Non Logan footslogging tactics?

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

So I currently run a 50/50 army half mech half DP. I want to start running a footslogging horde type list but I haven't been able to find ANY updated tactics that does not include logan, don't get me wrong I like the old man but I don't want him in my list. Also this will be for a force of at least 2k points ranging up to Apocalypse size (without super heavies or titans). I've been collecting Wolves for over 10 years so I have about 6k worth of wolves to choose from with a few exceptions, also I would like to keep as few vehicles as possible for fluff reasons. So if anyone can give me a run down on the army as a whole with maybe a break down on specific units that work best. Any help would be appreciated.

[Grey Mage]

Make sure you have Landspeeders to give your list some tactical speed and precision firepower. Wolf Scouts to get in close and tie things up- and to push the enemy forward with the threat of OBEL.

 

Give your GH packs WGPLs, with Terminator Armor and/or stormshields. This will help their survivability.

 

Stormcaller, and Tempests Wrath to slow down the enemy.

 

Long Fangs and Dreadnaughts (if you have the space) for fire support.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

With the revised stealth rules, a blob of Blood Claws led by a Wolf Priest with Saga of the Hunter with a Rune Priest casting storm caller on them will provide a decent shield for the rest of your troops. 4+ cover on the move.

[breng77]

I also get the feeling that Wolf Cav of some variation are going to be important for a non mech approach due to the speed they offer (something foot lists lack in general.)

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

See what I had been thinking is to have a force divided into 3 parts (this isn't based off points cost yet).

 

What I'm thinking is to have a vanguard made up of Wolf Scouts, DP TDA Wolf Guard with Wolf Lord and Sky Claws that will get to the enemy lines first and take out armor that can be troublesome for my infantry as well as provide a distraction.

 

The second group will be GH and BC with a WGBL to lead the BC and 2 RP in TDA with my GH and WG from the same unit as the TDA bodyguard. In front of them would be some Fenrisian wolf meat shields and behind them will come a plasma cannon dred and once I get up to Apocalypse a couple Lone Wolves who will get in to the combats that need them.

 

My last group would be nothing but Long Fangs with missle launchers.

 

How does that sound?

[breng77]

Sounds like it could work ok, I would go with a WOlf Priest leading the Blood claws, not a WGBL, and perhaps add a WG to that squad with a power fist, making that your big hammer, that your opponent will have to deal with.

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

See I know that the WPs Oath of War rule can make BCs killer but the reason I have a WGBL in the squad is because I have a Lone Wolf model that I want in my army just because it looks so cool :) and since in a 2k game I won't have an actual Lone Wolf in my army outside Apocalypse games it's the best way I can think of having my model in my army.

 

Now I'm debating should I move my dread into that vanguard group and give him a drop pod so he dosen't get taken out before he can get to the enemy? And if I give him the pod I'm thinking of switching his cannon to a multi melta, but a part of me thinks that if I keep the cannon and he scatters I'll have a little more range to work with then if I'd given him a multi melta plus I'd be abe to take out infantry better.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

The other advantage of using a Wolf Priest to lead your meat shield Blood Claws is that they become fearless. To stop their advance they'll have to kill every model.

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

Not to sound rude but I already know the advantages but I'm still going to use a WGBL for the same reason I already mentioned.

 

What do you guys think about the dread in a DP? and is having 2 RP a bit much or is it fine, I'm mainly taking them for storm caller to give my guys some cover plus their rune weapons will be usefull in cc.

[Wysten]

Two Rune Priests is redundant, you want everything moving forwards and you need numbers to take the damage you will incure, Long Fangs, Thunder Wolf, scouts or landspeeders to reach across the board. A single rune priest is designed to provide psy defence and essencally act as a glorified squad leader, two of them is not efficent in terms of making their points back, since you won't need to spread your psy defence out that much.

[Valerian]

So I currently run a 50/50 army half mech half DP. I want to start running a footslogging horde type list but I haven't been able to find ANY updated tactics that does not include logan, don't get me wrong I like the old man but I don't want him in my list. Also this will be for a force of at least 2k points ranging up to Apocalypse size (without super heavies or titans). I've been collecting Wolves for over 10 years so I have about 6k worth of wolves to choose from with a few exceptions, also I would like to keep as few vehicles as possible for fluff reasons. So if anyone can give me a run down on the army as a whole with maybe a break down on specific units that work best. Any help would be appreciated.

