Baal Predators and Psychic Hoods

[Eenami5]

Two questions from a recent game:

 

When a Baal Predator with Heavy Flamer sponsons fires, can the templates from the flamers be placed over the tank, or do you have to place the templates in a way that they don't actually touch the tank?

 

Can a single Psychic Hood be used against multiple psychic attacks/abilities in a single turn, or would you have to have a separate Psychic Hood for each power you wanted to nullify?

 

Thanks!

[KhorneHunter57x]

When a Baal Predator with Heavy Flamer sponsons fires, can the templates from the flamers be placed over the tank, or do you have to place the templates in a way that they don't actually touch the tank?

They cannot touch the tank.

 

Can a single Psychic Hood be used against multiple psychic attacks/abilities in a single turn, or would you have to have a separate Psychic Hood for each power you wanted to nullify?

It can be used against as many powers per turn as you want. You just can't have two hoods attempt to nullify the same power.

[Eenami5]

When a Baal Predator with Heavy Flamer sponsons fires, can the templates from the flamers be placed over the tank, or do you have to place the templates in a way that they don't actually touch the tank?

They cannot touch the tank.

 

 

That's what I though, but I couldn't find it in the rulebook, do you know what page that is on?

[Grey Mage]

Pg. 29, right hand column, paragraph 3, sentence #1.

 

A model is in fact 'friendly' to itself.

[Wildfire]

Whew, two separate questions. I was racking my brain trying to think of how a baal and a psychic hood could possibly interact!

[Brother-Captain Devlonir]

A model is in fact 'friendly' to itself.

 

Are you absolutely sure? It IS a Blood Angels vehicle you know.. ;-)

 

Sorry!

[Eenami5]

Does that also mean that the Flamestorm Cannon can never fire, since the turret is on top of the tank, and when you put the tail end up to the front of the barrel, it still covers part of the front of the tank?

[Frosty the Pyro]

Does that also mean that the Flamestorm Cannon can never fire, since the turret is on top of the tank, and when you put the tail end up to the front of the barrel, it still covers part of the front of the tank?

we have done this before.

the rules say you trace LOS from the from the turret. you also measure range from the turret, however flamer rules say you place the template so the narrow end is touching the base of the firing model. Vehicle rules state you use their hull instead of base when aplicable.

 

 

So as long as you have clear LOS to the target from the turret, and when you messure range by putting the template from the turret to the target the target is in range, you may then place the template at the hull instead of the turret for the roll hits step of shooting.

[Algesan]

Does that also mean that the Flamestorm Cannon can never fire, since the turret is on top of the tank, and when you put the tail end up to the front of the barrel, it still covers part of the front of the tank?

 

Measure from the "base of the model" or IOW, the hull.

[Eenami5]

So, can you do the same thing with the sponsons? A sponson IS a turret, so can you measure range from the sponson flamers, but then place the template at the hull when determining wounds?

 

Also, what is the rulebook source page for measuring range from one place (the turret) and firing from another (the hull), or is it just a special case because the weapon is a flamer?

[SeattleDV8]

You still place the template at the end of the weapon.

BRB FAQ

Q: If a model fires a template weapon out of a vehicle, will

the vehicle be hit if it is underneath the template? (p66)

A: No it will not be hit."

 

Although this is addressed to passengers firing out of fire points, it does give us a way to deal with it.

[Eenami5]

You still place the template at the end of the weapon.

BRB FAQ

Q: If a model fires a template weapon out of a vehicle, will

the vehicle be hit if it is underneath the template? (p66)

A: No it will not be hit."

 

Although this is addressed to passengers firing out of fire points, it does give us a way to deal with it.

 

So, with that being said, I'm back to my original question: Can the templates from the sponsons cross over the tank?

[shatter]

Seems to me, given the above FAQ and others' comments, you need LOS from weapon but templates from hull. As it doesn't say where on the hull, one is free to place it where ever the turret meets the hull (conservative) or anywhere on the hull (beardy). From the FAQ specifically, one can say the hull is no longer considered a friendly model or unit, instead it's not relevant for hit determination.

[Eenami5]

So all in all, I imagine this is one of those things that, since there's no black-and-white rule/answer, it'll ultimately be up to your gaming group/tournament organizer, eh?

[Emperors Immortals]

Does that also mean that the Flamestorm Cannon can never fire, since the turret is on top of the tank, and when you put the tail end up to the front of the barrel, it still covers part of the front of the tank?

 

 

 

Very cool answer, +1 Coookeeez.

 

 

 

Seriously thoguh, sponson weapons have arcs of fire they have to observe, sorry i cant remember my reference in teh bible.(BRB).

[DAG42]

You have 3 firing types being discussed here: Turret mount which rotates and reaches out. Template place at the end of weapon.

Sponson which has a fixed firing arc of degrees, that has a definite LOS issue.

Troops firing from inside which are presumed to be aimed carefully by the troops from fire point.

 

Common sense tells you what can or can't be done.

[Wulfenstein]

Common sense doesn't apply to a lot of people though... !

[DAG42]

Common sense doesn't apply to a lot of people though... !

 

I know. As with any game common sense suffers when people try stretch rules to their favor for the win at all cost attitude.

[Prot]

When a Baal Predator with Heavy Flamer sponsons fires, can the templates from the flamers be placed over the tank, or do you have to place the templates in a way that they don't actually touch the tank?

They cannot touch the tank.

 

 

That's what I though, but I couldn't find it in the rulebook, do you know what page that is on?

 

 

Does that also mean that the Flamestorm Cannon can never fire, since the turret is on top of the tank, and when you put the tail end up to the front of the barrel, it still covers part of the front of the tank?

 

1) it never physically intersects the tank

2) it still has true LOS to the target (with the side sponson this would be impossible)

 

That would be my answer (and again common sense has to come into even 40K at some point.)

 

I notice in every example that someone is TRYING to sell the idea that the sponson can fire is that they are using examples of some other weapon firing that may 'cover' an area of the tank. In NONE of those examples (RE: ZERO) does the template physically intersect (IE: HIT) the tank in question.... unless you're trying to use a side sponson.

 

Even though I can't see any reason to actually allow this, if we had to break this down in its simplest form, trying to use the main turret firing a template COVERING (NOT touching the hull) and saying "A HA I must be able to fire the side sponsons because my top turret covers the hull" is a totally bogus comparison.

 

Think of it this way.... when you flame a building, you can flame the second floor of said building, ground level, right? Well that template is COVERING some potential targets on the ground floor. They don't get hit.

 

I think it's ludicrous to have to go that deep to explain the scenario but for some people I guess you really gotta break it down. Even if common sense isn't kicking in.... Again, I think the two main issues involve the template physically intersecting the tank, and LOS.