Can someone explain Mephiston's potency to me?

[Hemal]

Its called Codex Creep, sonny. Back in my day, we had to walk uphill, in the snow, on a Death World, just to ask the neighbor if we could use a Special Character... Get off my lawn!

 

You forgot backwards whilst blind folded and with our feet tied together....

[Ishida]

Eh? What? Must have had a 'senior moment...' Now, where'd I put my copy of Adeptus Mechanicus?

[Ubermensch Commander]

Its called Codex Creep, sonny. Back in my day, we had to walk uphill, in the snow, on a Death World, just to ask the neighbor if we could use a Special Character... Get off my lawn!

 

Hhahaha! Well said venerable gamer!

 

Someone get this man a Dreadnought!

[Captain Juan Juarez]

That looks S5/T5 at least to me. I wouldn't compare his S6/T6 to that of a Carnifex. T, W may be measures of how tough a model is - if we consider then that Meph is essentially a Vampire in the traditional model, his S6/T6 are probably about right.

 

I think cross-race comparing is pointless anyway.

 

Toughness/Wounds - in my opinion - are a marker for the "level" of that character within its race.. So Meph is basically the toughest Space Marine there is, the toughest there was and the toughest there ever will be.. But only if hes Canadian.

[MagicMan]

That looks S5/T5 at least to me. I wouldn't compare his S6/T6 to that of a Carnifex. T, W may be measures of how tough a model is - if we consider then that Meph is essentially a Vampire in the traditional model, his S6/T6 are probably about right.

 

I think cross-race comparing is pointless anyway.

 

Toughness/Wounds - in my opinion - are a marker for the "level" of that character within its race.. So Meph is basically the toughest Space Marine there is, the toughest there was and the toughest there ever will be.. But only if hes Canadian.

 

 

 

My point was that the toughest sphess mehreen eva' shouldn't be able to take more wounds from a gun than a 12 foot tall, bio-engineered creature that your nightmares are afraid of. Nor should he be able to keep him to a draw in an arm wrestling match.

[Eddie Orlock]

My point was that the toughest sphess mehreen eva' shouldn't be able to take more wounds from a gun than a 12 foot tall, bio-engineered creature that your nightmares are afraid of. Nor should he be able to keep him to a draw in an arm wrestling match.

Well sure he can force a draw on to the tyrant, his stubby little arms are much shorter levers so he suffers less mechanical disadvantage when compared to the gangly hive tyrant.

[MagicMan]

Wrestling people with small arms does suck.

[Ranwulf]

That looks S5/T5 at least to me. I wouldn't compare his S6/T6 to that of a Carnifex. T, W may be measures of how tough a model is - if we consider then that Meph is essentially a Vampire in the traditional model, his S6/T6 are probably about right.

 

I think cross-race comparing is pointless anyway.

 

Toughness/Wounds - in my opinion - are a marker for the "level" of that character within its race.. So Meph is basically the toughest Space Marine there is, the toughest there was and the toughest there ever will be.. But only if hes Canadian.

 

 

 

My point was that the toughest sphess mehreen eva' shouldn't be able to take more wounds from a gun than a 12 foot tall, bio-engineered creature that your nightmares are afraid of. Nor should he be able to keep him to a draw in an arm wrestling match.

 

Why not? I mean, why can't an UBER super soldier(who in Fluff, by themselves they care of armies, well, depending on the author) clad in Artificer Armor take more wounds than a monstrous creature?

 

Space Marines are by themselves Super Soldiers, now, their heroes are even more "super".

 

Ran

[the jeske]

I mean, why can't an UBER super soldier(who in Fluff, by themselves they care of armies, well, depending on the author) clad in Artificer Armor take more wounds than a monstrous creature?

because in the fluff carnifex are able to stand up to hvy weapon barrage while a sm not matter how strong and in how good armor is still only a flesh and blood and a direct hit from a lascanon kills him .

[Tomlev40]

Hhahaha! Well said venerable gamer!

Someone get this man a Dreadnought!

Damn! I have to add that in my sig!

[Irbis]

because in the fluff carnifex are able to stand up to hvy weapon barrage while a sm not matter how strong and in how good armor is still only a flesh and blood and a direct hit from a lascanon kills him.

 

Actually, by logic, engineered armour and genes should always triumph over something that grows naturally and was only slightly modified by the hive. Elephant's hide might be far thicker than bulletproof vest, but which one you'd wear as defence from modern bullets?

