Redfinger Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 For Christmas my wife bought a couple of books from the used bookstore, Deus Encarmine, and a 2nd book storied around the Imp Guard., not a bad guess on her part considering I play both armies, I guess she listens to me after all ;) Anyway it was a fairly quick read, took the weekend to get the bulk of it. This is the first 40k novel I have ever read, so I wasn't sure what to expect, that being said though I found the story line to be somewhat cliche-ish, and the characters rather stereotypical. The "gruff" Sergeant, the guilt burdened brother, and the "sinister" behind the scenes string puller(said with maniacal laughter)....The battle scenes were well choreographed and well written with ample detail and a style I feel that was very "space marine-ish" and it definitely kept me turning the pages, but I also feel that the battle scenes and related descriptors were so overdone that when it came to plot points and explanation between battles that the script became bogged down and one dimensional. The final battle involving the sortie w/ the techmarine is by far my favorite part, I felt the back and forth between the goings on in space and the goings on planet side was well done. One of my biggest "beef's" w/ the story is the authors humanization of the space marnies, I imagined a much more stoic, monk like persona for the marines to have, to be as concerned as they were and as stereotyped as they were made them seem little more than human, and far from legendary. All in all I would probably give it about a 6.5-7 out of 10, just for the battle scenes and associated descriptors, those chaos folks can be nasty.....I probably wont ever get around to reading the second novel, but maybe if I saw it at the used book store I might pick it up....who knows.... Ashton Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221314-deus-encarmine/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavement Artist Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 It's a Duology so you're missing out the whole story in a way with out the second part. I've got the omnibus version and finished it recently. I'd heard bad things about the books and to be honest i wasn't overly impressed by the novels. I'm not intending to be disparaging towards Jim Swallow, it's clear that this was his first Black library novel and as such there is a certain crudeness to the writing that pulled me out of the story at times. I've heard tell that the later ones are a marked improvement which i can believe as his later work for the Black library (particularly his Horus Heresy novels) are very good indeed. The issue with space marines is that they're supposed to be these superhuman killing machines that are above and beyond our concept of humanity but at the end of the day, that sort of stoic, post human approach wouldn't necessarily make for a compelling set of characters. Therefore you sort of have to bring in a bit more of a human touch to the Astartes. James Swallow certainly isn't the only Black library guilty of this. It's hard to have space marines asthe main characters in any story and maintain that level of awe that the fluff suggests they command, purely because youre only in the action with Astartes. (The only effective example of a true conveyance of the space marine wow factor is the appearance of the chaos marine in Eisenhorn). The Word Bearers were suitably effective in fits and starts for me. I found the dark apostle to be a bit too Saturday morning cartoon villain. Sort of that cookie cutter chaos lord of the cackling evil variety. The second in command, Tancred was fairly well portrayed i felt. "The Inquisitor is the bad guy, look out!" is so bloody overdone in Black library it just came across as a bit lazy. What with Eisenhorn and Ravenor ending up how they did and every other minor inquisitor being in league with the ruinous powers, im suprised the inquisition has any level of authority in the Imperium. Im not even bothering considering that a spoiler, the guy pretty much has a neon 8 pointed star above his head, it's telegraphed almost immediately, you start wondering if it's a red herring but nope-just blindingly obvious. The introduction to the omnibus by James Swallow says that the novel was expanded into a duology at the request of the editor. My issue is, the two novels end up feeling like sums of a lesser part because of it. Instead of having one nice and tight novel we end up with two really stretched narratives. On looking back at the first book, the scope of it feels a bit odd. It has action on two planets and thats pretty much that. Compare that to most BL novels that are generally much more sweeping in scope. I wish they'd allowed him to expand it into a trilogy of novels that afforded him the space to properly flesh the narrative out and most importantly- not make the antagonist so sodding obvious. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221314-deus-encarmine/#findComment-2643491 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I enjoyed the first novel and the last novel. The first novel has my all time favorite scene - Mephiston Black Raging shooting laser beams out from his eyes, firing his plasma pistol and whacking Chaos Marines with his force sword - all simultaneously. It's funny that Swallow is continually chosen to write novels for our chapter knowing how much he is hated for these books. It's kind of ironic and sometimes I think he wrote the novels following the first one intentionally bad just to piss people off here. Oh well - what can a battle brother do? Hopefully he will up his game for the upcoming HH BA novel. If he does a good job I think it would go a long way here to redeem him. G ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221314-deus-encarmine/#findComment-2643502 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavement Artist Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Well the intro claims that he constantly has people asking him when the next novel is coming out which would indicate a strong following for the novels. I dont think it was an intentional move, like i said, Deus encarmine was his first BL novel, it was always going to have flaws. I'm looking forward to his Horus Heresy Blood Angels novel, flight of the eisenstein was fantastic so i have high hopes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221314-deus-encarmine/#findComment-2643516 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherTim Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 While blatently obvious, the plot was entertaining. I really like the concept of the legendary weapon and I wish it would have somehow been incorporatd into our codex; kind of like yerial (prob misspelled) for eldar. Anyway, the story actually inspired me to do a conversion that you can check out here. Also, if you thought the action at the end of the first novel, you will love the ending of the second. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221314-deus-encarmine/#findComment-2643529 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 My main issue with the first novel was the Blood Angels blindly following the orders of the Inquisitor. We all know that would never happen in RL. ;) G ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221314-deus-encarmine/#findComment-2643534 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodWulf Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 My main issue with the first novel was the Blood Angels blindly following the orders of the Inquisitor. We all know that would never happen in RL. :D G :D agreed. I find in many Space MArine Novels it seems rather easy for Chaos to dupe them at times. But anyway, abuses of canon which may have been involved in this set I still really had fun reading them. I like Abnett's stuff better butstill I didnt hate these 2. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221314-deus-encarmine/#findComment-2643723 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavement Artist Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I've heard a lot of people complain about the Blood Angel's being so duped in the novels but i honestly found it more feasible for them than a lot of other chapters. They're constantly fighting against the psychological scarring that their primarch's death has left on their legacy. Sanguinius was butchered in horrific circumstances and the chapter still bears the weight of that sorrow today. The inquisitor was playing some effective chords with his plan, i couldn't imagine not a single Blood Angel wanting to hope against hope that maybe Sanguinius lives on. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221314-deus-encarmine/#findComment-2644035 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 tbh the novels have a somewhat lazy plot but the writing style itself isent all that bad. i found his latest novel to be a great deal better compared to the previous novels. it was all still predictable but it was brought in such a nice package that i hardly could hate him for it. some scenes were just right hilarious, others pretty good horror scenes. he gets better over time. and tbh its hard to write a story about marines and chaos without having the mandatory inquisitor skulking around :) i like to think he used the powers of the warp to trick us, and not his own charms :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221314-deus-encarmine/#findComment-2644189 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Kezef Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Forked out 40 quid for every BA novel in the Black Libby catalogue so hoping i havn't wasted my money. I keep an open mind and try to judge each novel i read on it's own merits. Crossing my fingers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221314-deus-encarmine/#findComment-2644203 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodWulf Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 is there a 3rd one out now? What is it called? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221314-deus-encarmine/#findComment-2644451 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Devil Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I've heard a lot of people complain about the Blood Angel's being so duped in the novels but i honestly found it more feasible for them than a lot of other chapters. They're constantly fighting against the psychological scarring that their primarch's death has left on their legacy. Sanguinius was butchered in horrific circumstances and the chapter still bears the weight of that sorrow today. The inquisitor was playing some effective chords with his plan, i couldn't imagine not a single Blood Angel wanting to hope against hope that maybe Sanguinius lives on. Very true. How much of a fool would any of us make of ourselves if promised what we really wanted. I find the plot of the first two books believable. As the reader of the story we have a greater view of the plot than the characters involved. So it is easy to fall into "I would never fall for that" trap, when reading stories about powered armored mary sues. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221314-deus-encarmine/#findComment-2644506 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 is there a 3rd one out now? What is it called? Four, actually. The third one is Red Fury. The fourth is Black Tide. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221314-deus-encarmine/#findComment-2644511 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 what most readers tend to forget is that the inquisitor used some heavy warp magic to fool the blood angels. something the apothecaries (IIRC) couldnt detect and was only found when an librarian set eyes on him (forget how the warped brother was called...) and when he did he went completly beserk. the brothers present dident know why he attacked them (im sure he called it out, but things like that tend to be lost in a chaotic situation and with an manipulative inquistor around... ;)) so were royally confused. generally when people are confused and theyre told something that is marginally believable they might just believe it.. the scenes where the inquisitor does his thing makes it clear in just how much **** they got themselves in... the extra story that came with 1 of the books also explains why (supposedly) the blood angels trust this inquisitor so much. but tbh, if id heard what they had heard id be more suspicious then anything :huh: but oh well may just be me :P holy hell im defending the awfull plot and lazy story writing here :huh: :pinch: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221314-deus-encarmine/#findComment-2644517 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodWulf Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Four, actually. The third one is Red Fury. The fourth is Black Tide. what the bloody hell? When did these come out! well, guess I need to get over to Amazon again today. @Demo, no worries man, we wont tell anyone else what you did, besides it just shows what a loyal Son of Sanguinious you are :) :cuss Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221314-deus-encarmine/#findComment-2644572 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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