Alvarius Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Going through the BA dex i've noticed something. The fluff has them pictured as not only warriors, but also a kind of artists and artificiers. This is also reflected in the sanguinary guard (a whole unit in Art. Armor, with MC power weapons). So why... WHY?! Why is it that a BA captain doesn't have the option of taking artificer armor? I thought it might be a mistake, and looked into it through the FAQ and dex erreta on the GW site, but there is no mention of the matter. Anyone have some ideas? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221596-blood-angels-artificers/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khorne Worny Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 So the captain is a less then optional choice in the hopes you buy special character or another more expensive HQ then the generic captain. Fluff wise the captain should be more diserving of wearing artificer armour more then anyone except Dante the chapter master. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221596-blood-angels-artificers/#findComment-2647619 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gv0zD Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Going through the BA dex i've noticed something. The fluff has them pictured as not only warriors, but also a kind of artists and artificiers. This is also reflected in the sanguinary guard (a whole unit in Art. Armor, with MC power weapons). So why... WHY?! Why is it that a BA captain doesn't have the option of taking artificer armor? I thought it might be a mistake, and looked into it through the FAQ and dex erreta on the GW site, but there is no mention of the matter. Anyone have some ideas? Mate, this is the question that bugs many of us. However, there is no clear answer. But BA VV Sarges can take Glaive Encarmine :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221596-blood-angels-artificers/#findComment-2647624 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebsolom Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Not only can't he take Artificer armour or a Glaive Encarmine but he doesn't even have Rites of Battle! It does irk me somewhat that they have become a non viable HQ selection, forcing you away towards named characters. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221596-blood-angels-artificers/#findComment-2647627 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairman_woo Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Its left most of us scratching our heads TBH, missing it on printing was one thing, afterall I think they missed frostblades for wolflords (or something like that I forget exactly what) but for it to then not get FAQ'd or even mentioned is a bit crazy. We can see why say relicblades weren't included due to the prevelance of furious charge (S7 and I7 could be a bit much I guess tho it would have made up for captains doing nothing else usefull whatsoever). But glaives and arificicier armour arguably the two most iconic pices of wargear in the book (after grails)! This is my only lasting gripe with the codex, everything else I have learned to live with and or understand. I am building a regular captain tho, he has golden terminator armour, a glaive and a lightning claw, which I intend to count as a pair of claws. The book might say he cant have a glaive and fancy armour but goddamitalltohell he's getting them! even if it has to count as a LC and termy armour. Its not ideal but for the same pts as a reclusiarch with a JP you can have a termy captain with twin claws which in a assault terminator squad isent so bad due to his high initiative and relativeley large volume of attacks (hopefully with furious charge to boot). Not optimal but entirely viable if you really want a captain. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221596-blood-angels-artificers/#findComment-2647691 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Yeah, its just poor planning to make the BA captain subpar compared to the Librarian, Reclusiarch and named characters. Rites of battle would have helped (I believe Rites should never have been taken away from Captains, both BA and Vanilla) as well as some unique weapons options. Such as a pair of claws and a stormbolter or combi-weapon. Something no one else can do. Or a Glaive/Stormshield/some kind of shooty option. This would make them far more attractive. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221596-blood-angels-artificers/#findComment-2647738 Share on other sites More sharing options...
capitalist1 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 You can take a captain with Artificer Armor, just take a "counts at Tycho" Model. Afterall after Tycho died its not like they are never gonna use "Blood Song" or the "Dead Mans Hand" again. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221596-blood-angels-artificers/#findComment-2647744 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmbattledSoul Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 id think the storm chicken, and deepstriking landraiders full of deathcompany would compensate lol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221596-blood-angels-artificers/#findComment-2647790 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairman_woo Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 id think the storm chicken, and deepstriking landraiders full of deathcompany would compensate lol. I dont think anyone is suggesting this breaks our codex or anything. Its just a bit of a headscratcher, why would you gimp our regular captain so unecessarily? I'm not especially unhappy, just a little bewildered. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221596-blood-angels-artificers/#findComment-2647830 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roesor Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 I love customising my characters, I bought the BA dex and some stuff a good while ago fully intending to begin a BA army properly, and was so sickened by the sheer stupidty of this I turned back to Templars. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221596-blood-angels-artificers/#findComment-2647870 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairman_woo Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 I love customising my characters, I bought the BA dex and some stuff a good while ago fully intending to begin a BA army properly, and was so sickened by the sheer stupidty of this I turned back to Templars. Righteous indignation much? Its only one type of non special charachter in a codex with plenty alternatives, this seems somewhat of an extreme response to a minor stimuli, like disowning a band you liked because they had one rubbish track on their new album. Mind you having spent as much time on Tyranid forums as I have I have seen worse reactions... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221596-blood-angels-artificers/#findComment-2647934 Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAGABOND Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Thats funny because me and my mate were talking about this the other night, also as wwell if anyone has noticed that LOTD Sergeants come with Plasma Pistol but can't actually take one. Silly GW :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221596-blood-angels-artificers/#findComment-2647962 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Relic Blades not being in the list is stupid, because they 'strike at S6' so they don't even benefit from the S bonus of Furious Charge. I have no idea what they were thinking when building the Blood Angels Captain, especially when you look at the Space Wolf Lords Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221596-blood-angels-artificers/#findComment-2647984 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alvarius Posted February 5, 2011 Author Share Posted February 5, 2011 Well, they didn't think about tourneys with the "no named characters" rule. And sadly it's the option that apears most often in my area :/ Besides, yes, you can take a "count as tycho" captain. But what about the people that want to field a 100% jump pack force? What about people that would like to have the option of a jump pack equiped, thunder hammer swinging captain in artificer armor? Vanilla marines get AA for their captains/masters. SW get runic armor for wolf lords/WG battleleaders/rune nad wolf priests. Every SM dex has the option of giving a non terminator 2+ sv armor to their non SC HQ. BA don't.... being fluff, and army list wise one of the most artificer full chapters (ok, xept for iron hands and about as much as salamanders. So, what gives?) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221596-blood-angels-artificers/#findComment-2648002 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Pretty much everyone in tournaments takes Librarians anyway. They also kinda made Reclusiarchs redundant too. It's just the fact you cant put Lemartes in a transport other than a Raven that means you don;t see him every time over a Chaplain, like you did in pf 'dex era Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221596-blood-angels-artificers/#findComment-2648010 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairman_woo Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Pretty much everyone in tournaments takes Librarians anyway. They also kinda made Reclusiarchs redundant too. It's just the fact you cant put Lemartes in a transport other than a Raven that means you don;t see him every time over a Chaplain, like you did in pf 'dex era Dunno about Reclusiarch's they are noticably more resiliant than a libby and not subject to counter psyker stuff, they make it into plenty tourney lists. Libbies are bloody awsome but they arnt total no brainers. Captains are another matter.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221596-blood-angels-artificers/#findComment-2648020 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 If you run a DoA list with no Librarian, you are insane. Reclusiarchs arent useless, but Lemartes is a really amazing choice if he fits Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221596-blood-angels-artificers/#findComment-2648024 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Chris Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 It was obviously a very late change to the rules, or indeed a mistake, as the WD issue which accompanied it includinge Captain models with artificer armour and one weilding a glaive encarmine. The colour picture in the codex shows the captain model wearing exactly the armour it uses in the wargear section to illustrate 'artificer armour'. I don't think it actually maters in play since 'counts as dante' is the artificer armoured glaive wielding jump-packed captain and 'counts as Tycho' is the artificer armoured, glaive weilding rites of battle conferring captain. We only can't come up with the souped up bike-riding captain. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221596-blood-angels-artificers/#findComment-2648029 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairman_woo Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 If you run a DoA list with no Librarian, you are insane. Reclusiarchs arent useless, but Lemartes is a really amazing choice if he fits Even if we just take that as a self evident truth (which I dont, but I do understand your reasoning), what about the rest of the competition armies? Razor & rhino spam (of which there are many versions), and blood/nipplehammer at the very least both have perfectly decent openings for a Reclusiarch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221596-blood-angels-artificers/#findComment-2648043 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alvarius Posted February 5, 2011 Author Share Posted February 5, 2011 It was obviously a very late change to the rules, or indeed a mistake, as the WD issue which accompanied it includinge Captain models with artificer armour and one weilding a glaive encarmine. The colour picture in the codex shows the captain model wearing exactly the armour it uses in the wargear section to illustrate 'artificer armour'. I don't think it actually maters in play since 'counts as dante' is the artificer armoured glaive wielding jump-packed captain and 'counts as Tycho' is the artificer armoured, glaive weilding rites of battle conferring captain. We only can't come up with the souped up bike-riding captain. Like i've said. All good and fine. But what about tourneys that don't alow the use of special characters? We don't get anything as an artificier armoured captain with a glaive encarmine. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221596-blood-angels-artificers/#findComment-2648150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Weasel Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Like i've said. All good and fine. But what about tourneys that don't alow the use of special characters? We don't get anything as an artificier armoured captain with a glaive encarmine. Ones that don't' allow SC are gimping people unnecessarily. Now a days with SC's doing significant things... no SC, so no all sang list, no raven wing, death wing ect ect... in any case, there isn't any AA, so take something else. it's not like there isn't options, just no ONE option you want..;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221596-blood-angels-artificers/#findComment-2648166 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 I love customising my characters, I bought the BA dex and some stuff a good while ago fully intending to begin a BA army properly, and was so sickened by the sheer stupidty of this I turned back to Templars. A +1 bonus to your armor save is so drastically important that you quit the army altogether? That's... wow. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221596-blood-angels-artificers/#findComment-2648185 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roesor Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 I love customising my characters, I bought the BA dex and some stuff a good while ago fully intending to begin a BA army properly, and was so sickened by the sheer stupidty of this I turned back to Templars. A +1 bonus to your armor save is so drastically important that you quit the army altogether? That's... wow. It was more the stupidity of the fluff, I have to admit I'm more of a fluff gamer than competitive, so even though I understand it's probably to correctly balance the army, fluffwise, it sooooo dumb O.o It's..well, it's like sacrificing the story behind 40k purely for the gaming element. I know it's not a huge thing but still, part of it was also that I was looking forward to having, at the time, updated equipment like relic blades and such and having an AA, SS relic blade captain, I bought the 'dex and models with an army list firmly in mind, and because of this...stupidty, deliberate or not, I couldn't. So rather than build a new army, I simply went back to my old and faithful one and also at the time all the other shiny things in the dex weren't properly availiable, like the Stormravens and furioso's and such, and the stuff that was availiable that interested me was expensive in both points and, considering I had already bought models, money. Also, krak missiles, vengence rounds, the thousand sons and noise marines weapons...etc O.o They simply bounce off my reclusiarchs because of their 2+, meaning you save a member of your squad every time you make one ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221596-blood-angels-artificers/#findComment-2648253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 The fluff bears no difference whatsoever to the rules of your HQ. You can still field your converted captain wielding a Glaive Encarmine in ornate Artificer Armour. They just count as power armour and a power weapon. It is no reason to stop playing an entire army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221596-blood-angels-artificers/#findComment-2648259 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roesor Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Well. It was O.o So there? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221596-blood-angels-artificers/#findComment-2648262 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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