The Sky Sentinels also see it as their duty to educate less-established chapters on the true meaning and implementation of the Codex. These well-meant attempts at educating and enlightening fellow Imperial servants have not always been received hospitably, and have caused strained relations with the Sky Sentinels allies on more than one occasion, indeed several less-enlightened chapters have excoriated the Sentinels for this practice.

This statement is excellent. It really showcases the fact that the Sentinels gleaming armor might have a bit of rust on it. The use of "less-enlightened" really drives the point home and gives you a good view of their mindset.

 

The Chapter’s insistence on remaining in full armor and helm in the presence of non-Astartes has been particularly distressing to many they would aid and advise. Believing that only a fellow Space Marine is worthy of truly knowing them, this particular quirk has frustrated more than a few Imperial Guard commanders and planetary leaders and resulted in less than open dialogue.

Again, this is just...odd. Not necessarily bad, just strange.

 

The Ordo Xenos of the Inquisition are the rare exception to the Chapter’s insular nature. The Sky Sentinels' many centuries of combat with the Ork menace and their more recent engagement with the Tyranid threat of Hive Fleet Leviathan have made them a favored resource for induction into the Deathwatch.

This still seems to be special for the sake of being special. A LOT of Chapters have fought Orks for a LONG time, and a A LOT of Chapters have fought in the Tyrannic wars. Why would your lads have increased odds of selection when the DW has an entire Galaxy to pick from, and would benefit highly from drawing in as many Chapters as possible to gain as much unique knowledge as possible.

 

The Sky Sentinels selected thus far have executed their duties with acknowledged skill and devotion, though the repeated deviations from Codex mandates and the exposure to aberrant chapter beliefs can be spiritually difficult for those selected. Indeed, those brothers who tread too far down this divergent path are encouraged to volunteer for permanent secondment to the Deathwatch, lest the Chapter be forced to volunteer them itself.

This is cool, the warring nature of the Codex Fanatics against their duty to the Imperium. I repeat my protest that you are volunteering however. You don't pick them. They pick you.

 

Apart from the Inquisition, the Sky Sentinels maintain necessary connections with the Adeptus Mechanicus and the Ecclesiarchy, but, beyond this, pay their credos little heed. Those Battle-Brothers who take up the mantle of Chaplain or Techmarine are unequivocally clear in their true allegiance to Emperor, Primarch, and Codex.

Again, I repeat that it doesn't make sense to list the Chaplains as having even the possibility of dual allegiance. Their Rosarius from the Ecclesiarchy is simply part of an old deal saying that the two parties will get along and not start religious wars. Chaplains have no connection or attachment to the Imperial Creed.

 

Favoring the tactic of their founder Titus Aeneas, the Sky Sentinels look to eliminate the leadership of their enemy from the start. Originally put to use by the Chapter combatting Ork infestations, the Chapter has developed it into applicability against almost any enemy. Using small groups of rapid striking Battle-Brothers, the Sentinels eliminate the enemy leadership, leaving the bulk of the forces to flounder, either fleeing or falling to in-fighting. Inserted close to the enemies’ headquarters or base camp, typically by Thunderhawk gunship for their ability to provide close air support, the Sentinels’ strike force will eliminate the enemy leadership as swiftly as possible.

Again, this is no different from how every Chapter wages war. Man bites Dog. Man bites Dog.

 

When forces allow, the Chapter will use coordinated drop pod assaults to systematically eliminate an opponent’s leadership in one fell hammer-strike, rapidly exfiltrating them by transport to prevent the Chapter’s forces from being overrun. Disoriented by the loss of their leadership, the Sky Sentinels can then begin the complete destruction of the remaining ground forces until their victory is assured.

See above. Man bites dog.

