Ecritter Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 All of them look good and would fit any number of Chapters. Question is, is that how you see your marines? It may be better to wait a bit till the concept is more developed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221373-a-final-stand/page/3/#findComment-2645591 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted February 3, 2011 Author Share Posted February 3, 2011 I shall concoct some more zany ideas to be included in the IA - if it ever gets past this idea stage :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221373-a-final-stand/page/3/#findComment-2645592 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Hunter Ydalir Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Well after playing for 30 years, I can tell you D&D is well worth it ... but stay away from 4.0. Agreed wholeheartedly. Not that I've played for 30 years, but about 10 and it's damn fun, providing you've got a good imagination. Opens up to more diverse roleplaying settings than just fantasy as well. Forgotten Realms is my favourite fantasy setting overall, but at the moment I'm in a group playing a Sci-Fi (Firefly inspired but not ripped off) RP using D20 Modern rules. All good fun and all from having that first D&D game. Damn, this sounds like an advertisement for D&D. Moving swiftly along.... I like the colour scheme, though I'm not entirely sure about the Biker gang theme. I'll have to see more before I give my opinion for or against, not that you need it, I'm just saying I'm on the fence for now. The fence isn't comfortable, let me tell you. *edit* I shall concoct some more zany ideas to be included in the IA - if it ever gets past this idea stage Though to be safe, don't write anything up properly yet, no drafts. Just do an outline and slowly build it up before you get onto the details. Surest way to build something dodgily is to rush ahead too quickly for your own good. *edit2* EDIT: Next person who doesn't use the painter background grid is getting flailed! Wholeheartedly agree. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221373-a-final-stand/page/3/#findComment-2645628 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted February 3, 2011 Author Share Posted February 3, 2011 I shall concoct some more zany ideas to be included in the IA - if it ever gets past this idea stage Though to be safe, don't write anything up properly yet, no drafts. Just do an outline and slowly build it up before you get onto the details. Surest way to build something dodgily is to rush ahead too quickly for your own good. Once I come to a write up I'm probably going to let this thread die and do it properly.. This is for me to bandy my ideas about and see what sticks. I'm all for input from others, otherwsie why would I be here, but there will be certain ideas that I'm keeping - like those already mentioned in Post #1. To be honest, I'm actually quite excited about this.. I don't feel I have to post every six seconds but I like the ideas I have. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221373-a-final-stand/page/3/#findComment-2645648 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecritter Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Agreed wholeheartedly. Not that I've played for 30 years, but about 10 and it's damn fun, providing you've got a good imagination. Opens up to more diverse roleplaying settings than just fantasy as well. Forgotten Realms is my favourite fantasy setting overall, but at the moment I'm in a group playing a Sci-Fi (Firefly inspired but not ripped off) RP using D20 Modern rules. All good fun and all from having that first D&D game. Damn, this sounds like an advertisement for D&D. Time to derail the derail-master's thread. FR was always my favorite world ... but recently I've found Iron Kingdoms. Its a Steampunk D&D setting put out by Privateer Press. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221373-a-final-stand/page/3/#findComment-2645719 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted February 3, 2011 Author Share Posted February 3, 2011 The Council of Chiefs - "peace-time" instituion where each warband Chief has a say in the way the Chapter is run. High Chief - During times of war when the Chapter requires a unified front, one Chief is designate the High Chief and performs a role similar to that of a Chapter Master. I'm still stuck on the idea of the Varangian Guard.. But I might make this less of an institution and make it a particular bands quirk. In terms of favourite methods of war, again I may just make this a quirk personal to each warband. Iconography; I'm going to go with display of the Chapter icon and the personal heraldry of the Chief. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221373-a-final-stand/page/3/#findComment-2645836 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Hunter Ydalir Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 FR was always my favorite world ... but recently I've found Iron Kingdoms. Its a Steampunk D&D setting put out by Privateer Press. I've heard bits and pieces about Iron Kingdoms, but not much else. The reason I like FR is because within it is contained all the shades of grey you can assign to fantasy. From the gritty, dark and twisted world of Athkatla with the Shadow Thieves, the slavers and general slums and injustice within, to the verdant Sword Coast with Orks and Bandits all over the place. Then there's Icewind Dale and the Norse overtones of awesomeness. Anyway I digress, I'll stop the derail. :D The Council of Chiefs - "peace-time" instituion where each warband Chief has a say in the way the Chapter is run. High Chief - During times of war when the Chapter requires a unified front, one Chief is designate the High Chief and performs a role similar to that of a Chapter Master. I like this, but don't forget to give reasoning for it if you're going to go for it. This kind of thread is good to discuss the reasoning behind the departure from the Codex too so give it a whirl. What are your thoughts? What would lead to this kind of change in the way the chapter deals with leadership? Are there ever any problems with the method? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221373-a-final-stand/page/3/#findComment-2646547 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecritter Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Okay using what you have so far, I've come up with 3 different possible Chapter symbols for your review. http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c162/ecritter/chain.png Can be any color you want. http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c162/ecritter/planet.png http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c162/ecritter/planet2.png Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221373-a-final-stand/page/3/#findComment-2646931 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted February 4, 2011 Author Share Posted February 4, 2011 http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c162/ecritter/planet.png I likeses this one, mainly for the planet colour.. Though may be slightly hard to reproduce on a mini :) On the note of Codex divergence, I'm kinda' stumped because the only reason I can think of.. Is a bit far fetched to my mind: Chapter begins as strictly Codex-adherent but some campaign leads to severe losses, with a single Company breaking free from the threat of extinction that such adherence is bringing. With the main part of the Chapter destroyed, that single Copany becoming the Chapter in the eyes of the Imperium. The Chapter begins to rebuild, under the direction of it's new Chief, going from one extreme to another. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221373-a-final-stand/page/3/#findComment-2647024 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecritter Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Firstly, change due to a single great loss is overdone. Second, loss to a single company seems a bit extreme. Let me do some research and I may have a suggestion for you later on this. Now on to the images ... after all the hard work I did on the top one, you go and pick one of the other ones. :) EDIT: Okay going off the White Scars organization I come up with this. The Chapter organization of the White Scars reflects their home world's tribal culture. White Scars recruit from a single planet, Mundus Planus. The steppes of the world are inhabited by feuding tribes, from which are chosen the best and most promising young warriors, regardless of tribe. Once a warrior becomes a White Scar, loyalty to his tribe is replaced by loyalty to the Chapter and the Emperor. As their Primarch did during his campaign to unite the steppes, recruits from different tribes are mixed together in squads. Each squad becomes part of a Brotherhood, roughly equivalent to a standard Company. You can simply have each Company recruit from a separate tribe ... with inborn distrust deep ingrained in their background. So every Company recruits and trains separately ... and prefers to fight independently. Of course loyality always goes to the Chapter and they will and do support each other if called upon. So basically they feel loyality to the Company first, then Chapter, then Emperor. This will also continue the biker feel ... since thats what the White Scars are known for. And look at this. A unique formation within the Chapter are the Souldrinkers, Space Marine veterans that excel in close combat. These Marines are armed with power-swords and refractor fields and bear their own distinctive shoulder badges and honour banners. Veterans with swords ... sound familiar? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221373-a-final-stand/page/3/#findComment-2647031 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted February 4, 2011 Author Share Posted February 4, 2011 It was my first thought, never said it was a good one :angry: I like detailed symbols.. The first one would look good properly applied to a mini, but I like complexity! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221373-a-final-stand/page/3/#findComment-2647055 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecritter Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 It was my first thought, never said it was a good one :angry: I like detailed symbols.. The first one would look good properly applied to a mini, but I like complexity! Check my edited post above. On the Chapter Badge you want simple ... now for Chaper Symbol you will get more complexity. All those weapons and the skulls on chains were not originally blank color ... I can always redo for the CS with real textures, and put them on a nice background for you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221373-a-final-stand/page/3/#findComment-2647061 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted February 4, 2011 Author Share Posted February 4, 2011 Ah it's all so complex! Why can't I just have great ideas and they magically become an IA!? :angry: I can't think of a single decent reason to how they come to their organisation, beyond it eminating from their homeworld. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221373-a-final-stand/page/3/#findComment-2647075 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecritter Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Ah it's all so complex! Why can't I just have great ideas and they magically become an IA!? :angry: I can't think of a single decent reason to how they come to their organisation, beyond it eminating from their homeworld. Keeping the White Scars basic organization with a slight divergence is about as simple as you're gonna get ... and still get to where you want to go I think. In the end it should take very little explaining. EDIT: Check these. http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c162/ecritter/chain3b.png http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c162/ecritter/chain3a.png again, this can be any color you want. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221373-a-final-stand/page/3/#findComment-2647082 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted February 4, 2011 Author Share Posted February 4, 2011 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221373-a-final-stand/page/3/#findComment-2647129 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecritter Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 I know, I'm amazing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221373-a-final-stand/page/3/#findComment-2647136 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heru Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 I can't think of a single decent reason to how they come to their organisation, beyond it eminating from their homeworld. They lose their first homeworld. + They get a new homeworld / get a new of recruiting worlds (stronger). + The old marines don't mesh well with the newbies / and the newbies from different worlds don't mesh well with each other either. + Friction + White Scars geneseed = Inter-Chapter Conflict (not a civil war, but infighting between units and companies, old vs new). Conflict over time causes shifts in the Chapter's organization, as groups band together with "their own kind". Basically if you have the book Legends of the Space Marines, read the Scythes of the Emperor story, and add White Scars geneseed to the Sergeants opinions on his Scouts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221373-a-final-stand/page/3/#findComment-2647281 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted February 5, 2011 Author Share Posted February 5, 2011 I can't think of a single decent reason to how they come to their organisation, beyond it eminating from their homeworld. They lose their first homeworld. + They get a new homeworld / get a new of recruiting worlds (stronger). + The old marines don't mesh well with the newbies / and the newbies from different worlds don't mesh well with each other either. + Friction + White Scars geneseed = Inter-Chapter Conflict (not a civil war, but infighting between units and companies, old vs new). Conflict over time causes shifts in the Chapter's organization, as groups band together with "their own kind". Basically if you have the book Legends of the Space Marines, read the Scythes of the Emperor story, and add White Scars geneseed to the Sergeants opinions on his Scouts. I have read that as it goes, it was one of the least interesting stories so far I thought but that's by the by. Actually the whole friction thing would lend itself well to the concept of duelling Champions that I have in mind.. That then also means that what once started out of necessity then becomes tradition right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221373-a-final-stand/page/3/#findComment-2647752 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecritter Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 I still say basic White Scar, with a bit of modification, gives you everything you need. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221373-a-final-stand/page/3/#findComment-2647786 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted February 5, 2011 Author Share Posted February 5, 2011 I still say basic White Scar, with a bit of modification, gives you everything you need. Heru has a nice idea, but to be honest.. The more I think the more I like it less. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221373-a-final-stand/page/3/#findComment-2647802 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted February 6, 2011 Author Share Posted February 6, 2011 So, after browsing the Storm Wardens section of the Deathwatch RPG I ave decided how the Codex divergence will work. The Wardens drawn on alot of the native culture of their world, so this is a feasible concept for me to us, and coupled with the history and experiences of the White Scars with regards to tribes and "Brotherhoods" this seems like the perfect fit. Plus, I can then use the word "Seer" to title Librarians.. Any ideas on what the Scars call their Apothecaries or Techmarines though? I've yet to come across a difference there. This also means I can just describe a single world in a bit more detail. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221373-a-final-stand/page/3/#findComment-2648938 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Hunter Ydalir Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Plus, I can then use the word "Seer" to title Librarians.. Any ideas on what the Scars call their Apothecaries or Techmarines though? I've yet to come across a difference there I don't think there is a difference in terminology there. I also don't think there needs to be. Too many 'unique' changes for changes' sake quickly become staid and end up being tiresome. A couple here and there are great but to change everything is taking it overboard. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221373-a-final-stand/page/3/#findComment-2648957 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted February 6, 2011 Author Share Posted February 6, 2011 Plus, I can then use the word "Seer" to title Librarians.. Any ideas on what the Scars call their Apothecaries or Techmarines though? I've yet to come across a difference there I don't think there is a difference in terminology there. I also don't think there needs to be. Too many 'unique' changes for changes' sake quickly become staid and end up being tiresome. A couple here and there are great but to change everything is taking it overboard. It isn't changes for changes sake.. At the heart of it I want the Saxon/tribal culture, so using different titles is part of that I believe. Seer = Librarian Healer = Apothecary Smith = Techmarine I think they fir without being overboard. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221373-a-final-stand/page/3/#findComment-2648961 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Culture =/= funny names. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221373-a-final-stand/page/3/#findComment-2649010 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecritter Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 White Scars already use the term Stormseer for Librarians, and each Company is a Brotherhood. So it's not that much of a stretch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221373-a-final-stand/page/3/#findComment-2649014 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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