ETP Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Remember that basic GK termies will have a 4++, S5, I4, the Aegis, and can hold objectives. 4++? Where? This is incorrect and a very old rumour that people are clinging too in some vain hope that everyone that has said they will get normal 5++ is wrong. Apologies for the confusion, what I had meant in that was the 4++ in close combat due to the swords being standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resv Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I agree with Vindicatus that the Gray Knights are NOT ULTRAMARINES! No matter how you slice it, that is the God-Emperor's honest truth. HOWEVER! I don't think that really changes the argument that the + to Terminators Invulnerable save is just for CC. When I first heard that Storm Shields were going to be few and far between in the new codex I was actually kinda excited about it, I'm tired of the same old SS/TH Terminators. They are kinda like iPods, almost everyone has one tucked away some times they work and some times they don't. SS/TH Terminators really only appear in one way in most lists I have seen, inside a Land Raider, same as 80% of C:SM armies that take them. Enter in the Gray Knights with their lack of Storm Shields and Warding Staves (<-This is the plural of Staff) and the ability to mix and match just about every model in a unit to take on a different purpose. I will say here and now that the 2++ save is STUPID, just a DUMB IDEA. I would have kept them at the same price and changed the save to a 3++. "But Resv," I hear you ask, "doesn't that just make Warding Staves the exact same as Storm Shields?" Yeah sorta! However they replace the Nemesis Sword rather than your bolter, they are a defensive weapon that is going to hit at S4 and I4 no matter what. Storm Shields still allow the user to take a main hand weapon like a Thunder Hammer which I think we all agree are awesome and a might bit better than a S4 Power Weapon (Force Weapon and Hammer Hand aside). The Terminator or Paladin equipped with one of these is much more of a guardian for his unit, instead of attacking with a higher initiative or greater strength they take the roll of defender. That's why I thought Warding Staves were a cool idea, and why you would never really want to outfit an entire unit with them because while that unit could live through almost anything they really wouldn't hit that hard for the price. With the rumor that the added save is in CC only and according to BoK you can only take one per unit anyway makes them an expensive upgrade when any NFW gives a +1 anyway you might as well take one of the other options for a quarter of the price. Again I say go with Purifiers as your go to assault unit, even with out a 2+ and 5++ save they are amazingly points efficient, get 3 attacks on the charge and get the delightful Cleansing Flame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Been menaing to post this for a while. Ages ago, I remembered a furor about GKs gettign something to up the AV of thier vehicles. Maybe they could, maybe they couldn't, maybe it's aPsychic power. Do you think that's what the 'Truesilver Armour' option is? Maybe it's a +1 to a Vechiles AV. Or only to Front Armour or some such. Might be why we don't get any AV13 (Ironclad/Furioso) Dreadnought Varient. I'm sceptical though, as our Land Raiders all have access to it, and so far nothing's gone over AV14... It's not immunity to Melta, as the SR can purchase it. Maybe it's something totally different. :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Paladin Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Been menaing to post this for a while. Ages ago, I remembered a furor about GKs gettign something to up the AV of thier vehicles. Maybe they could, maybe they couldn't, maybe it's aPsychic power. Do you think that's what the 'Truesilver Armour' option is? Maybe it's a +1 to a Vechiles AV. Or only to Front Armour or some such. Might be why we don't get any AV13 (Ironclad/Furioso) Dreadnought Varient. I'm sceptical though, as our Land Raiders all have access to it, and so far nothing's gone over AV14... It's not immunity to Melta, as the SR can purchase it. Maybe it's something totally different. :/ I have a feeling its something that replaced our Sacred Hull upgrade. Fluff-wise it says "poisonous to daemons" so it could be that demons will have to roll for difficult terrain to assault? maybe dangerous test? I was really hoping we can have something similar to the BT's blessed hull: resistance to lance weapons :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreaterDragon Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Totally guessing here but I reckon it's gonna be something like monstrous creatures that are daemons don't get an extra d6 for penetration or something like that. Truesilver sounds like a material that hurts demons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Paladin Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Totally guessing here but I reckon it's gonna be something like monstrous creatures that are daemons don't get an extra d6 for penetration or something like that. Truesilver sounds like a material that hurts demons. That will actually be VERY cool if it turns out to be so. Definitely gives our vehicles and dreads more survivality vs. demonic MC"s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulReaver296 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 