Mysticaria Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 ok, working on my 2,000 point tournament list and I want to include a landspeeder storm and ccw squad. I want to be able to suicide them if I get the first turn, or outflank them if I don't or if there is dawn of war. So... here's the question. I was originally playing them with multimelta on storm, combi-melta and meltabombs... giving 3 chances to kill a transport, which would be the main target. However, I've noticed many people saying that they like powerfist as a better option. If I go that route, what do you equip the storm with? Also, with the powerfist, makes me want to put a combiweapon on seargeant... and probably a heavy flamer on the storm... but then that is getting pretty expensive. I want the storm team to be able to take out a vehicle on turn one with high degree of probability, but also want them to be able to be useful in case I don't get first turn. And... as in any tournament list points are at a premium. Is there a balance to be had? Options: 1- LSS w/MM, combimelta and meltabombs = 155 2- LSS w/HF, fist only = 160 3- LSS w/HF, fist and combimelta = 170 4- LSS w/MM, fist and combimelta = 175 Thoughts? Leaning towards option 1 or 2 at this point. -Myst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAwarrior43 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 I like the last option, if you get first turn, you will be auto hitting with a power fist on rear armor, not too shabby if you ask me and the combi-melta could be used to shoot first and then charge, if its a transport you could charge the contents that are now sitting in the crater you just created. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 I prefer the first one. With melta chances are you're going to be looking for heavy armour, which includes Land Raiders. I know I would prefer meltabombs to a power fist against them. Furthermore, meltabombs hitting stationary rear armour will go through, and they are cheaper than a power fist. And if you want to charge a unit, chances are the power fist will be dead quickly anyway due to the low unit count and the mediocre armour save. However, I like 2 as well due to it's ability to clear objectives end game, it fulfils a very different role to 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 i take these units for killing land raiders.. i used to use option 1 all the time, but have since added a powerfist, to increase thier roles.. either works well, but for the points your real aim should be the big expensive tanks, you dont need the powerfist. just a quick note, if you do take the fist, throw in the meltabombs anyway just incase you need to take down that land raider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAwarrior43 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 just a quick note, if you do take the fist, throw in the meltabombs anyway just incase you need to take down that land raider. I was just going to add that, if your putting forth the effort to make a unit like this, you might as well make sure they have all their bases covered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 just a quick note, if you do take the fist, throw in the meltabombs anyway just incase you need to take down that land raider. I was just going to add that, if your putting forth the effort to make a unit like this, you might as well make sure they have all their bases covered. The only problem with this is that it's then 180pts. Bit too much IMO, especially as meltabombs do a good job against all vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 IMO meltabombs are a must but the powerfist is entirely optional Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Drunk Guardian Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 IMO meltabombs are a must but the powerfist is entirely optional Do you run into a lot of issues with tanks moving / hitting with meltabombs in regards to the suicide scout squad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAwarrior43 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 IMO meltabombs are a must but the powerfist is entirely optional Do you run into a lot of issues with tanks moving / hitting with meltabombs in regards to the suicide scout squad? The suicide scouts are best if you get first turn, to strike before the opponent has a chance to move. If you don't get first turn they can be used to pick off isolated parts of the opponents army like long fangs and fire support vehicles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysticaria Posted January 31, 2011 Author Share Posted January 31, 2011 I like the triple melta threat, but that is the most purpose driven option, meaning I have reduced flexibility. I can be reasonably assured of being able to take out a vehicle and delay a unit or two at the start of the game, but the outflanking options are weaker. Meanwhile, if I go with fist and flamer, the alpha strike option is weakened a little but I end up with a squad that can do more from outflank. Only problem I'm having with that is that it is a little too expansive for what I'm looking at. I think at this point I'm leaning towards going with the cheapest purpose driven option... Multimelta, combimelta, meltabombs. If I get second turn or dawn of war I'll try to play it safe if possible and protect them and use as objective grabbers. Just won't be objective clearers. However, seems like I'm playing away from a couple LSS strengths and not sure I want to do that. Storm Strengths 1- launchers with -2 leadership... points to anti-infantry role 2- flamer doesn't use BS, Multimelta only hits 50%... points to anti-infantry role Both of those tend to lead me towards LSS being better in the role of anti-infantry. If I try to use it as a anti-vehicle delivery unit is that just playing to it's weaknesses? Should I just take the anti-infantry squad and add meltabombs? I'd probably be nervous doing that since meltabombs by themselves are not too good of a chance to break a landraider. Thoughts? -Myst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Well when you're going for anti-infantry, a power fist is still a good idea. While a combi-flamer would be best, if you have the points available meltabombs would also be good, allowing you to take out infantry on objectives last turn or take out tanks first turn. Ideally, you want to specialise and have a focus, but where grenades and the power fist is concerned, you can use them to take out vehicles as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysticaria Posted February 1, 2011 Author Share Posted February 1, 2011 Yeah, that's what I was thinking... what about: LSS w/heavy flamer, powerfist, combiflamer, and meltabombs... modeling problems aside, that comes in with anti-infantry focus, but fist and meltabombs for anti-vehicle. At 175 points that seems a little much though. -Myst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAwarrior43 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 What is your local meta game like? Is it pretty meched up like most places or is it balanced? I would say tailor the LSS to what you will most likely be facing. I enjoy the triple melta option due to the fact that I run into many large expensive tanks like the Leman Russ and hammer head where