BFG Space Marine Fleet List

[Brother Derringer]

So My brother and I started playing BFG he went Imperials I went Space Marines. Being Space Marines I don't have very many options but this is what i actually have:

 

1 Battle Barge

3 Strike Cruisers

3 Gladius Class Frigates

3 Nova Class Frigates

4 Hunter Class Destroyers

 

Is this a good starting fleet? What are some of the core tactics SM fleets use?

 

(our main opponents would be more Imps, a guy with Chaos, and a guy with Eldar)

[Demoulius]

as far as i understand it (and found out to my dismay) you either run SC's with escorts or a BB with escorts....theres very little middle ground because...well.....SM SC's are light cruisers, and can therefor not dish out as much firepower as youd might like.

 

you pretty much have to use every single advantage you have to make them work. speed, thunderhawks, bombardment cannons and boarding for them to work. wheres the IN can just blow you away with masses of lance batteries.

 

our escorts are also the only available lance weapon in our fleet. sure bobardment cannons hit at a 4+ but the amount of shots is calculated with the gunnery table, meaning you generaly dont have that many shots so each one counts. that said WHEN they hit they cause massive carnage :ermm: love the look on my opponents face when i cause critical damage on a 4+ :sweat:

 

overall a fleet that you have to learn how to use. opposed to the IN fleet which is abit more forgiving.

[Brother Smitty]

as far as i understand it (and found out to my dismay) you either run SC's with escorts or a BB with escorts....theres very little middle ground because...well.....SM SC's are light cruisers, and can therefor not dish out as much firepower as youd might like.

 

While what Demoulius said is true you can account for these weaknesses and still prevail. First thing I would do is squadron up those 3 strike crusiers. That way they can combine their bomb cannons to make their punch even more effective. Your escorts should also be squadrons up together. Essentially gladius and nova's are the SM equivelent to the IMP swords and firestorms so you should get a failry good sqdrn out of 3 of each (18 WB + 3 lances). Make sure they are not in front of your SC's or BB as those 2 should be the ones soaking up the firepower, not the escorts.

 

With marines, your tactics are basically run up the gut kicking ships in the junk as you go. SM's are even more 1 dimensional than Imperials when it comes to this. BB and SC's in close to each other with the escorts trailing 25cm or so behind. When you want to kill something, shoot EVERYTHING at it until it dies (unless they brace, then you've bought yourself a turn because that ship will be at 1/2 everything next turn). Board every ship that comes within reach and use your T-hawks for CAP and an occasional Assault on a dangerous ship you want silenced for a while. Assault boats will not cripple or destroy a capital ship but you can't underscore a side critical when your opponent is lining up for a broadside.

 

I won't lie, Eldar will give you a real go of it. Your bomb cannons are the only thing saving your arse from a good whippin. Eldar are too quick for you to line up and ram/board so ranged attacks are your only hope. T-hawks and eldar fighters both have the 4+ save thingey so your fighter screen will be less effective and most likely outnumbered too. Stay tight together and use your escorts to cover your thrusters or it's game over. I find Eldar to be the most difficult race to deal with.

 

A chaos fleet will be even with you for speed and firepower, be better in ordinance but weaker in armour. Most common tactic for a chaos fleet is encirclement and death by ordinance. T-hawks should be used for CAP only, you won't be able ot spare them for an assault so don't. Your entire strategy should be on protecting your BB as the WB's and bomb cannons will just kill off the 5+ armour saves of the chaos ships. Count on your escorts making 1 really decent run (on lock on of course) as assault boats and bombers will ruin there day in a hurry.

 

IMP's will use the same tactics are you will use so expect a head on clash. Torps and a 6+ sv will give them the bonus, just make sure your T-hawks are out in front to absorb those torp salvoes. An Imp player will usually get 2 torp runs in a game, 1 at long distance to try to break up the fleet and one at around 20-30cm for the kill. Anything after that is a chance shot as you're manoevering. After that it's on to broadsided, something an IMP player excels at. T-hawks on assault runs can attempt to critical the broadsides, if it works you're set, if not use your better speed on the SC's and escorts to get behind them and use your BB as the anvil to wedge them in.