 

 

I'm going to just quote myself from a Footslogging thread from a few months back:

 

You can do "footslogging" and be successful, but you'll still need mobility. A lot of the game is about getting where you need to go. 2 of 3 standard Missions require you to get you units to Objectives to control them, while the final mission still requires you to get into position to destroy enemy units for Kill Points.

 

Mobility comes in two forms: Operational Mobility (getting to the battlefield), and Tactical Mobility (moving around on the battlefield). With Behind Enemy Lines, our Wolf Scouts have excellent Operational Mobility, and can arrive usually right where you want them on any board edge; but once the arrive they only have average Tactical Mobility. Drop Pod deployed units are similar with good OM, but average TM. It's a good idea to have one or more of these units in your footslogging lists.

 

Swift Claws, And Thunderwolf Cavalry have average OM (nothing special), but have great TM (especially Swift Claws with ability to Turbo-boost.

 

Sky Claws and Land Speeders have excellent TM, and with ability to Deep Strike, can have improved OM, as well.

 

You will need several units with good mobility to perform the tasks that your otherwise footslogging infantry will not be able to do for you. You won't be able to walk Grey Hunters all across the board to control enemy objectives or assault enemy support units. However, your units with good mobility can take care of those tasks (at least contesting objectives for you), while your Grey Hunters, Wolf Guard, and others work on preventing the enemy from achieving his goals.

 

Many folks go "pure" and try to footslog every unit, Drop Pod every unit, or go mechanized and put every unit in a rhino or razorback. I go hybrid, with a little of each, in an attempt to get the exact capability that I think I need for each unit. My "typical" list consists of one unit in a Land Raider, three in Pods, one on Bikes, two coming in Behind Enemy Lines, and the rest just walking. Works well for me.

 

Valerian

[hendrik]

while i completly agree with you on the tactical part val i must say the list you mentioned isn't exactly a footslogging horde list, neither is the list jarl mentioned actually. to my understanding horde list usually feature a large amount of packs, squads, etc

if you want to have a big footslogging list i'd say 3 lang fangs packs+ as much ntroops as you can take, footslogging offcourse.

don't hope to have the same results as with a more tooled list like val mentioned however

[Valerian]

while i completly agree with you on the tactical part val i must say the list you mentioned isn't exactly a footslogging horde list, neither is the list jarl mentioned actually. to my understanding horde list usually feature a large amount of packs, squads, etc

 

You are absolutely correct Hendrik, and that is pretty much my point. My assessment is that the game requires more mobility to win with some consistency than a true "horde-type" footslogging list can support. Thus, I recommend a hybrid list in which the hordes are augmented with non-mechanized, but highly mobile elements.

 

V

[Wysten]

It's simple science that all hordes with Marines just is not that effective. Our troops are generally more costly in compersion to other none power armour codexes, so we will always be out numbered. Two Grey Hunters almost buy a Rhino which is more protection vs small arms fire and more speed to get where needed. So going true hordes, like massing 40/50 marines is silly unless you have a some way of getting power exactly where you need it. We much accept facts that simply massing power armour is not the answer as they are not efficent at getting A to B quickly, nor fighting as they often have to give up shooting entirely if they want to close to melee compat quicker.

 

In short, we have to find a way of nullifying the weaknesses of footslogging, while taking advantage of the fact we don't have armour. Spear of Russ formations get around this by having ranged fire in all it's units and often making even the troops choice relatively useful and tough when not in optimal range, allowing them to fight engagements on even terms all round. Grey Hunters suffer from a fairly short effective range of needing to close within 12 inches or hiding on the objective to do something.

 

For me, this pretty much means focus in the way you would with eldar. Either 4 small squads of grey hunters, 2 large squads of grey hunters, or a single power blob of Blood Claws buffed by Wolf Priest to generally create your own cover. With enhanced leadership providing a simlar effect and a smaller Grey Hunter unit to sit on the objective. Their main objective is to generally footslog up, capture objectives and generally support the main advance by being hard to shift, providing some close range anti tank and generally a Jack of all trades, master of none that gets in there to help clear messes.

