Carnivores

[Uprising]

Warning, I am not the best writer(Just ask my English Teacher :rolleyes: ) and please take it easy this is my first DIY.

Cyrus looks down in disgust as he see his chaotic brothers being tear limb from limb by the savages of the Carnivores. Cyrus starts to remember the numerous sent backs on this Death World of there arch enemy, The Carnivores. Cyrus suddenly remember the prize that lie somewhere on this rock and the importance of obtaining it. Cyrus Return his focus to the battle field infront of him. He Barks out orders for his havoc to release death from there four autocannons from there position. Suddenly there was a noise from the thick vegetation on his right flank. Cyrus was only able to scream “Clever Loyalist” as he was tore apart by a Carnivore. As he laid on the jungle floor all he saw was his squad being tear apart by there chainswords. The last thing Cyrus heard before he died, was the voice of the Carnivore that cut him done say “Welcome to the Jungle, Traitor!” You get a cookie if you get the movie refernce. :lol:

Name: Carnivore

Founding: 23th founding, Early M37

Geneseed: Ultramarine

Why was the Chapter formed The sector of(Name pending) has recently experience a massive amount of chaos actively in the sector. Local PDF were quickly overrun by an invasion of chaos cultist under the command of a chaos Warband of the Word Bearers. When the Mortifactors 3rd Company and the Cadian 239th entered the sector only two Forge worlds were under the command of the Imperium. The Mortifactor under the command of Chaplain(name pending) quickly turn the tide of battle. Near the end of the war the chaos warband stilled hold the Penal World, The Death World Thanatos and the forge World. The Morifactors led a three pong strike against these worlds. The Finale planet known as Thanatos, was to be purged by Chaplain(name pending). Fate was not on the side of Chaplain(name pending), for the thunder Hawk en route to Thanatos was shoot down while landing on the surface. After 65 days the survivors purged the final elements of the warband. What happen on Thanatos during these 65 day is a complete mystery to everyone but the survivors. When the survivors return to the 3rd company ship, they were forever changed. Chaplain(name pending) instead of being an epitome of a chaplain he once was, he has become a savage and murderous warrior. In combat he was an unstoppable savage beast, that tore and ripped apart his enemies. While outside of combat, he would distant himself from his brother Mortifactors excepted for the survivor of Thanatos. After the event on Thanatos, these marines were never far from Chaplain side. Concerns of Chaplain(name pending) sanity and possible corruption soon reach the ears of Lord Magyar, the chapter master of the Mortifactors. The chapter master came to the conclusion, that Chaplain(name pending) couldn’t stay with the Mortifactors due to the possibility of Chaplain(name pending) influence could corrupt the minds of new recruits. But Magyar couldn’t just kill a warrior with a remarkable reputation such as Chaplain(name pending). So Magyar gave the Chaplain two choices: Be stripped of his rank and honor and exile on Posul for the rest of his life. Or Oversee the creation of a new chapter for the 23 founding. Chaplain(name pending) decide to take the honor of overseeing a new chapter. Chaplain(name pending) takes his survivors and to every shock return to Thanatos. This time when Chaplain(name pending) step foot on Thanatos, he doesn’t feel impending doom or fear this world but instead he finally felt at home.

Sector: 9 planets total- 1 Forge Worlds, 2 industrial worlds, 3 Civilised worlds, 1 agri World, 1 Penal World, 1 Death World(Carnivore Homeworld Thanatos)

(I need names for the planets)

Homeworld: The homeworld of the Carnivore is a nightmarish place for outsiders. The limit landmass has an endless surface of dense jungle, steamy swamps and bottomless chasms. The rest of the planet is covered with 75% of ocean which is far more dangerous then the murderous jungles. The homeworld denizens included numerous predatory reptilian species(basically dinosaurs) and other prehistoric life forms. The planet has small bands of human tribes, living in a primitive state. Most of the Tribes are scatter thought the world but many live near the coastal area or inside the ancient ruins in the jungle.

Fortress-Monastery: Need some names, would have like The Fang but Space Wolves have it.

Combat Doctrine: Assault, close range fire fight

Organization: standard. All first company and sergeants wear Brazen color helmets. Instead of changing their shoulder pad color to show their Company but instead use claw marks on knee pad or on the right shoulder pad. 10th company has no claw marks for there company.