 

Anyway, is T6 that big? Wasn't there already one T6 HQ in Codex:SM?

[Brother Arius]

I like how many people haven't noticed that the blood angels HQ and Chaplains can take three weapons (As long as you swap out 1+ of their basic weapons).

[Decoy]

Actually, by logic, engineered armour and genes should always triumph over something that grows naturally and was only slightly modified by the hive. Elephant's hide might be far thicker than bulletproof vest, but which one you'd wear as defence from modern bullets?

 

Given that you generally need pretty big bullets to drop an Elephant, and those same bullets can probably punch through standard bulletproof bets... I'd go with whichever one weighed the least. It's a tossup. And those same elephants didn't even evolve to be bulletproof, unlike the Tyranids!

[EmbattledSoul]

Actually, by logic, engineered armour and genes should always triumph over something that grows naturally and was only slightly modified by the hive. Elephant's hide might be far thicker than bulletproof vest, but which one you'd wear as defence from modern bullets?

 

Given that you generally need pretty big bullets to drop an Elephant, and those same bullets can probably punch through standard bulletproof bets... I'd go with whichever one weighed the least. It's a tossup. And those same elephants didn't even evolve to be bulletproof, unlike the Tyranids!

 

 

yeah lol, elephant hide compared to armored chitin... not even close. If ants could absorb more oxygen through their skin (or grow lungs) to support a larger size... we would be in an epic battle for survival like nobody's business.

[Vaktathi]

Overcoming the Black Rage apparently makes Space Marines into Hive Tyrant and Bloodthirster contemporaries. In other words, Matt Ward waved his magic fluff wand and gave BA's a Hive Tyrant because he thought it would be cool. That's about all there is to it.

[Ranwulf]

I mean, why can't an UBER super soldier(who in Fluff, by themselves they care of armies, well, depending on the author) clad in Artificer Armor take more wounds than a monstrous creature?

because in the fluff carnifex are able to stand up to hvy weapon barrage while a sm not matter how strong and in how good armor is still only a flesh and blood and a direct hit from a lascanon kills him .

 

Sure, but he is no regular Marine, he is not only a commander, he is an UBER commander. If Lysander can take a shot from a Lascannon and survive, why can't a Librarian that surpassed the Black Rage(which, to a regular Blood Angel is almost impossible, to a Librarian is WORST) becomes even more resilient? I mean, think about it, Carnifexes are regular(to nidz anyway) creatures, while Mephiston, Logan Grimnar and Lysander are the BEST of what Space Marines can offer. I see no reason to not believe that the BEST of the Super Soldiers Commanders(because there are Captains, Librarians, Chaplains, but these guys are more than that) survive things that a "regular"(not the same thing as cannonfodder, just that they are more akin to Predators than Super HQs) Nid does not.

 

Mephiston, Lysander, Logan, Calgar... all of them are Legendary, unique. Differentlly to Carnifexes, that can be seen in EVERY Nid Hive Force.

 

Ran

[the jeske]

he is not only a commander, he is an UBER commander

he is still not made of living metal , there is no info of him doing instant regeneration or walking around with half of body evaportated . If a primararch in their ultra powerful armor have to dodge las shots then a marine has to do it too , no matter how buffed up he is .

 

If Lysander can take a shot from a Lascannon and survive

he cant , but he is wearing an artificial terminator armor that lets you walk around in a plasma generator. mefo is walking around in a power armor.

 

Mephiston, Logan Grimnar and Lysander are the BEST of what Space Marines can offer.

and a head shot still kills them . but a fex with a blown up head still walks around if there is synaps near by . there is a completly different level of how much hurt can a nid creature take and a space marine . Sure by human standard they are tough and because of how the mechanics of 5th ed work they were given the eternal warrior rule [because otherwise they would be worth less killed by a fist in most hth situation even with SS] but in the fluff logan or mefiston cant take 4-5 direct battle cannon shots like fex or tyrants and still walk around . the armor may even survive that , but not the body inside .

 

 

Differentlly to Carnifexes, that can be seen in EVERY Nid Hive Force.

take a look at the swarm lord stats . he is unique . But in the end it doesnt matter if he is or is not unique [but of course it does suck that mefo can ID a fex or a tyrant that channels shadow of the warp , but a guy like lysander or logan cant and just because meq hoods/staffs work] it is about what a living model can or can not take . Nid creatures open LR with bare heads , to do that they need enough strengh but also be tough enough that their own bodies dont break up while they try to do it . No sm , no matter how special , ever riped open a LR with just his hands .