 

This iteration is much cleaner, and you have done a really good job slimming it down and distilling it into the important bits. Much easier to read, and gives a clearer picture into who the Sky Sentinels are. I really feel like I know the character of them from this IA, and it does a good job of relaying all the salient information. Nice work -_-

[Octavulg]

The IA has been trimmed down exceedingly well, but I still think this is unnecessary. Every Fortress-Monastery is unique and awesome, and therefore doesn't need a portion of space-limited IA dedicated to it. There are exceptions, but the general rule is that every Fortress-Monastery is badass and unique.

 

Every Chapter is unique and awesome, and therefore doesn't need a portion of space-limited IA dedicated to it... :rolleyes:

[Shinzaren]

Every Chapter is unique and awesome, and therefore doesn't need a portion of space-limited IA dedicated to it... :D

True... Ok guys, you heard Octavulg. All IAs are now cancelled. This has been a gigantic waste of time... I dunno how we didn't pick up on this earlier. I guess we were to close to the issue to be objective about it. :rolleyes:

[Octavulg]

It's been fun. Ferrata'll get the lights.

[NightrawenII]

My knowledge on the subject is woefully inadequate, but is a frigid ice world very conducive to avian life? It doesn't seem like it would be, but I am often wrong.

Actually, this world doesn't work at all, but I'm often accused of nitpicking and told that my opinion doesn't matter (even though I'm right :) ), so I was silent about it.

 

But this is the work of fan-fiction, not scientific study and as such, little details are unimportant. ;)

[Aegnor]

The Imperial Guard could certainly benefit from studying the Codex - the broad principles etc would be applicable. There would be much of it that doesn't translate directly (the bits about just charging people armed with stubbers or lasguns because such weapons can't harm you, for instance :) ), but if you made the effort to apply it to your situation, there'd be value. To say otherwise is like saying Sun-Tzu is no use today because we don't use horse and bow and arrows.

[Heru]

The Imperial Guard could certainly benefit from studying the Codex - the broad principles etc would be applicable. There would be much of it that doesn't translate directly (the bits about just charging people armed with stubbers or lasguns because such weapons can't harm you, for instance :) ), but if you made the effort to apply it to your situation, there'd be value. To say otherwise is like saying Sun-Tzu is no use today because we don't use horse and bow and arrows.

The Codex wasn't just created to deal with the Astartes, it was created to reorganize the entire Imperium's military strength. It's just it's Astartes portions were more strict, because RG saw the Legions as the biggest threat to the Imperium.

[Marshal Renatus]

First, I want to thank allof you for your continued assistance. Sounds cheesy, but I am truly honored to be receiving the level of assistance that I have gotten.

 

Onto responses.

 

@Shinzaren:

This still rankles me. It immediately tells the reader that your Chapter is better than the other Astartes. Since every Astartes is designed for this exact mission [rapid response and assault], saying you have better, faster ships just doesn't make sense.

- Not better, just different. The concept I have for these guys is something similar to an airborne/air assault/light infantry unit in today's military forces. They can get there very quickly and are expertly trained, but they aren't designed for protracted combat. Most chapter's could drop more troops and heavier equipment, but the Sky Sentinels cannot. So their particular style of warfare, while very similar to a standard chapter, focuses even more heavily on their forces getting there before things get out of hand, because they simply don't have the forces/equipment to throw at heavier/more developed conflicts.

 

Land Raiders might be sparse, but straits can't be all that dire if you are getting a lot of the more expensive stuff. Also, if you are getting so many Rhinos, it is hard to believe you aren't getting Whirlwinds, Predators, and Vindicators, all of which are based on the Rhino chassis. Obviously the Land Raider is the exception here, so that being missing doesn't really bother me. The others though...you would have those. Especially since they are all as fast as a Rhino and fulfill a valuable tactical role.

- They do have them. Just not in the numbers you'd expect. This forces them to focus on the "Flesh over Steel" aspect, and I like that as I've always viewed the Astartes as more Special Forces/SAS than Rangers/Royal Marines. Also...when you have chapters that have far exceeded their normal quota of certain weapons (Aurora for armor, Fire Lords for Whirlwinds, DA and successors for landspeeders) it's not inconeivable that someone gets the short end of their largess.