Recruitment: The Carnivores train there scouts in a similar manner of other chapters but for one exception. There finale mission as a scout is to survive the deep abyss of there homeword. A squad of scouts are sent into the nightmarish pits to find a relic that the Battle Brother have hidden there. After finding this relic they call in evac and wait for pick up. The chapter will retrieve the survivors in about a few weeks to the most extreme a few months time. During this time the scouts have to survive the ambush of dangerous denizens and hungry scavenger of the pits. With there return to the fortress monastery, they finally become full space marine. (Basically something like that scene in the new King Kong where there attack by insects after they fell off the log but far worse.)

Beliefs: The Beliefs of the Carnivores start out very much alike to their parent chapter the Mortifactors. But with the addition of the recruits of Thatantos their beliefs system changed. The Carnivore see the Emperor as the Ultimate Predator who’s prey on the xeno, Traitors and the followers of chaos. They become even more fascinated with death then even there parent chapter, this is why becoming a dreadnought is of the highest honor. Thanatos in the Carnivore eyes is the perfect paradise and venerate the planet more then most other chapter. This is caused by the Natives beliefs that a true hunter has to be hunted first, and for mankind to truly become the ultimate Predators they must learns from there foes. This is why they have a strong dislike of the Codex Astartes, as they veiw it as too static and Unadaptable to the changing universe.

Geneseed Mutation: For unknown reason the Carnivore suffer the growth of large carnivorous teeth, alike many of the predator of Thanatos. They also suffer a state of increase hunger that have them go into a feeding frenzy. Even though this condition only last for a short time, the corruption of the geneseed makes the Carnivore future uncertain. The Carnivore themself views there mutation as gifts from there home world.

Major Engagement: Working on time line as we speak.

Battle Cry: I need some help here as well. I would like It to sound savage and tribal like. Any ideas?

Estimated strength: ~300 marines at the end of the 999.M41. I will explain later, let just say there some major invasion happening. B)

Modeling — I will be using a lot of bitz from the Lizardmen range from warhammer Fantasy, greenstuff scale robes, bone trophies, and space wolves bits, jungle ruins and bones for bases and terrain to give them the tribal and savage look.

Chapter Symbol: A Rex skull, like the one in my avatar.

Names of Charcters: I only have one and that Sergeant Riptile. I need names for planets and charcter. This is where I need the most help at.

Finally the color schemes

Stranded Marine

Vets/sergs

Why am I doing a Diy: For the longest time I couldn`t decide a chapter and I always came down between these six chapters.

Salamander— I like there color scheme, I am a fan of fire and reptiles aswell and there playing style fits me. But i can`t paint them and i would like to be a little more flexable and not take all melta and flamer weapons.

Space Wolves— I like there models but hate the fluff and color scheme.

Iron Hands— I have a thing for Dreads but hate there Color scheme and there belief that flesh is weak and machines are superior.

Flesh Tearers— I like there fluff(espacially there homeworld, It sound like heaven to me) but there colour scheme I can`t paint and don`t like the BA codex.

Space Shark/ charcarodons- I like there brutal fluff but color scheme is terrible.

mortifactors--- fluff is awesome but colorscheme is terrible.

So I decide that I will combine parts I like the best and add something to the mix, prehistoric life. For the longest time I loved dinosaurs and my room reflect a jungle because it has green paint, 10 different fake plants and my two lizards. So here the start of my first army, that I planned to finish.(I have too much stuff that unpaint)

Thank for reading(I know its long) and i hope you enjoy it some.

[Aegnor]

Hi, welcome to the Liber. Glad you've come up with an idea that you like - the first requirement for any army you're building should be that you think they're cool. Your idea is basically fine as is if you like that background for your army. If you want to fit it in with the "shared universe" that people try to create here in the Liber, there are a few things I'd suggest/question.

 

Small thing first - an entire world with just one sort of landscape, weather etc is a bit unrealistic - I know its been done in lots of sci-fi, but is there any reason why the planet can't have a more realistic set of areas - tropics, arctic, desert, ocean - even if the jungle predominates and covers the majority of the planet?

