Ishida Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 The 3rd Edition version of Codex: Space Marines had the option of taking a 30-point “Space Marine Leader” as the HQ of your force; this represented a junior officer, and was ideal for low-point games. The 4th Edition version did away with low-cost “Leaders” and the latest version continues that trend. Captains, Chaplains, Librarians, and Masters of the Forge start off at 100 points (Chapter Masters start at 125), and any goodies you want merely add on to the cost. I wish there was an option for a lower-priced HQ for smaller games... In the foggy days of Rogue Trader, the Apothercary was an independent character. I miss that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 But that cheap 30pt leader had 1 wound, Ws and Bs 4 and no weapons, so no-one took them unless they were crazy. The 45pts version still had no weapons. A force weapon costs 40pts back then and no-one took them on their Librarians for that. The old Librarians were rubbish, cost 60pts and come un-armed. There is still a call for cheap HQ, but 100pts ain't too shabby for Marines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishida Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 But that cheap 30pt leader had 1 wound, Ws and Bs 4 and no weapons, so no-one took them unless they were crazy. The 45pts version still had no weapons. A force weapon costs 40pts back then and no-one took them on their Librarians for that. The old Librarians were rubbish, cost 60pts and come un-armed. There is still a call for cheap HQ, but 100pts ain't too shabby for Marines. Unless you are playing a 500 to 750 point game. Which I do, indeed, frequently play. Having to plop down 25-35% of my points on a single model is daft. That cheap 30pt leader was handed 5-15 points of wargear and hung out with a Tactical Squad. Truth is, GW has been steadily moving the game to larger and larger battles since the release of 2nd Edition; I'm just old fashioned and still think of it as a skirmish game when GW clearly thinks of it as a war game. I get my skirmish kicks with Death Squads or Kill Zone, but I still miss the old, reliable and humble, Space Marine Leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Unless you are playing a 500 to 750 point game. Which I do, indeed, frequently play. Having to plop down 25-35% of my points on a single model is daft. That cheap 30pt leader was handed 5-15 points of wargear and hung out with a Tactical Squad. Truth is, GW has been steadily moving the game to larger and larger battles since the release of 2nd Edition; I'm just old fashioned and still think of it as a skirmish game when GW clearly thinks of it as a war game. I get my skirmish kicks with Death Squads or Kill Zone, but I still miss the old, reliable and humble, Space Marine Leader. That's certainly true. The game is bigger than previously (to promote sales of course) which has left some of the cool depth behind, sadly. With regards to playing a 500pts game; when we had that 30pts Leader you really could have dropped a single Marine from somewhere to pay the extra 15pts that gave the mode +1 WS, BS, W, initiative and attacks. *shrugs* It's just such a bargain you can't really lose out with by paying just 15pts extra... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irbis Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 As for cheap leaders, doesn't Wolves and Templars get 60 pts characters? Yet, I never saw anyone use them, at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonny Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 me neither, but that might be because I can't field HQ's that cheaply in my marines, or miss all the necessary synapse coverage in my nids, and so hardly play games of such a low points cost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMan Posted February 4, 2011 Author Share Posted February 4, 2011 I play Nids at 500 points. Alpha-Warrior, two Thropes, and a mass of gaunts. Seems to work okay. Admittedly not as well as Marines, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David the Despoiler Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 750 point game, you say?! Abaddon. Land-raider. Two squads of five marines. Battle plan? Step 1: Drive forward. Step 2: Win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Raja Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Among the few things I wish 5th Edition had retained from days gone by are generic Chapter traits not wedded to Special Characters and the humble, low-cost Space Marine Leader. Because, unless you're playing 2000 points, I see no reason a junior officer shouldn't be in charge. Amen! The 3rd Edition version of Codex: Space Marines had the option of taking a 30-point “Space Marine Leader” as the HQ of your force; this represented a junior officer, and was ideal for low-point games. The 4th Edition version did away with low-cost “Leaders” and the latest version continues that trend. Captains, Chaplains, Librarians, and Masters of the Forge start off at 100 points (Chapter Masters start at 125), and any goodies you want merely add on to the cost. I wish there was an option for a lower-priced HQ for smaller games... I read this and thought, "Wait, that sounds familiar." And then I checked: I wrote that! :down: I'm honored you used it. :( As for why Mephiston is more badass than a Hive Tyrant, it's because Nids suck. ;) :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowmonaut Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 As for cheap leaders, doesn't Wolves and Templars get 60 pts characters? Yet, I never saw anyone use them, at all. Space Wolves get a WGBL for 70 points. He gets no Invulnerable save, has 2 wounds, and comes with a Bolt Pistol and Close Combat weapon. The only way to give him an Invulnerable save is to give him a Storm Shield or Terminator Armor. Both of which puts him at 100/110 points respectively. Power Weapons and other goodies cost extra on top of that. When you get done with him, he's usually between 160 and 220 points in order to actually do anything that is worthwhile. This is why you see so many Rune Priests. Both Rune Priests and Wolf Priests are 100 points and come with all the wargear they need. Rune Priests still can't take an Invulnerable save unless you throw them in Terminator Armor (and then its still only 5++) but their utility makes up for that. I can't really speak as to Black Templar, but they are required to take the Emperor's Champion still I believe and isn't he like 160 points? Not even sure if he counts for their mandatory, but he should given Techpriests and other Priests count for IG. As for Mephiston, he's a shock the first few times you play against him. He is a bit ridiculous (the Initiative especially so). But he's not an Independent Character or a Monstrous Creature. So he is stuck being alone, doesn't get Move Through Cover, and with no Invulnerable save most of the weapons that can hurt him easily have low enough AP that he's not getting a save. Yes, it sucks you have to shoot a Lascannon at him. At the same time though he's so easy to kill half the time he's a bit of an expensive gamble for the Blood Angel player, unless they put him in a Storm Raven. Personally I think they didn't do a good job with him. I get he's supposed to be mighty and all that, but he's just not as cool or fun to play as he should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Knight Purifier Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Not quite sure, as I don't have my 'dex on hand, but the Emperor's Champion only comes in at 90 points, but is required to take one of four vows, which run from +20, to +50. He also cannot take wargear, and cannot attach to a squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possessed Marine Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 So, here's the explanation for Mephiston in three convenient words. Pure. Beardy. Cheese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I bet Sanguinius could best a hive tyrant and carnifex with no problem at all. Probably would not break a sweat. Now think about a Librarian who has the most of Sanguinius, who is the ONLY person to have EVER beat the Black Rage. He unlocked a huge amount of power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irbis Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 So, here's the explanation for Mephiston in three convenient words. Pure. Beardy. Cheese. I could characterize the above post in three words, too, but using excerpts from my Chapter's Litanies of Hate against my (supposed) fellow Loyalist feels unsporty :mellow: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Guys, this thread is over a year old. Lets let it just return to its sleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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