Ferrus Manus?

[eaglefists13]

Right after thinking through a few things I came to the conclusion that the Emperor made a huge error in putting Ferrus in charge of tackling Horus at Istvaan III.

If Horus was the greatest(methinks Roboute and the Lion run him close and Sanguinius and Dorn run them close), and we do know that the "better" legions were occupied elsewhere then why Ferrus.

 

Okay the Emperor didn't know that the other legions had become ensnared by Horus at this time but of all the Primarchs there he would of been the hot headed rush headlong in one which should of been obvious to the Emperor.

 

Now Of the 7 Primarchs sent to sanction was he the most senior Primarch in the Emperor's eyes (does this mean he was found before the other 6???) or that he was nearest.

 

Now we know that he rushed headlong making as fast as he could even leaving the rest of the legion behind so that would of meant he joined rather than waited for Vulkan and Corax.

Why not put Corax in charge as he is similar to Guilliman in that strategy matters.

Are the Iron Hands a bigger force? No

 

So we have

Raven Guard with Corax

Salamanders with Vulkan

Iron Hands with Ferrus

 

joining are

Night Lords with Konrad Kurze

Word Bearers with Lorgar

Alpha Legion with Aplharius/Omegon

Iron Warriors with Perturabo

 

Lorgar has the bigger force, Perturabo is most qualified to assault or direct the assault as it has forte

Alpharius is still relatively new and Kurze is well the Night Haunter (Batman) so would never be in charge of anything

 

We know Perturabo was found early on in the crusade and would excel at this! so why not him?

 

The Emperor played right into Horus' hands by doing what Horus himself may have done, putting Ferrus in charge whose rampant damaged pride wouldnt allow him the caution of seeing what was going on first, the dolt didnt even wait for the rest of him own legion and assaulted with probably a tenth of his legion and 2 legions not noted for being large.

 

Now this is speculation at the moment but coupled with an important fact something sticks out.

The Lion saw straight through the whole Heresy straight away and guessed his, Guillimans and Sanguinius' assignment were to remove their threats. Now look at the other side of the coin. Why leave the Iron Hands, Salamanders and raven Guard in a position where they are relatively near. The answer should of been obvious in that a plan of further treachery lay ahead and that the unswervable legions were well out of the way, this should of also told Dorn who was still Loyal as he should of seen what the Lion saw in an instant or at least the Emperor should of.

I dont think the Lion would of ever chose Horus' side??

Or would he.......... read below post

 

The point being that the Emperor who found horus early on who taught him everything he knows should of realised that there was a bigger plan and they were going into a trap without even having to use his psychic powers.

Bit of a moron there

[Aegnor]

Dorn put together the attack on Istvaan V, not the Emperor.

 

Was Manus even formally in charge, or did he persuade the others to his point of view? It's been a while since I read Fulgrim, but wasn't the original plan for them to wait for the rest of the "loyalists"?

 

Vulkan tended to foresee things and didn't believe in avoiding severe testing, so he may well have gone along with Manus for those reasons.

[XKhalilX]

sanguinius if i remember was considered right behind horus as the best, and i believe horus even mentions at some point Sanguinius was more qualified them him to be warmaster. your putting Sanguinius at like #4 or #5, when he was at the very least #2 even according to Horus himself.

 

and Ferrus Manus was definitely not a "dolt" as you put it. The man was cold and calculating. he had his reasons. Perhaps Vulkan's humanity and Ferrus' strong will, the traitors felt they were the ones to not swerve from the Emperor, and thus they figured take those we think will not turn, and take them out first/ASAP.

[Aegnor]

Nah, they had a red-hot crack at the Iron Hands, and were disappointed when Manus wouldn't turn.

 

And Horus was talking about Sanguinas as an inspirational leader who understood the Emperor's dreams, not as a general. Realistically, all the Primarchs would have been fantastic generals, but within that select group, Jonson, Guilliman and Horus were probably considered the most complete and "best" (although the supremacy of others in particular fields, eg Dorn in defense, Perturabo in siege warfare, etc. was generally recognized).

[XKhalilX]

well theres no question horus was #1

 

id say the rank goes Horus, Sanguinius, and Dorn and Guilliman tied for third followed by the Lion

[Brother Captain Gladius]

What about Alpharius? I am sure I have read it somewhere that he helped Horus plan the dropsite assult from the side of the heretics. If Horus trusts him to help with a major cog in his plan, he is obviously very tactially astute! I would therefore put him in the top five.

[Aegnor]

There are no bad generals amongst the Primarchs. Whatever other roles the Emperor had in mind for them, Lorgar possibly excluded, they were first and foremost to be generals without peer, who would conquer the galaxy for the Emperor. The "worst" general amongst them would be superior by any other measure.

[eaglefists13]

Sanguinius in Horus' opinion embodies his fathers nobility, at no point in any fluff or lore does it state that the Blood Angels victory tally remotely resembles that of the Fists, Ultras and Dark Angels. So Fifth is as high as he would be when coupled with his legion, Individually yes he would be better but Horus looked up to only Dorn and Sanguinius and possibly Guilliman.

It States that he wanted the approval like a younger brother would of his elder siblings.

 

As age is very relative (with warp travel and stuff) and the only two great Primarchs upon discovery are Rogal Dorn and Roboute Guilliman then we can assume that these brothers are the ones he would seek approval of most.

 

Whilst on the subject, Horus' victory tally is because he is the first Son found, he regularly uses other legions to achieve his victory (Death Guard, Raven Guard and World Eaters are mentioned as shock troops sent in by Horus first then his "glory" legion sent in to get the prize). He did fight alongside the Emperor aswell so when it mentions he has the greatest tally it does need reigning in a little if not a lot.

 

So it would lead us to the conclusion that of the other legions mentioned as having great tallies that possibly with other things taken into account that the victories by Horus would of been eclipsed.

 

We also know that Guilliman and Corax (both of sound reasoning mind were somewhat averse to the tactics employed by Horus and Corax even removed his legion from Horus' command and Guilliman was left behind to pick up the pieces on another occasion. We also have a mention of Perturabo helping and not getting any credit in one campaign.

 

That the Ultras were massive does help in victories, and we assume the Fists are reasonably sized so that helps too. Plus the Dark Angels were the first Legion so that would help them, lthis eads us to believe that Horus was the Warmaster by virtue of being found first and having the tutoring of the Emperor for 20 years not by victory tally or how the victory was won and "solidified" as that would of meant the Ultras own Roboute Guilliman as they/he created a perfect society after leaving, unless that was the plan all along by Chaos, he with the greatest pride and vanity has a greater chink in his armour.

 

Anyway kind of off post topic by thats my musings.