To make another example . A shot from a melta that hits and doesnt get stoped by a power field [in the fluff] cooks a meq and he is out of action . Look at huron he was just cliped by a combi melta shot and he is half mechanical now [arm , half face etc] .

I mean the share question of size doesnt make sense . mefo is stronger or as strong[depands how sword works if it buffs him or is just a powerful weapon] as stuff that is two or three times as big as he . With the stats he has does it mean he can borrow tunels underground or that he is stronger then warp made demon princes ?

[Spacefrisian]

Mephie still dies to Skulltaker (even more if skulltaker rides a juggernaut)

 

Just to note:

-Mephie strikes with force weapon in cc.

-Skulltaker has Blessing of the bloodgod against psychic powers and forceweapons, meaning a 2+ inv save. And he is eternal warrior

-Skulltaker rends on a 4+ and causes Instant death in the process...CHOP one less Mephie to worry about.

-(and he is almost a 100 points cheaper)

[Ranwulf]

he is not only a commander, he is an UBER commander

he is still not made of living metal , there is no info of him doing instant regeneration or walking around with half of body evaportated . If a primararch in their ultra powerful armor have to dodge las shots then a marine has to do it too , no matter how buffed up he is .

 

If Lysander can take a shot from a Lascannon and survive

he cant , but he is wearing an artificial terminator armor that lets you walk around in a plasma generator. mefo is walking around in a power armor.

 

Mephiston, Logan Grimnar and Lysander are the BEST of what Space Marines can offer.

and a head shot still kills them . but a fex with a blown up head still walks around if there is synaps near by . there is a completly different level of how much hurt can a nid creature take and a space marine . Sure by human standard they are tough and because of how the mechanics of 5th ed work they were given the eternal warrior rule [because otherwise they would be worth less killed by a fist in most hth situation even with SS] but in the fluff logan or mefiston cant take 4-5 direct battle cannon shots like fex or tyrants and still walk around . the armor may even survive that , but not the body inside .

 

 

Differentlly to Carnifexes, that can be seen in EVERY Nid Hive Force.

take a look at the swarm lord stats . he is unique . But in the end it doesnt matter if he is or is not unique [but of course it does suck that mefo can ID a fex or a tyrant that channels shadow of the warp , but a guy like lysander or logan cant and just because meq hoods/staffs work] it is about what a living model can or can not take . Nid creatures open LR with bare heads , to do that they need enough strengh but also be tough enough that their own bodies dont break up while they try to do it . No sm , no matter how special , ever riped open a LR with just his hands .

To make another example . A shot from a melta that hits and doesnt get stoped by a power field [in the fluff] cooks a meq and he is out of action . Look at huron he was just cliped by a combi melta shot and he is half mechanical now [arm , half face etc] .

I mean the share question of size doesnt make sense . mefo is stronger or as strong[depands how sword works if it buffs him or is just a powerful weapon] as stuff that is two or three times as big as he . With the stats he has does it mean he can borrow tunels underground or that he is stronger then warp made demon princes ?

 

The idea generally of Wounds is how much damage it can take before it cannot keep fighting. That does not means they are killed outright, since, they are porbablt going to dodge, or it will hit somewhere else. Eternal Warrior, in my opinion it has nothing to do with the Armor, but with the Willpower of the character itself. Sure, sometimes it is the armor, but mostly is theirs skill to be kept alive in a battlefield. Does a headshot kills them? Who knows? Seriously, if a Ork can survive a headshot(Ghazkull), then why in the hell wouldn't these heroic characters survive? Specially, when you think they are skilled enough to not get killed in combat, or are resilient enough that they shrug off shots. I mean, think about it, T6 for Mephiston. How does he achieves that? I mostly believe is a combination of willpower and thickness of the flesh alongside the armor. So, when a Lascannon burns his face, I see him with his face toasted, blackned, but not destroyed.