 

For me the big thing that stands out is why have your guys be Iron Hand successors if you don't like them. There are other chapters who are no-nonsense bad asses. For some reason, I reckon you'd like The Mortifactors. If it's because you like dreads, maybe there is an easier to explain reason you can come up with. Maybe your guys' fetish for dreadnoughts could come from some reason other than the Iron Hands descent. Otherwise, it's a bit "I reject everything about you, but would still like to take the cool thing you get as a result of your beliefs".

 

Dreadnought suits aren't common, so you'd need some reason as to why they had a lot, or alternatively used those they had a lot.

 

The clashing with the Mechanicus thing seems to get done a lot. I'm not sure what it adds to your story. Also, if the Ad Mech wanted to subdue to planet badly enough, they could have used Titans or similar rather than needing the carnivores to settle it for them.

 

Last point - it would make sense for one of the planets in system to be an agricultural world to feed the industrialized worlds. 12 inhabitable planets in one system seems a hell of a lot - 2 or 3 seems much more common. Maybe some could be moons or asteroids?

[NightrawenII]

Aegnor made some fine comments.

 

My thoughts:

The Forge World is not single planet, it is entire system and small empire on its own. There will like thousands of Skitarii, Ordinatus weapon-systems, Titan legion, fleet of warships and couple of Knight-Titans from thrall-worlds.

To attack one, you will need more forces than single warband of Sparky-Boyz.

 

The new Chapters are made from scratch, not from the lost Companies. If the 3rd Company crash landed there, it will rescued and returns to its respective Chapter.

You need a lot of unique stuff to start a new Chapter and lost companies simply don't possess such things.

 

The IH's fondness of Deads comes from the belief "Flesh is weak". If your Chapter doesn't believe in weakness of flesh, then the importance of Dread's is going to dimish as well.

 

The Iron Father or Chaplain of Company is going to disagree with the Captain. Mainly because he is in the charge of spiritual well-being of the Company, not Captain.

 

If the Admech wants an technology, it will get it. Why? Because they have a monopoly on technology (Travesty of BA codex doesn't count.), codified by the Emperor. None is going to disagree with Emperor.

[Uprising]

Aegnor--- Thank you for your quick response. First off your right about the planet terrain needing to be more diverse. I over look this small detail and only talk about main terrain, the jungle. I will change this soon. Secondly I am a huge fan of Dreadnoughts and would like to have a large presence in my fluff. This is why i pick Iron Hand geneseed because i couldn`t think up any other reason they would have them. Also thinking more about the clashing with the Mechanicus, i know believe your are correct and i now believe its a poor plot twist. Last point you are completely correct i am loving the mortifactors fluff. There fluff was very similiar to what is was aiming for my Carnivores. I was wondering is it possible to have some Mortifactors train my chapter and that would explain why there belief system is so much alike?

 

NightrawenII---thank you for gracing my DIY with your presence, you are one of the leading person of the IA and i thank you for your aid. First with the 3rd company crash landing on the planet(still need a name), I was thinking that after the purge of the system the surviving marines would stay and train the new chapter. I also think i will keep there dislike for machinery and mistrust of the Mechanicus and drop the iron hand geneseed, like i said in the top of my post. The chaplain point is also very true, if he still alive. :P

 

So after much thinking i think i will drop the clashing with the Mechanicus and iron hand geneseed, so i can focus on the Carnivores and there homeworld more. I now have a few question left.

1. Did you like anything about my first attempt?

2. I would like to add some element of the Mortifactors, can i have them train my chapter?

3. I need names badly, any ideas?

4. Should i edit my first post to refect my new idea or start another topic?

5. What do you think about this idea

Recruitment: The Carnivores train there scouts in a similar manner of other chapters but for one exception. There finale mission as a scout is to survive the deep chasms of there homeword. A squad of scouts are sent into the nightmarish pits to find a relic that the Battle Brother have hidden there. After finding this relic they call in evac and wait for pick up. The chapter will retrieve the survivors in about a few weeks to the most extreme a few years time. During this time the scouts have to survive wave after wave of dangerous denizens and scavenger of the pits. With there return they become full space marine. (Basically something like that scene in the new King Kong where there attack by insects after they fell off the log but far worse.)

 

Thanks for your time and help. Have a nice day or night.

[PorridgeMeister]

I can see where you've been inspired by the Flesh Tearers. A very interesting concept so far, if you need help with names try thumbing through rule books? I'm in the middle of writing my Chapter's fluff and that had some cool names. If you like, I would be happy to pool resources as it were and share some concepts.