 

This sounds suspiciously familiar... Didn't Tigerius do the EXACT same thing for Calgar and his lads?

- No, no. Good Ol' Tigurious just tapped into the Hive Mind all by himself and is waging a one-man war on the 'Nids on behalf of the UMs now that he has assumed the title of "Most Powerful Psyker in the Imperium". In my instance it is the entire Librarium working together to study and counteract the Orks, which is exactly what the Librarium should be doing. The fact that they've been successful is the interesting part. Similar I suppose, but much less MISS. The similarity is entirely unintentional.

 

Again, you are stating that your Chapter is one of the seven Chapters listed in the Codex as hunting The Punishers. That aside, why bother with the hassle of tying yourself to another Chapter? What does this add besides making your Chapter look cool and awesome?

- This serves two purposes. First, it continues to stress the Chapters willingness to stretch itself to the breaking point. Second, it's a good way to use canon to tie them into Segmentum Tempestus. They gain nothing from it except to explain their common goal in the Punishers and point out that they have a bond beyond that of just being fellow astartes.

 

The IA has been trimmed down exceedingly well, but I still think this is unnecessary. Every Fortress-Monastery is unique and awesome, and therefore doesn't need a portion of space-limited IA dedicated to it. There are exceptions, but the general rule is that every Fortress-Monastery is badass and unique.

- I get that it isn't required, but the whole point of an IA is to point out what is unique about the chapter. I think the fact that you have to fly into a mountain to get there is unique enough to warrant its presence.

 

This still seems to be special for the sake of being special. A LOT of Chapters have fought Orks for a LONG time, and a A LOT of Chapters have fought in the Tyrannic wars. Why would your lads have increased odds of selection when the DW has an entire Galaxy to pick from, and would benefit highly from drawing in as many Chapters as possible to gain as much unique knowledge as possible

- Because they are better than everyone else. :) Seriously though, they've been around since the 9th Founding. The sheer length of their exposure to xenos warfare would make them a more preferable resource, and their relative success certainly would. Maybe they have a patron in the Ordo Xenos? Maybe the numbers are an attempt to get the equipment their short, similar to the Scythes of the Emperor? Other than an acknowledgement of their xenos fighting skills, they gain nothing from it save yet another[/] mission stripping men and material away from them.

 

I repeat my protest that you are volunteering however. You don't pick them. They pick you

- Adjusted. I think the new set-up adds a little more rust to their shiny armor.

 

I however, still disagree :) I don't think the Codex would help the Guard.

- From my recently acquired (yesterday) Insignium Astartes: pg. 8 "Roboute Guilliman's greatest work describes ad prescribes how the entire Imperial military should be organized and how it should fight. Within its hallowed pages are long treatises on all manner of tactics and strategies for virtually all of the soldiers, warriors, and war machines known to the Imperium. Of special interest is the volume devoted to the Space Marines." Emphasis mine. *Does the happy dance in realization that his fluff-fu is strong*

 

Again, I repeat that it doesn't make sense to list the Chaplains as having even the possibility of dual allegiance.

- And yet there are chapters that have taken up the Imperial Creed and believe in the divinity of the Emperor...

 

Again, this is no different from how every Chapter wages war.

- I disagree. The handicap from their unusual heavy equipment predicament makes this unusual. The tactic may be similar but the execution is much different.

 

I like the Sky Sentinels. I hate the UM. Don't make the Sky Sentinels the UM

- Thanks! Agreed! They aren't. They are a slightly warped attempt to be better than the Black Consuls, who after the whole Tyrannic Vet thing felt they were better than the UMs, who in turn think they are the best thing since sliced bread. So much narcisism...it's like a photo-copy, the original is one thing (UM Legion), the next iteration slightly more faded (UM chapter), the next even more (Black Consuls), and so on (Sky Sentinels). Until eventually you're not even sure what you're looking at...it should be the original, but it's not...something is off.

