DH vs Tau and IG

[Stormshadow]

Next week I will enter into a strange butt fun tournament. Me and five other contestants will over the following 10 weeks fight a battle for planetary domination. There will be some kind of world-map, and everyone will fight one battle a week in an attempt to conquer new territory. In total there will be ten battles (one each week), the first one at 1000pts and the last at 2000pts, every week the battle will increase with 100pts per player. My comfort zone is 1700 + pts but it will take 7 weeks to reach that amount of points per army. The reason I am posting this is that I need help with strategy against Tau (met once in a 1750pts battle) and Imperial Guard (never met). How can I as a DH player defeat gun line armies in 1000-1500 pts games. I am thinking about having two Rhinos with Flamers, Melta Bombs and Teleport Homers and spend the rest of the points on Deep-striking Terminators. My thought is that a Las Cannon, Melta Gun / Fusion Blaster, or a Rail Gun can ether kill one Land Raider ore one Terminator, and that it hurts less to loos a Terminator than a Land Raider…

 

What are your thoughts / strategies when playing armies like Tau and IG in low point games?

[number6]

The only way to beat really shooty armies is through target saturation. You have to have enough redundant working parts that you can absorb losses but still go on the offense effectively. This kind of army -- a MSU army -- is relatively difficult to pull off with the DH codex because its most potent units are incredibly expensive ... yet also incapable of doing more than the mono-task of killing infantry. And being able to kill infantry efficiently isn't that great of an asset when facing armies like Tau or IG. Their strength is not in their infantry!

 

So you need to bring either guns, lots of them, via inducted IG. Or you need to bring speed, lots of it, in order to reduce the amount of time your enemies have to get you.

 

Here are two example 1000 pt army lists exemplifying these principles to give you ideas.

 

+++++

 

"Speedy/Assaulty"

 

HQ

[245 pts] BC; 4 GKT retinue

 

Elite

[128 pts] Inquisitor, psycannon; Vet Guardsman, plasma; Rhino, extra armour, smoke launchers

 

Troop

[123 pts] 5 ISTs, 2x melta; Rhino, smoke launchers

[123 pts] 5 ISTs, 2x melta; Rhino, smoke launchers

[123 pts] 5 ISTs, 2x melta; Rhino, smoke launchers

 

Heavy Support

[258 pts] Land Raider Crusader, smoke launchers

 

Total: 1000 pts

 

+++++

 

"Shooty/Gunline"

 

HQ

[254 pts] BC, psycannon; 3 GKT retinue, psycannon

 

Elite

[98 pts] Inquisitor; Vet Guardsman, plasma; Rhino, extra armour, smoke

 

Troop

[70 pts] 5 ISTs, 2x melta

[70 pts] 5 ISTs, 2x melta

[105 pts] Platoon Command Squad, lascannon; Chimera, hull HF

[125 pts] Infantry Squad, lascannon; Chimera, hull HF

[125 pts] Infantry Squad, lascannon; Chimera, hull HF

[75 pts] Heavy Weapons Squad, 3x autocannon

[75 pts] Heavy Weapons Squad, 3x autocannon

 

Total: 997 pts

 

Give the Chimeras to the GKTs and ISTs, obviously. ;)

 

+++++

 

Both of these list templates scale up nicely to higher points levels, for what it's worth. Also, both of these army templates are balanced builds, meaning they're quality armies that can take on any opposition. They're not specially tuned to fight Tau or IG. They're just all-around "good".

[Stormshadow]

Thanks allot for the advice!

 

I am a bit restricted by the models I have, (not going to bye new ones ether until April :P ). I only have 2 Rhinos, 1 Land Raider (God Hammer), 2 Dreads, 20+ PAGK’s and 18 GKT’s (will have a lot of Psycannons for them very soon), 2x the standard 10 man Storm Trooper, 2x Psycannon Inquisitors and some of the more common henchmen.

 

I realise this is not the place to discus army lists so I will kip the discussion around strategy in a more general way.

 

Thinking about what you mentioned abut speed, how do you guys feel about 3x 4 man GKT squads with 2 Psycannons in each, there mission to encircle and close in? I’m thinking 3 x 6 S6 shoots would do a lot against side and rear armour. To risky? Deep- striking would allow me to approach with out being fired at and get me closer to the assault, but as I think about it, I realise that I may not want to assault, in other words move into plasma range… Can I soot out an IG army only using Psycannons?

 

Would 10-20 PAGK’s forming a Stormbolter wall accompanied by a few Psycannon Terminators be an alternative? Hugging to cover and drilling open Chimeras and Devil Fishes with Psycannons, killing what is inside with bolter rain. How many big blast weapons can one expect from IG and Tau on these point levels?

 

The two lists you posted were awesome by the way :).

[number6]

I am a bit restricted by the models I have, (not going to bye new ones ether until April :P ). I only have 2 Rhinos, 1 Land Raider (God Hammer), 2 Dreads, 20+ PAGK’s and 18 GKT’s (will have a lot of Psycannons for them very soon), 2x the standard 10 man Storm Trooper, 2x Psycannon Inquisitors and some of the more common henchmen.

To be honest, with only these tools at your disposal, I don't think you can get a decent army list built. Certainly not one capable of either catching Tau (or mech IG) or surviving the firepower both of those armies can -- and will -- be throwing downfield at you. :( The current DH codex is a pretty terrible army codex right now, and unless you build MSU along the lines I demonstrated above ... well, there's little you can do.

Thinking about what you mentioned abut speed, how do you guys feel about 3x 4 man GKT squads with 2 Psycannons in each, there mission to encircle and close in? I’m thinking 3 x 6 S6 shoots would do a lot against side and rear armour. To risky? Deep- striking would allow me to approach with out being fired at and get me closer to the assault, but as I think about it, I realise that I may not want to assault, in other words move into plasma range…

You're beginning to understand what I'm talking about, I see. ;) Neither Tau nor IG have any incentive to let you get close, and both of them have the ability to play keep away or just block you off with their own throw-away units. Additionally, both of them have the bodies and armour to avoid heavy losses from your limited firepower, and have the firepower to punch through the limited number of bodies you're capable of fielding.

Can I soot out an IG army only using Psycannons?

:huh: Not a chance.

Would 10-20 PAGK’s forming a Stormbolter wall accompanied by a few Psycannon Terminators be an alternative? Hugging to cover and drilling open Chimeras and Devil Fishes with Psycannons, killing what is inside with bolter rain. How many big blast weapons can one expect from IG and Tau on these point levels?

This was the standard way we could play our DH armies back in 4th edition 40K. But that tactical gameplan hasn't been viable since 5th edition came out 2 and half years ago. The ensuing, vastly improved codexes released in the wake of the current edition are built specifically to exploit the current rules set. And they do so quite efficiently. The DH codex is simply not capable of playing the same game except in very limited circumstances with highly specialized builds.

 

Good luck! You're going to need it!

[Whitefireinferno]

I can give you some Pointers on the Tau #1 You WILL NOT GET COVER SAVES #2 they will not likely be throwing many Blasts at you Not a great deal in the Book #3 Rhinos will either not live past their first round of shooting and then once they are gone It will be time for the Tau to Focus fire and remove units each turn either by Negating your saves OR buckets of Dice.