 

Hope this helps,

[Vaaish]

There are some bonuses to marines on the way fairly soon. In the mean time most successful fleets center on taking as many battlebarges or strike cruisers as possible supported by escorts, usually the hunter and gladius. You can mix but it usually leaves you weaker than going all of one type or the other. The battlebarge route gives you two pretty hard ships and the longest range in the marine list to help keep eldar on their toes and ward of the chaos lances while the SC route tries to take so many cruisers that the casualties as you close won't affect the hitting power. Both are supported by escorts which are used for harassment and finishing damaged ships.

 

While marines have it rough in a straight up fight no matter who you are going up against, they have it worst against chaos. This is due to Strike Cruisers having a single shield and the typical chaos fleet bringing large numbers of lances to the table at 60cm which negates the 6+ armor the SC have. That makes it well within the grasp of a chaos fleet to target your ships with enough firepower to cripple them in a single round of shooting or destroy them outright.

 

Eldar are also tough because they can move into range, fire, and move back out of the range of the 30cm weapons most of your fleet packs before you can return fire. The heavier BB and it's longer range guns helps out considerably here as does escorts like the Gladius since the effectiveness of holofields are greatly reduced against battery weapons. With their movement speed, it will be unlikely you will fire any 30cm weapons on your BB or SC against a decent eldar player. They do typically have paper armor so your regular batteries will be smacking them on a 4+ with what shots you do get.

 

Against Tau, find a corner to curl up and cry as the insane waves of ordnance wash over you. The good news is that if you can weather the alpha strike and board anything you are almost guaranteed of winning by a good margin :) Just watch the teeth in their forward arcs and try to hit from the side where the firepower is minimal.

 

IN is a slightly more even match up since you both rely on 30cm weapons for the most part and you have the advantage of 6+ armor all around that reduces the effectiveness of IN battery fire. This helps since most IN fleets don't usually have a huge quantity of lances or have them in dedicated ships like the Gothic which you can target early in the engagement. NC will be hit or miss on the way in, but if you lose quickly they shouldn't do too much to you before you can force the ships with NC to brace. Here, if you can get past the initial bombardment you should have free reign with your superior maneuverability and the iN 5+ side and rear armor.

[Brother Derringer]

Lots of great advice here it's really helped me. I was also wondering if I could post my bro's IN list on here even though they're not power armoured?

[Vaaish]

I'm not entirely sure, but they have allowed pics on IN ships and they can be combined into marine fleets.

[Brother Derringer]

That's kinda what will be happening with my bro and I against our friends during team battles so I'll post it in here won't start a new thread.

 

Retribution BSx1

Dictator CSx2

Lunar CSx2

Cobra FRx6

Firestorm FRx3

 

Just wondering if that fleet is any good.

 

Edit: Ld 8 Admiral as well

[Brother Derringer]

EDIT: Double post (stupid iPod :P)

[Vaaish]

it's a fairly standard retribution build though you will more often see swords instead of Firestorms and a dominator/gothic combo instead of the two lunars. Two lunars work quite fine, though they need to be in a squadron to perform optimally which gives a slight edge to the dom/gothic which can operate at full efficiency as individuals.

[Brother Smitty]

That's kinda what will be happening with my bro and I against our friends during team battles so I'll post it in here won't start a new thread.

 

Retribution BSx1

Dictator CSx2

Lunar CSx2

Cobra FRx6

Firestorm FRx3

 

Just wondering if that fleet is any good.

 

Edit: Ld 8 Admiral as well

 

I never understood the facination with a Retribution BB. An Emperor is (in my opinion) a way better option for the points. It can level more WB's against the target (only from 1 side though) and shoot off an insane amount of ordinance. A Ret is good for mowing through an opponents lines I guess while an Emp will cross the T at 60cm in support so 2 different roles.

