Fixer Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Does the model's ornament blocked line of sight that I traced LoS through this ornament (like wings, tail, weapons and etc.)? (e.g., Can I traced LoS through the Daemon Prince's Wings or not?) P16 RB described only how traced LoS to model with ornament not through it. thanks in advance! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221167-los-through-the-models-with-massive-wings/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkenheim Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 As you rightly said, the rulebook only says that Los cannot be drawn to decorative elements, and parts of a model that are not the main body. There is no mention of ignoring it for drawing Los through to models behind, so RAW it will block Los. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221167-los-through-the-models-with-massive-wings/#findComment-2641181 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingsOfTheFalcon Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 I guess the common sense point here is that line of sight requires line of sight. If you can't see it, you can't shoot it. This does leave the door open to abuse through modelling but you can always refuse to play someone who is a deliberate ass. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221167-los-through-the-models-with-massive-wings/#findComment-2641213 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 And yet - if its not there for you to shoot at - its not there to block your LOS... cake or eat it situation really. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221167-los-through-the-models-with-massive-wings/#findComment-2641824 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I guess the common sense point here is that line of sight requires line of sight. If you can't see it, you can't shoot it. This does leave the door open to abuse through modelling but you can always refuse to play someone who is a deliberate ass. I agree with this, the wings are blocking your model's view, so how can they see what's behind them? If we say wings don't count, we then have to imagine they aren't there, and things start getting complicated to me. LoS was designed to be a simple way to see if you could see someone, rather than the old system. That's why I prefer it, so let's keep it simple shall we? :sweat: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221167-los-through-the-models-with-massive-wings/#findComment-2642031 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 And yet - if its not there for you to shoot at - its not there to block your LOS... cake or eat it situation really. When in doubt, give the advantage to your opponent. Seriously, you cant see it because of one models wings... then theres probly more of the squad obscured anyways. Its doubtful your opponent rotated his bloodthirster to the exact position to block your line of sight to a model on the other side... and itd be even harder to find a situation where he could do that while hiding the entirety of the thirsters body, arms, legs and head from you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221167-los-through-the-models-with-massive-wings/#findComment-2642046 Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkenheim Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 It's not a case of having your cake and eating it, it's a case of playing as the rules are presnyed. We aren't told to ignore elements, simply that they cannot be used to target a model. Likewise we are not told to playas if they do not exist. I agree potentially people could pose for an advantage but it is unlikely to impact massively. There gave been silly arguments put forth before about assaultmarines carrying 7" banners to hide everything across the table. There's nothing illegal with that RAW but I would be amazed if you ever cane across such a situation. Sadly like it or lump it, 'decorative elements' do block Los because RAW we are never given an alternative. Feel free to house rule it otherwise but that's just your choice, not the rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221167-los-through-the-models-with-massive-wings/#findComment-2642361 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requiemnex Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I actually really like banners and have them on all my dreadnaughts, sergeants, and a few of my tanks for space marines, in addition to this I play chaos and my daemon prince wings from the new plastic kit do block line of sight FREQUENTLY to the squads behind him. Can this be abused? Absolutely. Much like various other rules that are left slightly open ended but when it comes down to it.. Is shooting my guy in the banner pole really going to kill him? I dont abuse the rule often and would refuse to play someone who outright abused it. This has come up at my local store frequently. Lots of Space Marines and Eldar with lots of flash and extra bits. "creative" community. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221167-los-through-the-models-with-massive-wings/#findComment-2650024 Share on other sites More sharing options...
trefenwyd Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I run "venerable' rhinos, with a large banner sticking out the back, and I have hand-held forward-hatch mounted twin-linked heavy bolters on my razors. Do they give me a "competitive advantage". Sure. I can hide vehicles behind my rhinos and my razors have 3-4" extended range. I refuse to play that way though, and I explain that my banners are purely decorative, and will be removed for LOS/blocking purposes. Bottom line is that I made some conversions the way I wanted for looks purposes, not to gain an advantage, and that's how I play it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221167-los-through-the-models-with-massive-wings/#findComment-2650133 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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