 

@NightrawenII:

Actually, this world doesn't work at all, but I'm often accused of nitpicking and told that my opinion doesn't matter (even though I'm right ;) ), so I was silent about it

.

- Your nitpicking is well documented, lol. But also incredibly useful, and greatly appreciated. I initially hated you, then came to understand your wisdom. :lol: My only defense for Pranagar is Hoth, lol. If wampa and tauntauns can live there...certainly millenia of evolution would allow avian creatures to adapt to Pranagar?

 

@ Heru Talon and Aegnor:

- I knew there was a reason I liked you guys, lol.

[Shinzaren]

- And yet there are chapters that have taken up the Imperial Creed and believe in the divinity of the Emperor...

I can't think of any off the top of my head. Even if there are Chapters that do, the vast majority don't see him as a God, and their Chaplains are not associated with the Ecclesiarchy at all.

[Marshal Renatus]

@ Shinzaren: Alright :rolleyes: you win! And :o you again because it actually reads better and enhances their arrogant undertone, lol. When the hammer doesn't work, just bring out the sledge! Thanks!

[NightrawenII]

This still rankles me. It immediately tells the reader that your Chapter is better than the other Astartes. Since every Astartes is designed for this exact mission [rapid response and assault], saying you have better, faster ships just doesn't make sense.

- Not better, just different. The concept I have for these guys is something similar to an airborne/air assault/light infantry unit in today's military forces. They can get there very quickly and are expertly trained, but they aren't designed for protracted combat. Most chapter's could drop more troops and heavier equipment, but the Sky Sentinels cannot. So their particular style of warfare, while very similar to a standard chapter, focuses even more heavily on their forces getting there before things get out of hand, because they simply don't have the forces/equipment to throw at heavier/more developed conflicts.

I kinda agree with him. You are basing your tactic on wargear, rather than wargear on the tactic. They are like that, because of the original shipment of equipment. Not because this is their favoured tactic developed and refined over millenia.

 

- They do have them. Just not in the numbers you'd expect. This forces them to focus on the "Flesh over Steel" aspect, and I like that as I've always viewed the Astartes as more Special Forces/SAS than Rangers/Royal Marines. Also...when you have chapters that have far exceeded their normal quota of certain weapons (Aurora for armor, Fire Lords for Whirlwinds, DA and successors for landspeeders) it's not inconeivable that someone gets the short end of their largess.

Yes and No.

For example the Fire Angels are renowned for their preferred tactic of armoured spearhead. But they adopted this tactic because their homeworld is capable of production of Armour in vast quantities.

 

@NightrawenII:

Actually, this world doesn't work at all, but I'm often accused of nitpicking and told that my opinion doesn't matter (even though I'm right :) ), so I was silent about it

.

- Your nitpicking is well documented, lol. But also incredibly useful, and greatly appreciated. I initially hated you, then came to understand your wisdom. :lol: My only defense for Pranagar is Hoth, lol. If wampa and tauntauns can live there...certainly millenia of evolution would allow avian creatures to adapt to Pranagar?

Well, if you want to argument... :devil:

No plants -> no photosynthesis -> no oxygen -> no breathable atmosphere.

 

Of course this is very simplified argument, there are other sources of oxygen, but the major factors in photosynthesis are water (frozen on ice world), concentration of CO2, temperature (our planet minimum is -15 degree of Celsius) and light (spectrum and intensity, your planet has only 6 hours per day of light).

 

I think the question, whether the avians can adapt to the cold (The penguins live and breed on poles.) is the least of your problems. ;)

 

- And yet there are chapters that have taken up the Imperial Creed and believe in the divinity of the Emperor...

I can't think of any off the top of my head. Even if there are Chapters that do, the vast majority don't see him as a God, and their Chaplains are not associated with the Ecclesiarchy at all.