 

I've never liked Dictators in my fleet but it's personal preference. IMO crusiers are for firepower only in an IMP fleet while the BB supports with AC. With onyl 6 WB's you either SQDN them up with another crusier (and therefore bring them into close range with other linebreakers) or sit them back as AC support and waste the WB's. Too much of an 'all around' feel for me. Lunars are the best all rounder but work best supporting a specialist crusier like the Dominator (for WB's) or Gothic (lances). A lunar and Dominator = 18 WB's and 2 lances and a Lunar and Gothic = 6 WB's and 6 lances. Both are potent at what they do and will kill anything up to a BB in one round (with lock on of course). Drop the cobras, sure they've got torps but they also have paper for armour and will wither as soon as anyone looks at them funny. I tend to look at escorts as a mobile battleship, 4 swords and 2 firestorms give you20 WB's + 2 lances. They lose to attrition quick but for the points as long as you get 1 good attack run on something it will die.

 

In short, the RET will give you BB a good go of it but your 6+ armour will fend off his WB's pretty good so you need to worry about his torps and 60cm lances. Other than that I don't think his list will be able to damage you quick enough to reduce your firepower (especially Bomb cannons). Your T-hawks should be able to reduce his 8 squadrons of AC down to a manageable level and with your turrets and 6+ Armour bombers will nto be much of a factor. Keep your fleet compact and you should be able to roll over his fleet.

[Demoulius]

bombers can be a real pain if they target your escorts. they will completly annihilate them in even a single encounter and there generally isent much that you can do about it. carriers are IMHO priority #1, alongside with any lance boats he may have. i feel the space marine doesent have that much to fear from torpedoes. hitting on 5+ as a best case scenario isent really all that good. this is offset though by the amount of them that some fleets can throw your way...

 

i guess the reason why space marines are so dependant on our escorts is because the SC is a light cruiser, and so the bulk of the fighting has to come from elsewhere. our cruiser is also our carrier and our "assault boat" in that we have to basicly board them with it...

 

fact that theyre in expensive, fast and easy to move around also makes them prefered units in my book :)

 

that said SC's can wreck some havoc among your opponent if squadroned. the boardbardment cannons and thunderhawks are nothing to sneeze at and so long as you keep reloading them you can basicly take out escorts within 20 cm's or keep crippling a ship long enough until it basicly cant do anything anymore. (seriously, nothing is so much as fun as taking off every weapon a ship has, making it unable to turn and setting it on fire every turn :lol: )

 

on the fleet you posted, how many points is that? 1500?

 

the list you posted in your orignal post seems pretty decent for that points total. (ddont got the list with me here but if i can guess points accuratly that would be near 1500 pts as well? :rolleyes: )

 

squadron the SC's. use them alongside eachother (or flank, take your pick) but screen them with the escorts! the BB is slow and ponderous so can be quite easily out manouvered. the SC's while not having this trouble cant pick a fight with other cruiser squadrons and win on firepower alone. use their thunderhawks and other tricks to make them work. and like i said, screen them with escorts :)

 

and to explain why SC's in my mind cant go toe to toe with other cruiser here a small example:

SC, 145 pts.

dauntless class light cruiser 110 points.

 

the dauntless has 3 lances in its front arc, and is can move jsut as fast as the SC (IIRC) while the SC has more chances if he can keep it abeam or board it (using its cannons alongside its bombardment cannon) the speed of dauntless will most likely make that unlikely to happen (for very long anyway) the 90 degree turns mean the dauntless can always fire its lances at the SC and with only 1 shield it wont take long for it be destroyed by a much cheaper cruiser....

 

dont get me started on lunars or such either (though granted theyre abit more expensive...theyre also more durable and have more weapons :ph34r: )

 

so yea space marines have to use tactics and synergy with their entire fleet to work, whilst the IN can just fly some cruisers about who blow you to bits :cuss thats how i feel about it anyway...

[Vaaish]

I never understood the facination with a Retribution BB. An Emperor is (in my opinion) a way better option for the points. It can level more WB's against the target (only from 1 side though) and shoot off an insane amount of ordinance. A Ret is good for mowing through an opponents lines I guess while an Emp will cross the T at 60cm in support so 2 different roles.

 

The draw of the retribution is that it moves 20cm so it can still turn while under fire and it has a nice 6+ prow. Basically that lets the retribution join the cruiser line and spearhead an attack while forcing enemies to take leadership checks to fire at the rest of your fleet. The Emperor likes to stand off, but it really can't contribute much at 60cm with column shifts and facing taking its toll on the dice you roll and it's more likely to RO instead of LO. While the Ret is a bit undergunned, it's still a useful ship and can do some serious damage with torpedoes and close range batteries but it pretty much locks you into taking dictators.