 

From there, Thunderwolf, scouts, Long Fangs, Sky/swiftclaws and Speeders become the bread and butter of the main army, providing many, varied threats that tax your oppoments defences and provides a horde style in a manner that matters, rather then a large threat that will get rapidly wittled down by a lack of inherient flexability. Orks can often end up being slaughtered dispite the weight of their greater numbers due to the reduced tactical flexability of their immense size.

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

I hope this dosen't sound rude but none of you are really helping me :jaw: pretty much all of what's been said is is to change my army composition. Well I've already said that isn't what I want. I have at least one of every single unit in the codex except for TWC so I very well could change the composition, I could also run any type of list that I wanted. My point is that this is the composition I want in my army, I'm looking for tactics I could use with this composition. Not alternative compositions, I appreciate the responses but you're all telling me to do something that I don't plan on doing and so it dosen't really help me ya know?

[Jonas Stromclaw]

No need to get restless friend, they do love to go off on their little tangents. I usually run smaller games, but my army works using the exact same principle. You have the right ideas, especially the DS/OBEL/fast attack spearhead: very important for disrupting gunlines. I would highly suggest giving your dreadnought a droppod and multimelta. This unit, while very effective, also offers some oppurtunity for hilarity. There is nothing funnier than the look on a tau player's face when his precious hammerhead has been blown to kingdom come without firing a shot. Another important thing to remember is to not be distracted by shiny toys: make sure you have AT LEAST one troops unit with full numbers per 500pts. You will take more casualties with this kind of list and should take more bodies accordingly. Good luck and make sure to post a battle report, I would like to see a list similar to mine in action.

[Wysten]

Fair enough, just saying that tactics start from the list, because currently I have the impression of:

 

1 Squad of Wolf Scouts

1 Squad of Wolf Guard, plus Wolf Lord

 

1 Squad of Blood Claws, with Battle Brother and a Wolf Guard

1 Squad of Grey Hunters, enhanced by 2 Rune Priests in Termie Armour and 1 Wolf Guard.

 

1 Squad of Skyclaws

1 Small squad of Fen Wolf

 

Assumingly 3 Squads of Long Fangs.

 

The main issue is, you have about 600/700 invested in 4 charcters, and most of your units are not really threats to most armies until about turn 3, depending on the game type so generally the Long Fangs are a target for turn 1 and 2 to layer their firepower on, or focus firepower on the squads and hope Long Fang shooting is not effective. A single squad of skyclaws is not a huge deal in the same way a single small Thunderwolf pack is not a huge deal. Though on the flipside it forces a choice, fire at the Long Fangs or fire at the 3 400+ squads. Heheh

 

As for tactics, aside from marching forwards, alloting wounds onto the battle brother/rune priests/Wolf Lord is probably recommended, since it enables you to keep your squad intact for longer, unless your aiming to use the squad to preserve the HQ. Better armour means they are less likely to take wounds from long range shot. Though Strength 8 and above this is not really recommendable. Just the longer you can keep your squads

 

Otherwise, as said, I don't really see the point of two Rune Priests. They can be spent to make more Scouts which can perhaps give more insentive to move close to your forces, give them some power weapons and a Wolf Guard and you have several threats which can come from anywhere. I would probably say they are better at disruption then Skyclaws, because you don't want them to deploy further back, you want them to be driven forwards into your forces. That, or deploy so many Fen Wolves that they are forced to shoot them down first, otherwise everything has a cover save moving forwards, the tyinards use that tactic to homagants to great effect, perhaps even deploying the Wolf Lord/Battle Brother with them to use his immense leadership to keep them together, with 17 possible Fen Wolves and possiblity of a good armour save, not to mention it looks pretty intimidating.

[Shadow warrior]

Hello,

 

I like your idea and I am making a foots loggers list to. But it is hard to find some good tactics maybe we should ask some Ork players for advise :lol:

The advantage of having no armour is that al melta weapons must be shot at troops, effective but not there job.

 

I think in a foots loggers list there must be a fast element, swift-claws or Thunder wolves. Why not sky claws? I think they are not effective enough and have staying power for the GH to arrive. Fenrasian wolves are a good expensive 4+ save screen but I think is cruel, the wolves are friends not replaceable things very unfluffy and if the wolves arrive what then? they cannot break armour so i would drop these to or need to run with thunder wolves of course.

