Hive guard

[maturin]

Sparhawk - :D

 

Breng - Stated as I have there, the rule only applies when there is "cover they are in" or "cover they are touching". There is no separate phrasing that requires you to be in cover or to touch cover in order to gain cover. ie, you could still get it the usual other ways (units obscuring, etc).

 

It's a bit of work explaining this, but honestly it's how I interpreted the rule when I read it (as a relatively new 40k player), and still seems logical by RaW, though I'd play by RaI since the nids seem to need help anyways. :)

[breng77]

Breng - Stated as I have there, the rule only applies when there is "cover they are in" or "cover they are touching". There is no separate phrasing that requires you to be in cover or to touch cover in order to gain cover. ie, you could still get it the usual other ways (units obscuring, etc).

 

I guess the way you wrote it there you are correct but without a comma (which should appear before the or in a compound sentence) you need to assume the first interpretation.

[maturin]

Without any commas at all to guide us in the rulebook, I don't think you have to assume either interpretation. Neither one is more correct than the other, grammatically. To properly phrase the sentence the way you're interpreting it, it would need to be a compound sentence as well....which as you point out, it is not.

 

Which is why it's a horribly written rule.

[breng77]

well I won't argue that it is well written for sure. But GWs editotial staff is not renowned for their abilities to make sure things are clear.

[maturin]

On that, we can agree.

 

:angry:

[TraceofToxin]

Easy answer;

 

Vehicles only ever get cover saves from wargear/special rules.

 

Why?

 

Precedent.

 

Tau Smart Missile Systems are worded verbatim the same. Tau FAQ states, "The target will only receive cover saves that are not based on line of sight. This would include when at least half the unit is in area terrain; or a vehicle with wargear or a special rule that means they are obscured".

 

Vehicles only gain cover saves from being, "Obscured", which is granted from 50% blocking LOS or a special rule. If you can't gain obscured because of LOS then you can only gain it through special rules.

[timmytool]

I think that in a purely RAW reading of the rules for this ability it only stops 1 form of cover save and even then only in some circumstances.

 

the rule has 3 sentences:

1 no line of sight necessary to fire(this does not remove the los for other purposes)

2 wiki "If is a conjunction that can introduce a conditional clause." the loss of cover save in this statement is only for 2 types of cover saves (they are in or touching) and only when the conditional clauses is true.

3 this statement has only one real world affect it disables the alternate facing rule BRB p62 column 1 last paragraph

 

C:T p 47

"*The impaler cannon can shoot any target in range, regardless of whether there is line of sight to it or not. The target can only count the benefits of cover they are in or touching if it lies between them and the Hive Guard. Vehicles are always hit on the armour value facing the hive guard."

 

"if" links a condition to a statement so "The target can only count the benefits of cover they are in or touching if..." sounds to me as listing two types of cover saves that have a additional condition for their use.

 

firer

 

-----(target)-----

| cover |

-------------------

 

As this area cover that the target is 50% in is not between them and the hive guard they dont the cover save.

 

This rule RAW wise does not remove any cover saves, apart from area cover if it does not lie between them and the Hive Guard. This is the only cover save from the BRB that satisfies the conditions in the hive guard rule.

 

BRB p21 "When is a model in cover?" sentence one has no affect on this BRB rule it only allows you to fire without LOS no other affect, two... only when they are in or touching(the cover granting obscurity) and the conditions are met, and 3 only affects tanks in one circumstance.

 

BRB p22 "Exceptions" point 1, 4 and five negate cove and work as normal, point 3 "Firing through units or area terrain:" is unaffected by the rule as the target is not in or touching the cover and if they where it would by definition be between them and the Hive Guard. Point 2 is the only point that could be negated by the hive guard rule and only when the 'if' conditions are met.

[Captain Idaho]

It seems pretty obvious to me:

 

The impaler cannon can shoot any target in range, regardless of whether there is line of sight to it or not. The target can only count the benefits of cover they are in or touching if it lies between them and the Hive Guard. Vehicles are always hit on the armour value facing the hive guard.

 

Let's break it down.

 

The impaler cannon can shoot any target in range, regardless of whether there is line of sight to it or not.

 

Pretty easy this bit.

 

The target can only count the benefits of cover they are in or touching if it lies between them and the Hive Guard.

 

A little confusing, but break it down in reverse like this:

 

If the target is touching or behind cover, it only benefits from the cover save if that cover is between the Hive Guard and the target.

 

Clearer?

 

Basically you fire the Impaler cannon by drawing an imaginary line to the target and if any cover obscures Line of sight to the target from the Hive Guard and falls under the line you drew, then a cover save is granted.