The aforementioned Fire Angels embrace the Imperial Creed, but they are 25th Founding.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

- And yet there are chapters that have taken up the Imperial Creed and believe in the divinity of the Emperor...

I can't think of any off the top of my head. Even if there are Chapters that do, the vast majority don't see him as a God, and their Chaplains are not associated with the Ecclesiarchy at all.

 

All Chaplains have an association with the Eccleisiarchy.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

All Chaplains have an association with the Eccleisiarchy.

 

Symbolic ties are just that, symbolic.

[Marshal Renatus]

@CJJ: I would agree with you based solely on logic. I know they don't buy into the Imperial Creed, but just as Techmarines are the Chapters "integrators" for interaction with the AdMech...you'd think the same would be there for the Ecclesiarchy. Some piece of research or artifact could sit on a Cardinal World, who better to send for it? Brother Thunderbunny, who'd as soon shoot them as hear them talk, or a Chaplain who at least understands some of the lingo, who's who to talk to, and can play the diplomacy card a little more deftly?

 

It's not important for purposes of the IA, and I'm happy with the rewrite, but it would be cool to get a "canon" answer if one exists.

 

@NightawenII: I had a lot more I could have used on the planet, but for the sake of brevity cut it down or eliminated it. Pranagar's original settlers had some arcance technology (long crippled/rundown) that created an initial atmosphere. The tundra and mountain valleys were sown with a bio-engineered algae that could survive the harsh cold an still produce oxygen, basically feeding on the heavy mineral content in the earth (nitrogen, sulfer, etc.) and releasing O2 as a byproduct. The heavy salinity of the planetary oceans prevented their complete freezing, and the planets O2 levels are assisted by the evaporation but still require the algae. The 6 hours of sunlight they receive are intense, like Bay of Fundy intense...huge shifts in tide lines because of the rapid meltoff and reoccuring freeze, also creates more O2. This is also why the cities are walled, to prevent flooding. The original settlers were hinted at being scientists of some form...how a lot of this was possible, think Wrath of Khan, lol. It also explains the ease with which the planet was subsumed into the Imperium. The ordered/slightly OCD part of the planet's culture almost visibly exhaling when someone brought them a new paradigm to live in that made sense and kept order. That's how they've maintained the "Guillimanic efficiency." Not through martial instruction, though this happens, but through cold, scientific logic and analysis. Millenia of inductions from the planet have brought these traits out of the Chapter in more and more apparent iterations. Thus the aloof, arrogant, and "god-complex" feel I'm trying to give them.

 

LOL. Like I said...bit much for the IA, but I hope it helps.

 

- On the fleet...I don't see it going anywhere. I'm being honest. It's one of the things that makes them "super" and unusual in my eyes. The wargear doesn't make the tactics, as the Chapter Master preferred to fight like this, so he wasn't about to gripe about an expansive fleet. He might not like the lack of heavy armor, but maybe he thought it was a surmountable hurdle...I mean, the Chapter's still kicking, so it couldn't have been a total facepalm. I think there should be things in each Chapter that bring out some jealousy from other chapters. For the IF it's the Phalanx. For the UM it's the ENITRE EFFING EMPIRE OF ULTRAMAR *rant*. For the Doom Legion it's their massive space fortress. Same for the Mortifactors. Hawk Lords are the uber-Thunderhawk pilots. And on and on.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

All Chaplains have an association with the Eccleisiarchy.

 

Symbolic ties are just that, symbolic.

 

Ah, now must I educate you, young Padawan learner.

 

@CJJ: I would agree with you based solely on logic. I know they don't buy into the Imperial Creed, but just as Techmarines are the Chapters "integrators" for interaction with the AdMech...you'd think the same would be there for the Ecclesiarchy. Some piece of research or artifact could sit on a Cardinal World, who better to send for it? Brother Thunderbunny, who'd as soon shoot them as hear them talk, or a Chaplain who at least understands some of the lingo, who's who to talk to, and can play the diplomacy card a little more deftly?