 

My only biggest fear is Leman Russ not the man but the tank, the battle cannon can be a big spoiler of fun and other templates so it is important the fast element meet the treat first. No Landspeeder because that is a vehicle and unfluffy but worse the only thing the anti tank of the enemy is hunting for and reserve meant the anti tank can come to late.

 

Best go with swiftclaws or thunderwolves that can close fast and be durable for the back up to arrive (and support of longfangs). Space wolves does not need strong hero's we're a pack of wolves and wolves are not strong build. they pick the weakes prey and attack with many... of course there are alpha males who coordinate the attacks. I think this is the basis strategy of foot list.

 

My inspiration has stop for now, hope this helps.

 

footsloggers list are not gone people just don't think about them any more.

 

Sincerely,

 

Dylan

[MaleOpener]

Hail Wolfbrother!

 

This should be the information you're wishing for :D

 

On Foot, Like Russ Intended

[saphius]

My first suggestion is to take advantage of 10 Strong GH packs W/ a Terminator attached. - Heavy Weapon if possible.

 

Also, don't run a single vehicle. If you want a good footslogging list, cut every vehicle. A few speeders will soak up every lascannon and missile launcher in the world.

 

What your list needs is Grey Hunters, a full compliment of long fangs, Thunderwolf cav, maybe even Regular wolves. Scouts are great but one slot needs to be for WG and the other two will be either scouts or lone wolves, whatever you prefer.

 

As far as HQs really you have a lot to play with. Both kinds of priests work, Thunderlords are great, really just add what you want. I will say that if you're lacking any Calvalry or bikes at least you will be hurting for some mobility.

[Quillen]

Back in 3rd edition I won a tourny foot slogging Space Wolves. It was a mircle. Foot slogging is basicly giving the advantage of speed to your enemy. Your handing him movement for a few more models that can not get where they need to be before dieing.

 

Honestly I would just go with a Pods list or all Mech. All mech works awesome. All Pod can have awesome games. So I would go that route.

 

And if your asking a question as to what to use in a foot slogging force. You said it. Best have 3 Long Fang packs to cover them. They will need a ton of fire to cover and kill enemy transports so you do not get flanked and eaten piece-meal.

[Adarul Greystalker]

Since you're asking for tactics, I'll try to give you some tactical advice and try to stay away from the composition advice and the "is footslogging viable?" questions.

 

I think your army deployment strategy makes sense. It's very similar to what I like to do with my hybrid mech list. I call it the Three Swords deployment, using a gunline division, a tactical division (same as your vanguard), and a large, strong army core division. The main tactical problem I could see you having is the lack of speed for your core division, which, as I understand it, will be completely footslogging. I always assume that my own army core will also be moving slowly because I know that my rhinos can take damage early on. The tactic that I use to ensure that my slower forces get into combat with the enemy is to use them to seize the center (no surprise there, I know) and use a lot of outflanking forces to deincentivize my enemy from deploying on board edges to get away. Wolf scouts are obviously the best units to employ for this kind of tactic, but land speeders are also excellent. If you don't have many outflankers or prefer not to outflank due to board considerations (such as spearhead deployment where one of the short board edges is likely to be completely vacant), you can perform a manual flanking maneuver with fast units such as the sky claws that you mentioned. If your vanguard is strong enough, you can mount a strong attack against an enemy flank and threaten to encircle them, making the stand-off gunline strategy much more difficult to pull off. Honestly, though, outflankers do work best for this strategy, because they make your enemy fear their own board edges, knowing that literally any unit deployed along one of them is vulnerable to a potentially very destructive alpha strike. It's this kind of aversion to the normally safe areas of the battlefield that we want to induce when relying on close-ranged units that aren't necessarily fast. Foot slogging armies can often too easily be defeated before the game starts through intelligent deployment. It's much easier for your opponent to effectively castle if he knows that you're not fast enough to maneuver and come at him from a different angle. By conceding the ability to choose the direction of your attack, you allow the enemy to form up at his advantage and your expense. The point of your faster/vanguard units is to force him to use a formation that is capable of guarding its flanks and therefore will not be able to defend against your main force as easily. In order to do this, you'll have to ensure that the vanguard is threatening enough to punish your enemy if he chooses not to guard his flanks.

