The Paladin Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 From what I've seen from Katie Drake, psybolt ammo adds +1 to STR. No mention about ignoring invuls so don't know how this equates with the psyflame. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221828-grey-knight-rumors-thread/page/26/#findComment-2668224 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmande Posted February 22, 2011 Author Share Posted February 22, 2011 Psyflame supposedly gives the weapon Rending. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221828-grey-knight-rumors-thread/page/26/#findComment-2668248 Share on other sites More sharing options...
raverrn Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 You know... I have my doubts about the lack of pistol SBs... Think about it. Normal termies cost the same as GK termies, but they come equipped with S8 power weapons and storm bolters. The storm bolters cancel each other out, but there is a large gap in killing potential between them. Even factoring in a nemesis daemon hammer and Hammer Hand, there is still a gap. The extra attack provided by this could potentially make up for the Strength gap and the lack of storm shields. An extra attack for the termies makes sense. Of course i am speaking as someone who wanted my GKSSs to wipe out ten man marine units in a single bound! <_< (and they should based on fluff!) Remember that basic GK termies will have a 4++, S5, I4, the Aegis, and can hold objectives. If anything the Marine terminators are being shorted. TH/SS Termies are brutally undercosted and shouldn't enter the equation. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221828-grey-knight-rumors-thread/page/26/#findComment-2668265 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slind Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Hmmm... well the loss of SB's counting as pistols, isn't so hard when you start crunching the numbers. Pitted against another MEQ, we loose 0,03 kills per model when defending compared to the old knight, but gain 0,30 kills on the charge. Actually, you will find, that a full squad of GKSS on the charge, who has fired their bolters before charging and Hammerhand goes off, will on average take down EXACTLY 10 meqs.... coinsidence?? I don't think so! ... oh yes, and that is at a 20% cost reduction, compared to previously... now use those 5 points saved to boost their ini to 5, and those 10 meqs won't even get a chance to swing back. Now add all the additional boosting from support units (libbys etc) that this unit offers, It does not look all too shavy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221828-grey-knight-rumors-thread/page/26/#findComment-2668282 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justcar Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 From what I've seen from Katie Drake, psybolt ammo adds +1 to STR. No mention about ignoring invuls so don't know how this equates with the psyflame. I would prefer +1 str. actually, it is more widely applicable! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221828-grey-knight-rumors-thread/page/26/#findComment-2668310 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Paladin Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 From what I've seen from Katie Drake, psybolt ammo adds +1 to STR. No mention about ignoring invuls so don't know how this equates with the psyflame. I would prefer +1 str. actually, it is more widely applicable! The +1 STR for the psybolt is really cool. I think that's why it is a 20 pt upgrade for the LRC. Can you imagine 12 twin-linked S5 shots from the hurricane bolters?!? Woo hoo! The down side is, I used to be able to fire all weapons after moving 6" (since HB were defensive weapons). With psybolt ammo, I guess we won't be able to. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221828-grey-knight-rumors-thread/page/26/#findComment-2668346 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vindicatus Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Uhm, you still CAN fire your HB's. Land Raider Crusaders have a clause that allows them to ALWAYS be able to fire their Hurricane Bolters, regardless of any pre-existing condition. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221828-grey-knight-rumors-thread/page/26/#findComment-2668353 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Paladin Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Uhm, you still CAN fire your HB's. Land Raider Crusaders have a clause that allows them to ALWAYS be able to fire their Hurricane Bolters, regardless of any pre-existing condition. In our current dex yes. I have a feeling that's going away w/ our new dex though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221828-grey-knight-rumors-thread/page/26/#findComment-2668356 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vindicatus Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Why would they give it to us and EVERY OTHER marine chapter with access to the Cruader, and then take it away? Did we just FORGET how to pull the trigger when we stop moving? Unless they ret-con the entire lot of it, I highly doubt they're going to completely s***-can the one thing that made that vehicle worthwhile, and unilaterally force players to simply field Stormraven's in its stead. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221828-grey-knight-rumors-thread/page/26/#findComment-2668361 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Ignis Domus Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Actually, I think you're the only codex left with that rule. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221828-grey-knight-rumors-thread/page/26/#findComment-2668364 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justcar Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Power of the machine spirit? That should do it right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221828-grey-knight-rumors-thread/page/26/#findComment-2668381 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Ignis Domus Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 But that doesn't only apply to the Hurricane Bolters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221828-grey-knight-rumors-thread/page/26/#findComment-2668382 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Paladin Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Actually, I think you're the only codex left with that rule. ;) I believe that's correct. I just checked the SM codex and the C: Black Templars codex and none of their LRC's have any special rules on the HB. Not sure about the BA codex though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221828-grey-knight-rumors-thread/page/26/#findComment-2668385 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Paladin Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Power of the machine spirit? That should do it right? Yes it would. The only difference is, after moving 6", you'll just have to choose which 2 weapons you're going to fire (assuming you have psybolt ammo and your HB's are S5). With normal HB's, I can move a LRC 6", fire both MM and AC, and still fire the HB's because they're considered defensive weapons ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221828-grey-knight-rumors-thread/page/26/#findComment-2668386 