the only other thing i can think of is it is anti- melta/lance like the black templar upgrade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 It would be useless for the SR if it was either Anti-Melta or Anti-Lance. Fluff-wise it says "poisonous to daemons" Ohhh! Where did you get that from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Paladin Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 It would be useless for the SR if it was either Anti-Melta or Anti-Lance. Fluff-wise it says "poisonous to daemons" Ohhh! Where did you get that from? Pretty sure I read it in the Land Raider background in the "leaked" codex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERO Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 the only other thing i can think of is it is anti- melta/lance like the black templar upgrade Yeah... keep dreaming. That would be stupid amazing good. Pretty sure I read it in the Land Raider background in the "leaked" codex. Yep, I concur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boreas Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I'm really surprised at that hate... First, there was hate because the GKs were too much like U-marines. Now, there's hate because GKs are not enough like u-marines? Ok, so we get a 4++ only in CC. That sucks when you get pie-plated or plasmaed to death. But otherwise? Let's bring some more mathammer fun: -5 GKT (NFS) vs 5 Ass-term (3 TH&SS+2 TLC). NO hammerhand! GKT assault: 10 SB shots, 6.6 hits, 3.3 wounds, 0.55 dead. GKT attack 15 times, hit 7.5 times, wound 3.75 times (all on TH&SS): 1.25 wounds. Total: 1.8 wounds (1 TLC and 1 TH&SS are taken away). 2 TLC ass-term attack: 6 attacks, 3 hits, 2.25 wounds, 1.1 wound not saved. 2 TH&SS attack: 4 attacks, 2 hits, 1.7 wounds, 0.8 wounds not saved. Total: 1.9 wounds (2 GKT are taken away). TIE -5 GKT (NFS) vs 5 Ass-term (3 TH&SS+2 TLC). WITH hammerhand! GKT assault: 10 SB shots, 6.6 hits, 3.3 wounds, 0.55 dead. GKT attack 15 times, hit 7.5 times, wound 5 times (3 on TH&SS, 2 on TLC): 2.33 wounds. Total: 2.9 wounds (2 TLC and 1 TH&SS are taken away). 2 TLC ass-term attack: 6 attacks, 3 hits, 2.25 wounds, 1.1 wound not saved. 2 TH&SS attack: 4 attacks, 2 hits, 1.7 wounds, 0.8 wounds not saved. Total: 1.9 wounds (2 GKT are taken away). GKT win by one -Ass-term assault: 2 TLC attacks 8 times, hit 4 times, wound 3 times, 1.5 not saved. GKT attack 10 times, hit 5 times, wound 2.5 times, 0.8 not saved (all on TH&SS). TH&SS attack 9 times, hit 4.5 times, wound 3.75 times, 1.9 not saved. GKT get their asses kicked! Moral of the story? Don't get assaulted by a deathstar unit! But that's the point of the game anyways, no? But, I think, here's where the termies get better: falchions! -5 GKT (2 NFS, 3 falchions) vs 5 Ass-term (3 TH&SS+2 TLC). WITH hammerhand! GKT assault: 10 SB shots, 6.6 hits, 3.3 wounds, 0.55 dead. GKT w/falchions attack 12 times, hit 6 times, wound 5 times (3 on TH&SS, 1.5 on TLC). GKT w/swords attack 6 times, hit 3 times, wound 2 times. 7 wounds are put: 4 on TH&SS 3 on TLC: Total: 3.9 wounds, including shooting (2 TLC and 2 TH&SS are taken away). 2 TLC ass-term attack: 6 attacks, 3 hits, 2.25 wounds (all on NFS), 1.1 wound not saved. 1 TH&SS attack: 2 attacks, 1 hits, .9 wounds, 0..45 wounds not saved (on surviving NFS). Total: 1.55 wounds (2 GKT are taken away). Ass-term. get their asses kicked! Ok, that's all big and boring mathammer. In "real 40k life", units don't fight in a void and things can (and will) go wrong, etc, etc and so on and so forth. Plus I probably screwed a few things here and there (like I assumed the shooting wound would be taken off the TH&SS models, so TLC always got their full attacks). But the point is this: our termies are scoring units that can go toe-to-toe with one of the best unit in WH40k while still keeping a different flavor. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Fox Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Keep in mind too, that this mathhammering is demonstrating a superior shooting capability while maintaining melee capability. The assault terminators do not have a shooting capability whatsoever. The results would begin to skew in our favor with upgraded weaponry (Psycannons anyone? Or whatever the new psilencer does assuming it truly exists) or if we are able to "kite" the opponent with creative maneuvering and the long range of the stormbolters. Addititionally if there is a wargear option to up the strength of the stormbolters that puts more wounds in our favor as well. I for one am glad we don't have the same options as normal terminators, and would be sad if we did. Grey Knights and the Inquisition do NOT fight in a traditional battlefield manner like other Marines or the Imperial Guard. We've always needed terrain, cunning, and actual thought. When we use those things we have devious tricks and maneuvers due to our wonky unit options, and I'm willing to bet this trend will continue into the new book. Only now we have more and better toys ;) And really, how many people were using Storm Shields in our last book when they were against one close combat opponent a round and didn't help against shooting? Yeah, that's what I thought :tu: We lived then, we'll live now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Paladin Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Just the fact that GKT's can shoot prior to assault, possibly have 4++ saves AND are SCORING already won me over :tu: Everything else (S5 SB shots, rending p-cannons, I5, etc.) is gravy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justcar Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Keep in mind too, that this mathhammering is demonstrating a superior shooting capability while maintaining melee capability. The assault terminators do not have a shooting capability whatsoever. The results would begin to skew in our favor with upgraded weaponry (Psycannons anyone? Or whatever the new psilencer does assuming it truly exists) or if we are able to "kite" the opponent with creative maneuvering and the long range of the stormbolters. Addititionally if there is a wargear option to up the strength of the stormbolters that puts more wounds in our favor as well. I for one am glad we don't have the same options as normal terminators, and would be sad if we did. Grey Knights and the Inquisition do NOT fight in a traditional battlefield manner like other Marines or the Imperial Guard. We've always needed terrain, cunning, and actual thought. When we use those things we have devious tricks and maneuvers due to our wonky unit options, and I'm willing to bet this trend will continue into the new book. Only now we have more and better toys ;) And really, how many people were using Storm Shields in our last book when they were against one close combat opponent a round and didn't help against shooting? Yeah, that's what I thought :) We lived then, we'll live now. You, sir have managed to calm my fury (somewhat)! ;) Though, we still need to watch out for lascannons and plasma cannons shooting us to bits! (With which an overall inv. save modifier would help) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulReaver296 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I know why we don't get the option for SS, but I still would love to have THIS, but a GKT. Not only effective on the table, but would be an awesome mini as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Seconded! :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmande Posted February 23, 2011 Author Share Posted February 23, 2011 Then play Black Templars. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulReaver296 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Too late, I already do. I just want to share the epicness between the two. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmande Posted February 23, 2011 Author Share Posted February 23, 2011 After what a little bird told me about Draigo, I could use significantly less 'epic' in this codex. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Paladin Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 After what a little bird told me about Draigo, I could use significantly less 'epic' in this codex. :D You mean in addition to the 2 page "epicness" in the leaked codex? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERO Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Here's my addition to the rumor thread: I have a very reliable source telling me that PAGK will be in 5-man boxes like BA's DC and SG. Sad news brothers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERO Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 But in brighter news, I have the fun solution vs. Mech IG. You won't like it, but it'll work: 3x Purgation squads with 6x dudes each with Psycannons, that's 200 points per squad. Take Razorbacks with TLLCs, 75 points each. Take Librarian, cheap, with The Shrouding Take a Techmarine, Conversion Beamer Maybe take a Vindicator to act as flavoring Deploy in cover, activate Shrouding every round, with Bolster Defenses. Have fun outshooting IG with 2++ cover saves and 12x4 Psycannon shots going out per round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resv Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 That was pretty much guaranteed wasn't it? I say that just judging from how the new BA figures were released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justcar Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 After what a little bird told me about Draigo, I could use significantly less 'epic' in this codex. I like the idea that Draigo eats greater daemons for breakfast, but it is a bit much! After reading the fluff entry for him, I was physically exhausted! Still, IMO, it is better to have OTT fluff than underwhelming fluff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vhalyar Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 But in brighter news, I have the fun solution vs. Mech IG. You won't like it, but it'll work: 3x Purgation squads with 6x dudes each with Psycannons, that's 200 points per squad. Take Razorbacks with TLLCs, 75 points each. Take Librarian, cheap, with The Shrouding Take a Techmarine, Conversion Beamer Maybe take a Vindicator to act as flavoring Deploy in cover, activate Shrouding every round, with Bolster Defenses. Have fun outshooting IG with 2++ cover saves and 12x4 Psycannon shots going out per round. Techmarine with conversion beamer joined to a Purgation squad is a combo that I'm sure will be quite amusing. I've been planning my conversion for a while now, should be a fun little project. For anyone worried about competitive pure GK... well, the typical rhino/razor spam won't have much to envy from the other SM codices, so there will be that at least for better or for worse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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