 

Had a quick think of random names that I just thought up:

Characters: - Pertinax - Kyphax - Cimas - Markus

Homeworlds: - Slaughterhouse - Abyss - Bloodwell

[Aegnor]

If you're going for a dinosaur theme, you could do some trawling of wikipedia for Dino names - but be warned that's a very narrow path to tread before it becomes silly sounding. Calling one of your characters Othniel, after paleontologist Othniel Marsh, is a cool reference. Calling your Chapter Master Tyrannosaurus Rex, not so much. Still, it's a fertile field to do some looking for on-theme references that don't knock us out of suspension of disbelief.

[NightrawenII]

I also think i will keep there dislike for machinery and mistrust of the Mechanicus

The dislike of machinery is problematic, the Hounds of the Hunt are/were struggling with something similar. And the mistrust of Mechanicus, well these are guys who supply you with rare tech and train your technicians. So be wary.

 

1. Did you like anything about my first attempt?

The homeworld, belief, organisation and combat doctrine is fine.

 

2. I would like to add some element of the Mortifactors, can i have them train my chapter?

Yes, if the Chapter is of the Ultramarines gene-seed.

 

3. I need names badly, any ideas?

This is the area where we cannot help you much. Btw, the names aren't invented, they come to you.

 

4. Should i edit my first post to refect my new idea or start another topic?

Edit the first post, so anyone who opens this topic doesn't need to search through all posts.

 

5. What do you think about this idea

Recruitment: The Carnivores train there scouts in a similar manner of other chapters but for one exception. There finale mission as a scout is to survive the deep chasms of there homeword. A squad of scouts are sent into the nightmarish pits to find a relic that the Battle Brother have hidden there. After finding this relic they call in evac and wait for pick up. The chapter will retrieve the survivors in about a few weeks to the most extreme a few years time. During this time the scouts have to survive wave after wave of dangerous denizens and scavenger of the pits. With there return they become full space marine. (Basically something like that scene in the new King Kong where there attack by insects after they fell off the log but far worse.)

Good one.

Just the "few years" and "wave after wave" is too much, honestly.

[Uprising]

Ok ,first post is fix and i think the basic are fine now. What do you think better or worse?

NightrawenII--- Fix the Recruitment to be a little more believable. Also thanks again for your help.

PorridgeMeister---I am glad you like the concept. For the Character names I like them and will use a few but your homeworld sound to much like chaos.

Aegnor--- Good idea, I probably have over 50 college books on prehistoric life in my room. Chapter Master Tyrannosaurus Rex is a bit much but What about Chapter Master Turok?

Modeling wise, i painted so far 1 test tactical Marine and 1 dread. I also plan on have AOBR done in two weeks for a preview of the chapter to my mentor. My plan is to have this army be my senior project for next year. So how do I post pictures online, i need painting tips?

 

I thank everyone for your help and feel free to add any of your idea, i would like to hear them. Good Night

[NightrawenII]

Why was the Chapter formed?

- Is the defence of Forge World important to you or not? Because it's rather far fetched right now.

- The new Chapter is presumably trained by the cadre of ~20 marines. If this is the number of marines in 3rd Co., then it means that the Co. was practically annihilated.

 

System: 8 planets total- 3 Forge Worlds, 3 agrucultre worlds, 1 Penal World,1 Death World(Carnivore Homeworld)

- By "system", do you meant star system or couple of planets? In W40k "system" is usually refering to the star system and "sector" to the couple of planets (Well, sector is administrative unit of Imperium.)

 

Homeworld - Good, but check your spelling.

 

The Emperor is the ultimate predator and his enemies will be found and destroyed.

- I little bit heretical.

 

Oh, I forgot to link these guides ;) , Guide to DIYing and Octaguide 2.0.

[Aegnor]

The Emperor as ultimate predator isn't too heretical, depending on how literal they are in that belief and what they think his prey is. So long as they understand he's a dead dude on a golden throne who preys on the corrupt, the xenos and the daemonic, rather than thinking he's a giant velociraptor that chases stegosaurus and skeptical chaos theory mathematicians (actually, the chaos part is probably ok), they'll be just fine.

[Uprising]

Why was the Chapter formed?

- Is the defence of Forge World important to you or not? Because it's rather far fetched right now.