 

Huron, for instance, is T4, it actually complements my idea that a marine can survive "superweapons". And why wouldn't they be able to survive shots from those "super weapons"? I mean, Lysander is by itself a Determinator, he will not stop, and have more than enough combat experience to know how to protect himself, same goes for Calgar, Logan, all of them, tough as nails warriors that are extremely experienced in battle. So, now think about Mephiston, first of all, he is pretty much a "primarch" (or is at least almost there), that I am sure that them got shot by worse weapons during the Great Crusade, not only that he is an experienced Marine, so much he achieved a post of Chief Librarian, and is one of the Blood Angels Commanders.

 

About the regeneration: The Ossmodula grant a Space Marine a "tremendously strong fast-regeneration", that's pretty much standard. Now, think about a super-developed Space Marine like Mephiston, that is another reason him, and of course, Carnifexes, Demon Princes, and other multi wounded high Toughness mighties are so HARD to kill, they can regenarate like HELL. Carnifexes don't get shot in the face and just still goes around, he is shot in the face, and his body goes to regenrate most of the damage, enough that he can keep fighting.

 

Ran

[Brother Styphus]

Aye, he is also a lving embodiment of Snagunius,

 

They already have one of those. It's called the Sanguinor. It's also weaker for some reason.

 

@BrotherMoses; To further prove your point, Gehenne Campaign. The whole thing sinks of that Scooby Doo episode where the Gang (Blood Angels) teams up with the Harlem Globe Trotters (Necrons) and uses their various talents and friendship to solve the mystery of the creepy guy in DRAG (Tyranids). You just have to forget that before the mystery happened, the Gang were actually police officers during 1964. Let the codex hi-jinx begin!

 

Oh Ishida, you just ruined my week of hobbying. Back when a special character was actually special, and when chapter masters didn't join every battle against the 20 dark eldar who threatened to steal their 4 ft^2 expance of land...

[Hemal]

Actually the Sanguinor is often depicted as perhaps the embodiment of Azkaellon. Mephiston is regarded as the spiritual son of Sangunius, the closest that any marine short of the Chaos demon princes has got to the raw power of a Primarch. I'd imagine Primarchs would be S/T 6s and 7s depending on who you were looking at, so that could be a reflection on Mephiston....

 

And remember that Mephiston is a real member of the BA chapter, its Chief Librarian no less, not some apparition or "masked hero" type. And he';s been such since 2nd edition Codex Angels of Death, where, as stated he was already at least 2 notches ABOVE a normal Space Marine hero (as stated he had the same stats as a Vampire Lord, which in 4th edition Warhammer FB was probably the most powerful non-Greater Demon stock character in terms of stats....more so than Chaos Lords and many others...)

[vonny]

Overcoming the Black Rage apparently makes Space Marines into Hive Tyrant and Bloodthirster contemporaries. In other words, Matt Ward waved his magic fluff wand and gave BA's a Hive Tyrant because he thought it would be cool. That's about all there is to it.

 

Actually, he gave them a flying, fleet carnifex with a psychic hood and force weapon, loads more WS, and I, more attacks and more wounds. And more wounds, and no dependancy on synapse, and better sv.

All this packed into the size of a normal human-sized model who has much easier time getting cover than an actual Monstrous Creature. (ot to mention meph actually gets MORE strength than 'fexes most of the time)

 

As a tyranid player, I'm a bit miffed. However, as a space marine player as well, I'm not too bothered by marines with insane stats. Eternal warrior like lysander and T6 like mephi just makes for heroism, the heroes of your army actually doing heroic unbelievable stuff. And that can't be bad, can it? In my oppinion, it makes for all the more cinematic battles.

[Hemal]

Mephiston has, AFAIK, ALWAYS been able to munch Carnifex hide for breakfast. Its nothing new.... Its the otehr stuff that BA get like flying Terminators, Storm Ravens and Descent of Angels which break some of the basic mechanics of the game...

[Ishida]

Oh Ishida, you just ruined my week of hobbying. Back when a special character was actually special, and when chapter masters didn't join every battle against the 20 dark eldar who threatened to steal their 4 ft^2 expance of land...

 

Among the few things I wish 5th Edition had retained from days gone by are generic Chapter traits not wedded to Special Characters and the humble, low-cost Space Marine Leader. Because, unless you're playing 2000 points, I see no reason a junior officer shouldn't be in charge.

[MagicMan]

A Captain is pretty low points. And in smaller games hes one of the tastier close combat options, in 500 - 1000 my Captain generally munches his way through over his points value, and he only costs 148!