if the storm does its job it made its points back plus some and cripples my opponents plans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildfire Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I would say there are lots of much better ways to get anti-tank in your list than that. Fast attack has lots of excellent options, and you're wasting your limited slots by taking one of the weakest options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 The LSS has two good builds IMO. the best is anit-infantry or objective stealers LSS with heavy flamer, 5 scouts with fist and combi-flamer (maybe meltabombs just incase) the next one, which is what i use for anti-tank is the tri-melta storm, MM, combi and meltabombs sure the storms MM only hits 50% and the combi hits 66%, but if the LR hasnt move the meltabombs hit 100% of the time.. if you do the maths of S8 +2D6 the average roll of 7 is enough to get a pen hit, so between the three melta 'shots' you should stand a pretty good chance of destroying it.. anything less than a land raider and you then get grenades vs rear armour. edit: quick note that if your list contains Vulkan, both these builds become alot more powerful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 The LSS has two good builds IMO.the best is anit-infantry or objective stealers LSS with heavy flamer, 5 scouts with fist and combi-flamer (maybe meltabombs just incase) I think that for diversity in unit role, this one is indeed the best option, and one I would love to try out. And as for cost, you're paying about the same as a 10 man Tactical squad, but you've already got your ride, weapons, and better deployment options, plus speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 on the charge they can probably beat a bare bones tac squad in combat too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysticaria Posted February 1, 2011 Author Share Posted February 1, 2011 I think I agree with the analysis on those top two builds. Still, might be forced to run triple melta unless I can come up with a modelling solution for combi-flamer. At least it is the second best answer. Also, I know this isn't a tactics question, but can anyone point me to the right direction for a tutorial or modelling solution? What bits are easiest to convert? -Myst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 i never made a tutorial, but if you cut the barrel off a bolter and raise it a bit (glue it back on) then you can cut the front of a IG flamer and attach it beneath the bolter barrel.. works for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 i never made a tutorial, but if you cut the barrel off a bolter and raise it a bit (glue it back on) then you can cut the front of a IG flamer and attach it beneath the bolter barrel.. works for me That's what I did too, and it works really well. Another one I'm tempted to try out is to make it more like the one on the Firedrake book cover, which has the flamer bit turned upside down, the igniter repositioned and the bolter muzzle at the top, but that's a different topic entirely. The main problem I can see, which stops me from getting an LSS is I wouldn't know how to do the heavy flamer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysticaria Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 i never made a tutorial, but if you cut the barrel off a bolter and raise it a bit (glue it back on) then you can cut the front of a IG flamer and attach it beneath the bolter barrel.. works for me That's what I did too, and it works really well. Another one I'm tempted to try out is to make it more like the one on the Firedrake book cover, which has the flamer bit turned upside down, the igniter repositioned and the bolter muzzle at the top, but that's a different topic entirely. The main problem I can see, which stops me from getting an LSS is I wouldn't know how to do the heavy flamer. That's easy... I magnetized the multimelta and heavy flamer and placed it under the hull next to the frag launchers. It fits perfect and looks nice too. -Myst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 i never made a tutorial, but if you cut the barrel off a bolter and raise it a bit (glue it back on) then you can cut the front of a IG flamer and attach it beneath the bolter barrel.. works for me That's what I did too, and it works really well. Another one I'm tempted to try out is to make it more like the one on the Firedrake book cover, which has the flamer bit turned upside down, the igniter repositioned and the bolter muzzle at the top, but that's a different topic entirely. The main problem I can see, which stops me from getting an LSS is I wouldn't know how to do the heavy flamer. That's easy... I magnetized the multimelta and heavy flamer and placed it under the hull next to the frag launchers. It fits perfect and looks nice too. -Myst Sounds good, the main problem for me would be the magnetizing and needing to buy two kits, but I suppose I could add another Typhoon to my force to replace the slightly broken one with a helmetless Marine.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Acolyte Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 I have had alot of success with 5 scouts, power weapon and melta bombs in a flamer storm. If you have first turn they have bombs and 4 grenades for transport busting that auto hit(multi assaulting 2 seems to be not too difficult in my area) or the bombs for raiders. If you have second turn you again have the grenades/bombs for support vehicles on the back edge or the striking at I power weapon for hitting small support squads such as long fangs or lootas. The best part is the whole shebang is only 155 points iirc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I have had alot of success with 5 scouts, power weapon and melta bombs in a flamer storm. If you have first turn they have bombs and 4 grenades for transport busting that auto hit(multi assaulting 2 seems to be not too difficult in my area) or the bombs for raiders. If you have second turn you again have the grenades/bombs for support vehicles on the back edge or the striking at I power weapon for hitting small support squads such as long fangs or lootas. The best part is the whole shebang is only 155 points iirc I quite like the idea of this squad, as it can deal with everything except MCs, is cheaper than a power fist and meltabombs, and requires no conversion to be done to my Scout squad, which is loaded with shotguns while the Sergeant has that sword strapped to his back, can easily be a power weapon. May have to take a look at this when I can, good to hear some good things about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowstalker Grim Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 See to me that set-up is the epitomy of scouts, a small 5 man unit, dropping behind enemy lines to disrupt enemy actions. I always think scouts should operate in small squads (when was the last time you saw 10 snipers sitting together, or a team of 10 men trying to infiltrate together) small squads just seem more scout-like! But this build sounds really good, cheap, diverse, fast and pretty tough! Certainly a unit i'd consider taking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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