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Heh, I had a suspicion that's how it would turn out... But I bet the new plastic PAGK mini's come with Swords by default. ;) I also noticed in the leak that Dreadnoughts couldn't upgrade their Storm Bolters to Incinerators, so I hope that got fixed. Vehicles can purchase Psyflame ammunition. Which I'm assuming will make Flamers ignore Invulnerable Saves (much like I assume Psybolt's will make Bolt guns and Psycannons ignore Invulnerable saves), so that's probably wht the don't get Incinerators. And why the LRR has normal 'Flamestorm' cannons, and not the FW super Incinerator Flamestorms. But, the Dreadnought in the leak didn't have access to an upgrade to Heavy Flamer either, so they don't even have a weapon to shoot their Psyflame ammunition from! V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221828-grey-knight-rumors-thread/page/26/#findComment-2668389 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedemptionNL Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 But, the Dreadnought in the leak didn't have access to an upgrade to Heavy Flamer either, so they don't even have a weapon to shoot their Psyflame ammunition from! V Besides the twin-linked heavy flamer you can replace your multi-melta with you mean? ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221828-grey-knight-rumors-thread/page/26/#findComment-2668391 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 But, the Dreadnought in the leak didn't have access to an upgrade to Heavy Flamer either, so they don't even have a weapon to shoot their Psyflame ammunition from! V Besides the twin-linked heavy flamer you can replace your multi-melta with you mean? :P Yes, besides that. Every other Dreadnought in the Imperium can upgrade their DCCW built in Storm Bolters to a Heavy Flamer. In our current codex, Grey Knights Dreadnoughts could upgrade their Storm Bolter to an Incenerator. In the leaked codex, neither option was available. I would upgrade the Storm Bolter in a heartbeat, but there is no way I'd put a twin-linked Heavy Flamer on as the primary weapon over a Multi-Melta, Assault Cannon, or TL Lascannon. As I said in the very first post on this issue, I sure hope someone noticed this and fixed it (especially since both of my Forgeworld Dreads have Incinerators). Edit: On a positive note, 20 points to upgrade 10 Storm Bolters in a unit to S5 is a pretty great deal, even if we don't get storm Bolters as Pistols, which was too good to be true at 20 points per Strike Squad member. V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221828-grey-knight-rumors-thread/page/26/#findComment-2668439 Share on other sites More sharing options...
synack Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Remember that basic GK termies will have a 4++, S5, I4, the Aegis, and can hold objectives. If anything the Marine terminators are being shorted. TH/SS Termies are brutally undercosted and shouldn't enter the equation. I don't know where this 4++ rumour comes from, but it's been proven time and time again, that termies and paladins come with the normal terminator armour saves, which is 2+/5++. I also don't know how you come to the fact that they come with S5. Yes you can boost it to S5 with a psycic power, but that doesn't mean they come with it base. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221828-grey-knight-rumors-thread/page/26/#findComment-2668603 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DinoDoc Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Does anyone know if we have a chance of having SC models in Wave 1? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221828-grey-knight-rumors-thread/page/26/#findComment-2668610 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Remember that basic GK termies will have a 4++, S5, I4, the Aegis, and can hold objectives. If anything the Marine terminators are being shorted. TH/SS Termies are brutally undercosted and shouldn't enter the equation. I don't know where this 4++ rumour comes from, but it's been proven time and time again, that termies and paladins come with the normal terminator armour saves, which is 2+/5++. They come with Nemesis Force Swords base, which means they'll have 4++ in close combat and 5++ otherwise, as a standard, and yes, the Strength 5 is via a psychic power. Raverrn's point stands: you are getting a lot for your 40 point investment in a GKT. V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221828-grey-knight-rumors-thread/page/26/#findComment-2668622 Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyking Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Remember that basic GK termies will have a 4++, S5, I4, the Aegis, and can hold objectives. If anything the Marine terminators are being shorted. TH/SS Termies are brutally undercosted and shouldn't enter the equation. I don't know where this 4++ rumour comes from, but it's been proven time and time again, that termies and paladins come with the normal terminator armour saves, which is 2+/5++. I also don't know how you come to the fact that they come with S5. Yes you can boost it to S5 with a psycic power, but that doesn't mean they come with it base. Nemesis Force Swords improve the invulnerable save of the model by 1 in cc. So a GKT with a sword has a 4++ in CC. All GK non vehicle units have Hammerhand, which in a SMT vs GKT showdown, SM terminators dont have any psi cancellation, so, given their Ld, theres a 5 out of 6 chance that the GKT will get +1s, with a tiny chance the Justicars head explodes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221828-grey-knight-rumors-thread/page/26/#findComment-2668624 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sothalor Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Does anyone know if we have a chance of having SC models in Wave 1? That seems extremely likely based on my observation of their recent releases. All the first waves had included one or more special characters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221828-grey-knight-rumors-thread/page/26/#findComment-2668646 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DinoDoc Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I'm hoping for Draigo and/or Mordrak models. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221828-grey-knight-rumors-thread/page/26/#findComment-2668652 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERO Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Remember that basic GK termies will have a 4++, S5, I4, the Aegis, and can hold objectives. 4++? Where? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221828-grey-knight-rumors-thread/page/26/#findComment-2668653 Share on other sites More sharing options...
synack Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Remember that basic GK termies will have a 4++, S5, I4, the Aegis, and can hold objectives. 4++? Where? This is incorrect and a very old rumour that people are clinging too in some vain hope that everyone that has said they will get normal 5++ is wrong. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/221828-grey-knight-rumors-thread/page/26/#findComment-2668663 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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