 

With onyl 6 WB's you either SQDN them up with another crusier (and therefore bring them into close range with other linebreakers) or sit them back as AC support and waste the WB's. Too much of an 'all around' feel for me.

 

You are missing the point of the dictator then. It's designed to be part of the IN cruiser line and to provide a synergy ordnance attack with its torpedoes and AC. Since turrets can't fire at both AC and Torpedoes in a single turn, you can force an opponent choose by firing both your torpedoes and launching AC at him with the dictator letting one or the other attack without attrition from his turrets. This makes it a very handy ship that shouldn't be held back to support like the Mars or exorcist. Two dictators squadroned or in b2b launching torpedoes can be devastating.

 

Lunars are the best all rounder but work best supporting a specialist crusier like the Dominator (for WB's) or Gothic (lances). A lunar and Dominator = 18 WB's and 2 lances and a Lunar and Gothic = 6 WB's and 6 lances.

 

This is far from the most efficient method of using either ship. The best route is either a single Dominator paired, but not squadroned, with a gothic or two lunars squadroned. Either route nets you 12 batteries and 4 lances, but the dominator route lets you use both ships in support of each other without needing to squadron them and open yourself to loss of firepower on both ships if one needs to brace. In most cases this is the most efficient use of firepower since the 12 batteries should be enough to cut through the shields on a cruiser leaving it open to the more reliable lances to hit. There are some aspects or ranges that you might net a bit more from the batteries especially with LO, but in general it's better to go with two lunars or a dom/gothic than to mix the two. With the lunar/gothic combo, you aren't likely to strip shields before firing the lances which makes it a less efficient use of the lances to take down remaining shields.

 

If you really want to augment your battery strength on a lunar, an endeavour squadroned with it will give you 14 batteries, 8 torpedoes, and 2 lances for around 290 points.

 

in any event, it's highly unlikely that any of the cruiser combinations will take down a line cruiser even if on LO. Lunar/gothic will net you around 6 hits with LO which is just barely enough to cripple a fresh cruiser provided it doesn't brace. Dom/lunar will net around 8 hits with LO still not enough to kill a cruiser. Both the Dom/gothic and 2x lunar will end up with around 7.4 hits under LO. Now it's possible that you will roll better and net a few hits more but that's how many hits you can expect under the best possible facing.

[Brother Derringer]

Both are 1500 though I believe the SM is a little less while the IN is 1495. Probably going to experiment with a gothic/dominator pair as well as the 2 lunars and I'll drop the cobras for 3 swords and possibly fit a dauntless in there somewhere. While I tried keeping it balanced with having the ret and the 2 dictators, I figured having the ordnance able to come from two sources instead of just the emperor would be better. The fleet is supposed to be a smash and shoot so that's also where the ret and the lunars come in. I'm terrible with escort choices and I was eyeing the dauntless so any advice on that would be great.

[Vaaish]

For escort choice, IN typically considers the Cobra and Sword the best available and generally ignores the firestorm. Falchions make good escorts when swords aren't available and they do a good job of ordnance clearing.

 

There are benefits to the Emperor in that it's the cheapest way to get 8lb in the IN fleet and extremely resistant to enemy AC. Of course being a battleship help it absorb quite a bit of fire and still pump out the AC and the handy +1 to ld is nice too. Two dictators are a perfectly valid alternative though.

 

 

I love the dauntless and it's rare that I field a fleet without them. The only caveat is that you really need to field two for them to have much effect and you need to treat them like escorts. I tend to use them in place of escort squadrons myself. Depending on your list you may find the lance or torpedo dauntless better suited to your style but it's not usually worth squadroning both types together.

[Brother Derringer]

Clarification: On the datasheets for the Emperor and the Retribution the Emp is 365 and the Ret is 345 but on the fleet list its switched around. Which one is it? I had the impression that the Ret was less points as well.

[Vaaish]

Emperor is 365 ret is 345 in all lists. It was switched long ago but some of the pages didn't get updated. @345 pints the empy is just way too good

[Brother Derringer]

Yeah that might've swayed me if the Emp was 345.