- The new Chapter is presumably trained by the cadre of ~20 marines. If this is the number of marines in 3rd Co., then it means that the Co. was practically annihilated.

I am only keeping the Forge World because without them why would the sector be worth protecting? If i could come up with a better reason, then i could drop the forge world bit. Also i will change it to that some marine decided to stay then rejoin the chapter. Also i know i need to work on the Beliefs, i kinda rush though that part.

Aegnor--- Loving the jurassic part reference and laugh for a good few mins. :P

Last bit, how do i post pics on this site? Thanks for your help everyone.

[NightrawenII]

I am only keeping the Forge World because without them why would the sector be worth protecting?

Because other Imperial planets are important too? :D The Hive and Agri Worlds are no less important than Forge World. And Forge World has more impervious defence than these for that matter.

The Chapters are in charge of forest, not trees.

[PorridgeMeister]

PorridgeMeister---I am glad you like the concept. For the Character names I like them and will use a few but your homeworld sound to much like chaos.

 

Fair dos. Some (loyalist) Chapters do have really weird names; like "the Slaughterhorn". ^_^

[Aegnor]

I've seen a nice joke bit on another site with a Chaos lord getting very confused that the Emperors Children, Alpha Legion and Iron Warriors are his allies while the Flesh Tearers, Blood Drinkers and Brazen Claws are on the Imperial side.

[Uprising]

It has been to long since my last update. I guess that what i get for being part of track, musicia, stage crew and having to get though school. Back on topic, i redid the Why was the Chapter formed part, reworked the belief part, add a geneseed mutations and gave the homeworld a name Thanatos. As always comments are welcome and hopefuly this DIY is getting better. Have a good night.

[Aegnor]

Ok, in terms of your sector, it would be extraordinary if there were three forge world there. Forge worlds aren't common. If you want an industrial world, that's a different thing and world be much more plausible.

 

The "stranded company becomes divergent chapter" idea doesn't grab me to be honest. Is that part of the story central to your vision for these guys, or a means to an end (having them set up on this planet with different focus to their parent?). If the latter, it might be easier if a chapter established the normal way (direction by the High Lords of Terra) found this planet and decided to settle there, and then maybe the follow up fleets were destroyed or similar.

 

Also, I think a few typos have crept in - I assume you want a "three prong" rather than "three pong" assault (although the alternative conjures some wonderful images!), and negotiations rather than negations. :(. Spellcheck is a wonderful thing, but I always find I need to go back and proofread stuff, having slept on it if possible, otherwise at least having got up and done something away from the computer for fifteen minutes at the very least, to catch typos where I've used the wrong word or got my singular/plurals wrong. You'll never catch that sort of stuff reading over stuff straightaway.

 

Keep at it, your guys are starting to take shape! :)

[Uprising]

Ok, in terms of your sector, it would be extraordinary if there were three forge world there. Forge worlds aren't common. If you want an industrial world, that's a different thing and world be much more plausible.

Fixed

The "stranded company becomes divergent chapter" idea doesn't grab me to be honest. Is that part of the story central to your vision for these guys, or a means to an end (having them set up on this planet with different focus to their parent?). If the latter, it might be easier if a chapter established the normal way (direction by the High Lords of Terra) found this planet and decided to settle there, and then maybe the follow up fleets were destroyed or similar.

I really like the stranded company changing after staying on Thanatos idea because it remind me of the Turok Game, that i really enjoy playing. I think i just need to smooth out the idea some. B)

Also, I think a few typos have crept in - I assume you want a "three prong" rather than "three pong" assault (although the alternative conjures some wonderful images!), and negotiations rather than negations. ;). Spellcheck is a wonderful thing, but I always find I need to go back and proofread stuff, having slept on it if possible, otherwise at least having got up and done something away from the computer for fifteen minutes at the very least, to catch typos where I've used the wrong word or got my singular/plurals wrong. You'll never catch that sort of stuff reading over stuff straightaway.

Thats what i get for typing 2 hours straight. I will try to avoid doing this in the future. :angry:

Keep at it, your guys are starting to take shape! :D

I do my best

[CantonWC]

Just noticed this:

 

This is why they have a strong dislike of the Codex Astartes, as they veiw it as too static and Unadaptable to the changing universe.

