m3628800 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Alright we have four options for fielding special weapons in Rhinos, and I'm wondering what's the general agreement as to the most useful. All squads are bare besides two special weapons (for firing out of Rhino). Some of these advantages only come into effect once the unit is disembarked/the flimsy little Rhino they're riding is wrecked. Elites Option 5 Chosen with 2 Meltaguns in a Rhino = 145 points 5 Chosen with 2 Plasma Guns in a Rhino = 155 points Advantages, - Can add up to three more special weapons per squad for disembark spam - Outflank - Cheapest available Aspiring Champion for Greater Daemon bomb Troops Options 10 CSM's with 2 Meltaguns in a Rhino = 205 10 CSM's with 2 Plasma Guns in a Rhino = 205 Advantages, - Scoring Unit - Double the number of redundant bodies/bolter spam - Cheapish Aspiring Champion 5 Plague Marines with 2 Meltaguns in a Rhino = 170 5 Plague Marines with 2 Plasma Guns in a Rhino = 180 Advantages, - Scoring Unit - FNP (handy for those "Gets Hot" rolls) - Fearless - Blight Grenades Heavy Support Option 5 Havocs with 2 Meltaguns in a Rhino = 130 5 Havocs with 2 Plasma Guns in a Rhino = 140 - Cheapest Option - Can add up to two more special/heavy weapons per squad for disembark spam - Extra/other special/heavy weapons can be fired from Rhino - Cheapish Aspiring Champion (same price as CSM Aspiring Champion) Just looking to see discussion taking into these option, and the disadvantages as to each option (i.e. Havocs taking up those important Heavy Support options). Thinking about running an all Rhino mounted army, call it a Loyalist Chapter subverted to the will of Chaos Glory. Will post in Chaos Army list thread after seeing the discussion this generates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 10 CSM's with 2 Meltaguns in a Rhino = 205Add a champ with a fist + IoCG and that imho is the single most useful special weapons 'platform' we have available to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3628800 Posted January 31, 2011 Author Share Posted January 31, 2011 10 CSM's with 2 Meltaguns in a Rhino = 205Add a champ with a fist + IoCG and that imho is the single most useful special weapons 'platform' we have available to us. Just for comparison 10 CSM's with 2 Meltaguns, Icon of Chaos Glory, Champion with Power Fist in a Rhino = 255 vs 5 Chosen with 2 Meltaguns, Icon of Chaos Glory, Champion with Power Fist in a Rhino = 190 points Can drop the Champion upgrade, any model can carry the Power Fist in this squad 5 Plague Marines with 2 Meltaguns, Personal Icon, Champion with Power Fist in a Rhino = 215 points Can drop Personal Icon if not being used for summoning/deepstrike 5 Havocs with 2 Meltaguns, Icon of Chaos Glory, Champion with Power Fist in a Rhino = 180 points Not arguing the extra bodies aren't handy, and it counts as a scoring unit, but why would you run the 10 CSM Rhino? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 The basic CSM is the strongest (all-round model) available to us, point for point. Also, 5 Chosen will be vaporized easily (+ 1-2 of them will statistically die from a Penetrating result of 6 iirc) whereas 10 models have that more staying power, letting you use those Meltas for more than 1 round. And as you said, they are scoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeonic Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 They're awesome because you're taking troops anyways, and probably 2+ units of them. If all you want to do is spam rhinos and special weapons the plague marines may be better because they can take twin specials at 5 man and are less likely to die from their metal bawkses exploding around them. Looking at the two most likely suspects IMO: 10 CSM, 2 melta, chaos glory, rhino = 215 5x PM, 2 melta, rhino = 170 40 pts in either squad gets you a fistychamp, and for my money the CSM are the better buy, more bodies and more bolters and attacks. Rerolls instead of fearless is also good IMO, though either work. If I were taking a pure mech(as in only rhino mounted squads) list I'd take probably 4 units of these before I even looked at elite or heavy choices to supplement them with. This of course leaves you short on support units so you could include a couple/three 5 man havoc units with twin autocannons for transport busting, or the standard oblits or combi preds for the same. Someone posted quite awhile back a chaos razorback style list that used 5 man PM units in havocbacks as the core of an army. It was an interesting concept in that the rhinos could have immense potential firepower with a havoc launcher and 2x PG or meltas, and you could move 6" and fire both specials and the havocs. I thought the concept was not without merit but it's a little awkward to pull off, as it either leaves you short on boots on the ground or short on support. EDIT: I got ninja'd. Anyways it's an important distinction, plague marines are not T5, they're T4(5), or T5 only for non IDing/AP1-2 weapons. Granted that's the bulk of the weapons in a given list, but still, having done the maths I prefer CSM for the bulk of my boots on the ground as it doesn't take much in the way of special weapons fire to make up for the fact that they're going to be 3+ men(that is to say wounds) short of a full CSM unit. This is personal opinion based on the math I have done and my experiences on the TT, not to be taken as gospel by any stretch of imagination, YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3628800 Posted January 31, 2011 Author Share Posted January 31, 2011 Also, 5 Chosen will be vaporized easily (+ 1-2 of them will statistically die from a Penetrating result of 6 iirc) whereas 10 models have that more staying power, letting you use those Meltas for more than 1 round.And as you said, they are scoring. Scoring is a very important point, one of Chaos's distinct advantages is the number of good Troop choices we have. Just looking at the two troop options, 10 CSM's with 2 Meltaguns, Icon of Chaos Glory, Champion with Power Fist in a Rhino = 255 For one less point, and three more models you get, - Three more bodies to hide your Meltaguns/Powerfist - Icon for summoning/deep striking vs 7 Plague Marines with 2 Meltaguns, Champion with Power Fist in a Rhino = 256 points For one more point, and three less models you get - Three less Wounds from Rhino explodes! results - Fearless - Feel No Pain - Blight Grenades - Toughness 5 Leaning towards Plague Marines, but as I don't have either in my army (Khorne Horde!!!), I'm not sure of on table results... Going to order one or the other at the end of the day! (And another Rhino of Requirement!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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