 

Honestly, a well-built footslogging army with a fast vanguard/tactical division should theoretically be able to annihilate an army that's more heavily invested in speed, especially in objective games. The key is that you use your vanguard in such a way as to prevent the enemy from easily forming up to his advantage. This may simply mean keeping the entire board threatened through the use of wolf scouts, or it may mean threatening to deep strike or maneuver around the enemy's flank in order to avoid his screens and get at the more vulnerable, choice bits. This should help to get the rest of your forces into combat as well, and you'll have much greater strength in your main force than someone who spent a lot of points on transports and inherent mobility for his entire force instead of just a portion of it.

 

On a side note, you have been asking one composition question that I've noticed regarding whether or not using two rune priests is a good idea. In my opinion, it is absolutely a good idea. If you're relying on stormcaller (which you often will be), one rune priest will likely not always have coverage over all of your squads that need it. Certainly if you spread a large squad across your front line and ensure that it gets a cover save, that would be good enough, but you won't always have the luxury of doing that. Furthermore, you might get flanked, fail a psychic test, have your power negated, lose one of your priests early on, or have to divide or spread your forces out. Having stormcaller to protect your expensive infantry from shooting is part of your plan, and including a second priest makes that plan more resilient for a relatively minor cost, the importance of which can not be underestimated.

[narf]

Try the following list

 

3x rune priests, 1x CotS, 1x runic Armour.

1x6 WG 4x PF, 5x Combi Melta, 2x TDA, 2x TDa PF, 1xCyclone = 293

1x10 GH, 2x MG, Wulfen, Standard = 175

5x15 BC, 2x Flamer, Power Weapons = 1200

 

= just under 2000 points

 

Gives you good anti horde, some anti tank, all footslogging, and 94 bodies.

 

Yes you will loose some marines squads before you reach the enemy, and your main firezone is 12", you may also run into things the army cant handle, or is out manouvered by, but imagin you opponent realising hes almost out number, if not actually outnumbered by marines :(

[MaleOpener]

Try the following list

 

3x rune priests, 1x CotS, 1x runic Armour.

1x6 WG 4x PF, 5x Combi Melta, 2x TDA, 2x TDa PF, 1xCyclone = 293

1x10 GH, 2x MG, Wulfen, Standard = 175

5x15 BC, 2x Flamer, Power Weapons = 1200

 

= just under 2000 points

 

Gives you good anti horde, some anti tank, all footslogging, and 94 bodies.

 

Yes you will loose some marines squads before you reach the enemy, and your main firezone is 12", you may also run into things the army cant handle, or is out manouvered by, but imagin you opponent realising hes almost out number, if not actually outnumbered by marines :P

 

 

I like this list, though I'd change a few things...

 

1. I'd drop a RP for a WP w/ runic armor.

 

2. I'd take only one BC pack. I love them so, but your gimping yourself in CC.

 

3. Packs of GH should be the "backbone" of your list.

 

4. Take packs of LFs with MLs, as you're going to be able to take out targets from a distance. This include, yet not limited to, Tau suits/ tanks, those damn BA dreads with blood talons, etc.

 

 

Just my two tankards of ale :lol:

[narf]

I like this list, though I'd change a few things...

 

1. I'd drop a RP for a WP w/ runic armor.

 

2. I'd take only one BC pack. I love them so, but your gimping yourself in CC.

 

3. Packs of GH should be the "backbone" of your list.

 

4. Take packs of LFs with MLs, as you're going to be able to take out targets from a distance. This include, yet not limited to, Tau suits/ tanks, those damn BA dreads with blood talons, etc.

 

 

Just my two tankards of ale :P

 

 

2x rune priests, 1x CotS, 1x runic Armour

1x Wolf Priest

1x9 WG 6x PF, 6x Combi Melta =330

6x10 GH, 2x MG, Wulfen, Standard = 1080

2x6 LF, 1xHB, 4x ML = 270

 

Still under 2000 points, but only 84 models, but improved anti tank, and combat ability is lowered for the amount of attacks, but improved for the amount of hits taken in combat