Firepower Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 So, I'm currently tossing around an idea in my head, and I'd like to know if this sounds plausible. Directly following the Age of Apostasy, a Chapter is founded in secret by those holding power on Terra and a lingering distrust for the Ecclesiarchy. The Chapter is founded with the primary mission of monitoring and rooting out any new potential demagogues within the Imperial Church. To this end, they are equipped with a fleet of information gathering, stealth, and other primarily espionage related ships. The gene seed of Corax is chosen as a template, given the predisposition for pragmatism and overall shadiness famous among the Raven Guard and their successors. Due to the need to keep the Chapter a secret, for fear of another civil war should their existence and purpose be discovered, everything has to be done under the table. As a result, more high profile and hard to gather Astartes equipment like Power Armor, Terminator Armor, Dreadnoughts and the like are exceedingly rare. The Chapter is not even given a name, and on those occasions where they do have to deal with other bodies of the Imperium (i.e. the Ad Mech) they impersonate marines of other Chapters. Essentially, the Chapter consists almost entirely of scout armored Astartes acting as spies, secret police, and occasionally assassins in an effort to keep another Vandire from rising to power in the Imperial church. Of course, as the Ecclesiarchy becomes self monitoring with newly established Ordos Militants, and the paranoia of other Terran administrations towards the Ecclesiarchy wavers in turn, the original mission is pretty much scrapped. Still, the Chapter knows that their discovery, even after the fact, could mean another civil war, and so they engineer a false history. They find a homeworld, and go to great lengths to create a false history that, among other things, places their founding several centuries before the Age of Apostasy. Given their abilities and arsenals of information gathering and recon oriented gear, they become a famous watch-dog around the Eye of Terror. So, plausible? Salvageable? Utterly loony? Any C&C will be most welcome. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221447-is-this-feasible/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shiny One Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 I would argue that this is the job of the inquisition, so a secret operation in the Inquisition is totally plausible but not really a Space Marine Chapter, as they are constructed to fight wars and not secret missions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221447-is-this-feasible/#findComment-2645392 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysimachus Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 I'd have to agree that this is more the Inquisition's territory, and while they might have certain assets available to them (spies, assassins, etc) it is far easier to use normal or enhanced humans than it would be to use Astartes. Remember that a Space Marine is big, even without his power armour, and that makes it very hard to keep a low profile. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221447-is-this-feasible/#findComment-2645394 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firepower Posted February 3, 2011 Author Share Posted February 3, 2011 Yeah, the thing is (if my Imperial history is correct) the Inquisition was founded as a reaction to the Age of Apostasy. This Chapter idea lies in the concept that powers on Terra outside the Ecclesiarchy wouldn't yet trust the Imperial Church to monitor itself, thus petitioning the SM chapter in secret. Then, as the distrust wavers and the Inquisition proves itself, the Chapter reinvents its purpose and covers its tracks. Edit: Ah...after doing a bit of research, it turns out I was completely mistaken about the Inquisition....damn. Still, perhaps the failure of the Inq. to stop the AoA simply served as further incentive to have another, relatively small but independant check n' balance system. I like this idea, and I'd like to find a way to make it work without breaking all the rules, but I'm certainly not against bending them :cuss Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221447-is-this-feasible/#findComment-2645400 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Hunter Ydalir Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Edit: Ah...after doing a bit of research, it turns out I was completely mistaken about the Inquisition....damn. Still, perhaps the failure of the Inq. to stop the AoA simply served as further incentive to have another, relatively small but independant check n' balance system. I like this idea, and I'd like to find a way to make it work without breaking all the rules, but I'm certainly not against bending them I don't like the 'secret founding', but in regards to the chapters mandate it could always be that they were told to 'watch' the Ecclesiarchy and as such have never given up their mission. Eternally suspicious of the Ecclesiarchy and it's new Adeptus Sororitas. They are there as a 'reactionary force'. If anything goes wrong, or a demagogue does indeed begin to threaten the balance of power within the Imperium or simply escapes the Inquisitions gaze, the chapter steps in and beheads, or nips it in the bud, before too much bad mojo can happen. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221447-is-this-feasible/#findComment-2645430 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shiny One Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 But 1000 marines being in charge of the whole Ecclesiarchy, seems also a little bit light...Just wanting to observe the Ecclesiarchy or just not trusting them could be a good chapter theme though, like Anti Black Templar. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221447-is-this-feasible/#findComment-2645444 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Could it not simply be a self-imposed mission? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221447-is-this-feasible/#findComment-2645509 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firepower Posted February 3, 2011 Author Share Posted February 3, 2011 Yeah, I'm thinking the whole 'secret founding' thing might make it all too complex. Given the slightly more humanitarian than normal disposition of Corax's sons, I think it wouldn't be much of a stretch for them to decide on such a mission by their own volition after the atrocities of the Age of Apostasy. Still got to do a lot of work there, but I have some working color schemes and symbols to share. This is my first time fooling around with photo editing/paint programs, so it's a bite crude, but I rather like it :( Chapter symbol, working title "Watcher's Eye" http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz201/Wills40k/DIY/Watchereye.jpg Chapter Initiate: http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz201/Wills40k/DIY/WatcherInitiate.jpg Chapter Sargeant: http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz201/Wills40k/DIY/WatcherSargeant.jpg Very similar to raven guard, but with a deep gray as the primary color, and none of that Codex company colors on the shoulder trim :( . Might fool around with it a bit more. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221447-is-this-feasible/#findComment-2645606 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Hunter Ydalir Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Honestly I like the colour scheme. Maybe a tiny splash of colour here and there as accessories or something, but it looks alright to me. Your chapter symbol isn't bad, though the eye is always a very chaos oriented symbol but it doesn't look very chaos-ey so I suppose you can get away with it. Your work with whatever editor you're using is better than anything I can do, good work. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221447-is-this-feasible/#findComment-2646551 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Still, perhaps the failure of the Inq. to stop the AoA simply served as further incentive to have another, relatively small but independant check n' balance system. And it was called the Ordo Hereticus. :angry: Nah, I'm teasing. OH isn't independent, nor is it a check on the rest of the Inquisition. Of course, a Space Marine chapter keeping watch on the Inquisition, keeping them in-line, stretches belief for me as it's simply too much. What was that quote about about... men and their watches? Yeah, that one. You know the quote. The one I never want to hear again. So while it makes more sense for it to be a self-appointed mission, I still feel like it needs to be made more distinct from the Inquisition than it is now. Or else I'm going to find myself wondering things like "why don't you just use Codex Witch Hunters?" or "maybe you could make a DIY Sororitas order, that'd be neat and we don't see a lot of those." But with some care, this can be a great Chapter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221447-is-this-feasible/#findComment-2647054 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 The Ordo Malleus is responsible for watching the Inquisition, as it goes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221447-is-this-feasible/#findComment-2647056 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Well the Inquisition is responsible for watching the Inquisition, really. Malleus keeps an eye on everyone to make sure they aren't getting too casual about daemons, Xenos keeps an eye to make sure the other Inquisitors aren't hiding away heretical xeno-tech they find, Hereticus makes sure the Malleus Inquisitors are keeping proper attitudes, and so on. It has tons of sub-organizations for just that reason. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221447-is-this-feasible/#findComment-2647071 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 No.. Aside from dealing with Daemons, the Malleus Ordo are also the internal policing system for the Inquisition. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221447-is-this-feasible/#findComment-2647078 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 I don't see anything about that in either Codex Daemon Hunters or the Dark Heresy Core Rulebook. Citation? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221447-is-this-feasible/#findComment-2647105 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firepower Posted February 4, 2011 Author Share Posted February 4, 2011 Hrum...well, I don't envision them as watching the Inquisition per se, merely the Ecclesiarchy. Granted, the Inquisition is a body of the Ecclesiarchy (I think?) but that is not to say the Ecclesiarchy is composed entirely of Inquisitors. You have preachers, priests, saints, Ordos Militant (Malleus, Xenos, Hereticus), inquisitors, scribes, and all sorts of complicated nonsense. Of course, it is the job of Inquisitors to root out any insidious goings on within the Ecclesiarchy and the Imperium as a whole, but I don't think this is an exclusive jurisdiction. Space Marines don't have to call in the Inquisition every time they uncover heresy or treasonous governments and cults after all. And let's not forget the Inquisition was around well before the Reign of Blood, and weren't particularly effective in curtailing the events, but the Black Templars were. So then, the question is largely how they relate to the Inquisition due to the overlapping interests and resulting jurisdictional turf wars. One possibility would be a sort of loose association, based on a tenuous but effective "trust" (or as trusting as Inquisitors can be) established by successful campaigns against treasonous cults, and possibly some other agreement like a high rate of Deathwatch volunteers. Of course, it is not as though the entire Inquisition would particularly like, or even refrain from seeking to censure the Chapter, considering that the Inquisition is largely a collection of individual autonomous units as opposed to a singular entity. Perhaps they just have good enough standing with some to avoid any major problems. Essentially I think it would be a relationship of some mutual, if shaky respect, seeing how if any trait would be respectable to Inquisitors it would be a distrust of one's fellow man. The other option is a standoffish relationship, which is a slippery slope. Most Chapters that cross the Inquisition don't stick around very long. Since, again, the Inq. is composed of loosely associated individuals, it's not as though there's any real chance of gaining some political leverage over the Inq. to avoid the "Traitor" label either. The only way this would remotely have a chance of working is if the Inq. was never able to accumulate enough evidence to pin any inexplicably sudden and bloody removals of Ecclesiarchy members on the Chapter. Considering I see these fellows as more of a Night Lords-styled disposition (i.e. the threat of their retribution serves to scare many potential heretics strait), it wouldn't blend well with a history of never being positively ID'd at the scene. Operating primarily around the Eye of Terror slightly reinforces the idea too, seeing how camping next door to the biggest Warp rift in the galaxy ups the likelihood of threats from within. They're equipped with a fleet highly specialized for reconnaissance and information gathering, but it'd be used as much to monitor the Eye as it is to monitor the locals for anything amiss. Perhaps only a fraction of the Chapter is at home at any one time, while the rest are spread out Throne-Knows-Where watching from the shadows. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221447-is-this-feasible/#findComment-2647106 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mordray Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Okay... I think you need to peruse the librarium... In fact I'm certain of it. No I'm not going to hunt down the related articles. The Inquisition is a group of loosely affiliated individuals (no formal organization just a web of alliances and contacts) that answer only to the Emperor of Man himself. The Inquisition is the watchdogs of the Imperium the Ecclesiarchy doesn't control them it fears them. While some Inquisitors will likely be working to augment the Ecclesiarchy's status there are others working to weaken it. The Ordo Hereticus wasn't formed until after and as a direct result of the AoA... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221447-is-this-feasible/#findComment-2647121 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Hrum...well, I don't envision them as watching the Inquisition per se, merely the Ecclesiarchy. Oh right, sorry. I was just thinking aloud and accidentally went on a tangent. Just pointing out a place you could have taken it but didn't (and shouldn't). Granted, the Inquisition is a body of the Ecclesiarchy (I think?) They are not. They're as autonomous as the Adeptus Astartes are. So then, the question is largely how they relate to the Inquisition due to the overlapping interests and resulting jurisdictional turf wars. One possibility would be a sort of loose association, based on a tenuous but effective "trust" [. . .] . Essentially I think it would be a relationship of some mutual, if shaky respect, seeing how if any trait would be respectable to Inquisitors it would be a distrust of one's fellow man. The other option is a standoffish relationship, which is a slippery slope. I see pros and cons to both. Neither seems more correct than the other, at least not to me, so it comes down to: since these would be different stories, which story is more interesting to you? Operating primarily around the Eye of Terror slightly reinforces the idea too, seeing how camping next door to the biggest Warp rift in the galaxy ups the likelihood of threats from within. They're equipped with a fleet highly specialized for reconnaissance and information gathering, but it'd be used as much to monitor the Eye as it is to monitor the locals for anything amiss. Perhaps only a fraction of the Chapter is at home at any one time, while the rest are spread out Throne-Knows-Where watching from the shadows. I like this. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221447-is-this-feasible/#findComment-2647122 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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