 

 

The Rosarius is a symbol of the covenant between the Adeptus Astartes and the Eccleisiarchy. This agreement states that the beliefs of the Astartes or the worlds they lay claim to are not the province of the Eccleisarchy until such time as those beliefs can be deemed heretical.

 

You might say it's symbolic, but inherent within that agreement is the power for the Eccleisiarchy to enforce the Imperial Creed if the homeworld of an Astartes has heretical beliefs.

[NightrawenII]

*cough*

 

The Cults of the Space Marines were formed long before the Ecclesiarchy became a powerful force within the Imperium, and they hold to their beliefs stubbornly, disdaining the fanatical ravings of the Ministorum. Their ideology features fundamental theological differences from the teachings of the Ecclesiarchy. The main point of contention between the Space Marines and the Ecclesiarchy occurs in how they perceive the Emperor. To the Ecclesiarchy, the Emperor is a god, the most divine being, the Saviour of Mankind and its eternal guardian. The Space Marines revere the Emperor as a brilliant, inspired man, but a man nonetheless. This forms a major schism between the two organisations.

~

An uneasy truce has developed between the Adeptus Astartes and the Ministorum, though occasional disputes shatter this wary peace.

~

The Chaplains of the Space Marine Chapters are gifted with their sacred Rosarius by the Ecclesiarchy in recognition of the link between the two organisations, though this is little more than a symbolic gesture of peace between them.

~

The mutual distrust between the Iron Hands and the Ministorum has erupted into bloodshed on several occasions and, not surprisingly, the Ecclesiarchy refuses to gift the Chapter with the sacred Rosarius.

~

They (Wolf Priests) have little more than contempt for the Ecclesiarchy, although the Wolf Priests will often wear the sacred Rosarius. However, their Rosarius is altered to represent a wolf totem rather than an Ecclesiastic icon.

- Index Astartes, FOR THE EMPEROR - Space Marine Chaplains

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

The Rosarius is a symbol of the covenant between the Adeptus Astartes and the Eccleisiarchy. This agreement states that the beliefs of the Astartes or the worlds they lay claim to are not the province of the Eccleisarchy until such time as those beliefs can be deemed heretical.

 

I've never heard of this before. In many cases the belief systems of Astartes recruitment populations are indeed heretical in the Ecclesiarchy's eyes (as are most Space Marine chapters), but they can't do anything about it because Space Marine home worlds are protected from them and any other Imperial organization bar the Inquisition.

 

The Chaplains of the Space Marine Chapters are gifted with their sacred Rosarius by the Ecclesiarchy in recognition of the link between the two organisations, though this is little more than a symbolic gesture of peace between them.

 

Game. Set. Match.

[Marshal Renatus]

I do love canon/fluff discussions. You learn more in a days worth of posts than you could in a week of reading.

 

For the IA: I've changed the wording, so it no longer is a huge sticking point. I do feel somewhat vindicated though in the acknowledgement that a relationship exists between the two groups, even if on the periphery.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

The Chaplains of the Space Marine Chapters are gifted with their sacred Rosarius by the Ecclesiarchy in recognition of the link between the two organisations, though this is little more than a symbolic gesture of peace between them.

 

Game. Set. Match.

 

The gesture is symbolic, not their agreement.. Hardly a win, ol' son.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

The gesture is symbolic, not their agreement.. Hardly a win, ol' son.

 

I'll take what I can get at this stage. :)

 

However, their agreement really is one of mutual non-interference rather than any formal pact or whatnot, or so I seem to have concluded myself. More 'you don't bother me and I won't bother you' sort of deal, rather than a true pact to work together or an alliance of any sort.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

The gesture is symbolic, not their agreement.. Hardly a win, ol' son.

 

I'll take what I can get at this stage. :)

 

Take it, get out of this thread and get back to the Blazing Sons ;)