 

Will quote from the Octaguide:

 

Understand what the Codex is and isn't

The Codex is more than a book of organizational advice (though it is that). It's more than general tactical precepts. It's more than accounts of battles. It's more than careful analyses of enemy tactics. It is the life's work of countless Imperial soldiers, philosophers and military scholars. It has been improved for ten thousand years. Your chapter may believe that they know better than it, but it would be virtually impossible to actually create something better - after ten thousand years of development, most of what needs to be added to the codex are reactions to new phenomena.

 

The Codex can be followed in any number of different ways - any and all parts could be ignored, misinterpreted or considered outdated. The point is that the book is so massive and overwhelming that discarding it wholly would mean discarding almost the entirety of the Imperium's knowledge on warfare and starting afresh. Your chapter might well reject the organizational methods and standard tactics of the Codex, but they'd be unlikely to also throw out the treatises on how enemies fight and the various philosophical perspectives on warfare and combat. Sun Tzu's Art of War has remained relevant even thousands of years later, and the Codex was more complete, thorough and in-depth even when it was first compiled.

 

In short, have a clear idea of what the book is before you decide if you're going to get rid of it, and ensure that the reasons for doing so are justifiable.

 

Just saying. Your justification for why they dislike the Codex seems paper thin.

 

Will post more if I find something interesting.

 

CWC

[Aegnor]

I really like the stranded company changing after staying on Thanatos idea because it remind me of the Turok Game, that i really enjoy playing. I think i just need to smooth out the idea some. :rolleyes:

 

Yeah, I think the story needs a bit more of a smoother way to include both the stranded idea AND the founding of the chapter, because as it stands it doesn't really quite work with how chapters are established and by whom. I think one option to do so would be to introduce a bit of distance between the stranding and the founding.

 

I don't want to try and push my views on you, or write your thing for you, but maybe your Turok guy (you might have to be prepared to wear some nerd rage re: that name! :lol: ) and some of his troops were stranded on Thanatos and survived as you described, and were forever changed by their ordeal. However they were rescued and returned to the Mortifactors where Turok stood out as different from the rest, was never really at home, but at the same time quickly carved out a new reputation for savagery and kick-ass-ery (you may need to paraphrase this a bit!). When the Mortifactors were selected to oversee the creation of a new chapter, the Chapter Master recommended Turok lead them, due to his recognised great talents but also because the CM recognised Turok didn't fit with his original chapter anymore). To everyone's shock he took his new chapter and returned to Thanatos, making it their new home.

 

At the moment, I think combining their rescue with the decision to base a new chapter there is an awkward hurdle to jump over. Something along those lines might make it easier to do, and also lets you flesh out how Turok was changed by the experience a bit - a kind of Apocalypse Now, "the jungle wants me back" kinda vibe (or a Gaunt's Ghosts, "we survived Gereon, and the rest of you will never understand what it was like" vibe).

[Uprising]

I don't want to try and push my views on you, or write your thing for you, but maybe your Turok guy (you might have to be prepared to wear some nerd rage re: that name! :lol: ) and some of his troops were stranded on Thanatos and survived as you described, and were forever changed by their ordeal. However they were rescued and returned to the Mortifactors where Turok stood out as different from the rest, was never really at home, but at the same time quickly carved out a new reputation for savagery and kick-ass-ery (you may need to paraphrase this a bit!). When the Mortifactors were selected to oversee the creation of a new chapter, the Chapter Master recommended Turok lead them, due to his recognised great talents but also because the CM recognised Turok didn't fit with his original chapter anymore). To everyone's shock he took his new chapter and returned to Thanatos, making it their new home.

You sir are a genius and i love this idea. I will rewrite this after i get my essay for english done. Thank you so much.

[Uprising]

Sorry for the double post. :P

 

Ok i fix the "Why the chapter was made part", add to the "Recruitment" part and found a chapter Symbol, a Rex skull with it mouth opening facing foward.(Similiar to my new Avatar) What i still need to do is add "Battle Cry", "Major Engagements", "Fortress-Monastery", "Other Locations", "Relationship with the Natives", "Flora and Fluana of Thanatos", "return of the Chaos Warband" with them invading Thanatos twice and finally the "death of "Chaplian"(Name Pending)(hes going to become a Dreadnought) Is this too much for an IA or not enough? As always love to hear everyone opinion on my work and would also like some idea if you have any. Thanks for Reading.