Grey Knight Rumors Thread

[RedemptionNL]

I'm just wondering how the psychic powers will work with SSGK when you split them into combat squads. Will both mini-squads get to use the power separately, or when one uses it will both count as used and get the benefits (HH for example).

If the latter then this could lead to some crazy shooting with storm bolters on Purgations squads (Astral Aim) :P .

If you split them into combat squads, they become two different units, so each can cast his own psychic power. But keep in mind, with most of the squad psychic powers you'd get the same benefit if you cast it once on a 10 man squad or twice on two 5 man squads, you'd just have more than twice the chance two fail at least one, as the squad without the justicar has 1 less Leadership for the Psychic test. Cleansing Flame seems to be the only squad power that gets a real power upgrade from combat squadding, as you can essentially cast it twice as much when you reach close combat.

 

something i just noticed in the leaked pdf

gk termies have access to both frag and krak grenades

this may just be my ignorance showing, but isn't this an anomaly?

i can't think of other termies off the top of my head with this

Aye, this seems to be a first afaik. But normal termies are usually also less dependant on initiative with power fists and thunderhammers and such, so I can see why the addition was made to the GK termies.

 

Yes there's no way at all Crowe not being an IC in the playtest pdf with written notes in the margins that denoted it as a work in progress was surely without a mistake. :D

 

Seriously guys, he'll be an IC.

Well, he doesn't need to be one to be effective at least. And the non-IC special character seems to be a trend in the latest codexes (Sanguinor, Mephiston, Death Company Tycho, Kheradruakh), where the same number of people sweared up and down the missing IC status on some of them had to be a mistake too. Not to mention his rules clearly speak of models attacking him, not his unit or something, so it doesn't seem to be a simple rule oversight in the draft. I wouldn't be suprised if he remains IC-less in the final codex.

 

Without being an IC he still can't join a unit and ride with them in a transport, regardless of what the transport capacity is.

It's not a dedicated transport. If Crowe can't ride with a squad in a Stormraven, neither can a dreadnought.

The Stormraven's entry specifically notes it can carry one dreadnought and one squad. If Crowe can't join another unit, he counts as a seperate squad. So no, unless Crowe gains IC in the final codex, he can't join another unit in a transport, unless that transport can carry multiple squads, which no non-apocalypse transport can do afaik. And whether or not it's a dedicated transport has absolutely nothing to do with it, btw.

[grimz]

How does Cleansing Flame work against models with FNP? Like Death Company for instance?

[Gentlemanloser]

It doesn't ignore Armour saves, so you owuld get FNP versus it.

[Oiad]

Well, he doesn't need to be one to be effective at least. And the non-IC special character seems to be a trend in the latest codexes (Sanguinor, Mephiston, Death Company Tycho, Kheradruakh), where the same number of people sweared up and down the missing IC status on some of them had to be a mistake too. Not to mention his rules clearly speak of models attacking him, not his unit or something, so it doesn't seem to be a simple rule oversight in the draft. I wouldn't be surprised if he remains IC-less in the final codex.

Notice something about 3/4 of those examples? They have access to abilities that allow them to cleave across the board quickly. Tycho is the odd one out and unsurprisingly is the SC BA players are least likely to play / most likely to grumble about from what I've seen. But even he gets Fleet to help him, Crowe doesn't. People say he'll be great in so-and-so situation but without some kind of mobility it's gonna be tricky to say the least. Better opponents will run circles around him or take care of him from afar before he gets a chance. Of course, you can rig him up with some extra transport at additional prices but that shouldn't need to be a necessity. As I said before, if he's to stay an non-IC give Crowe a SS teleport pack and you'll see half of the moaning dissipate.

 

EDIT - On a different note, how the hell does the Blade on Antwyr affect enemies if the Grey Knights placed it in Crowe's possession to pacify it? If it's still effective, surely it would be best locking him in a fort with it rather than letting him loose.

[River Black]

I dont know if this has been brought up yet (not going to sift through 33 pages) but i just made a list that had 18 Lazorbacks with a scoring unit inside of each one in under 2000 points. Does this seems stupid to anyone else besides me? Im hoping that the henchmen part is goingto be reworked extensivly.

Also did anyone else notice that the henchmen section is completely misplaced or pulled from a diffrent source? If I recall the page number at the bottom is only like page 2 or 3 compared to the high double digits the rest of the army list is in.

[Brovius]

@bertboxer

There is mention of the Grey Knights being able to use grenades in the leaked PDF fluff due to their SBs being wrist-mounted.

[hmk17]

Well, he doesn't need to be one to be effective at least. And the non-IC special character seems to be a trend in the latest codexes (Sanguinor, Mephiston, Death Company Tycho, Kheradruakh), where the same number of people sweared up and down the missing IC status on some of them had to be a mistake too. Not to mention his rules clearly speak of models attacking him, not his unit or something, so it doesn't seem to be a simple rule oversight in the draft. I wouldn't be surprised if he remains IC-less in the final codex.

Notice something about 3/4 of those examples? They have access to abilities that allow them to cleave across the board quickly. Tycho is the odd one out and unsurprisingly is the SC BA players are least likely to play / most likely to grumble about from what I've seen. But even he gets Fleet to help him, Crowe doesn't. People say he'll be great in so-and-so situation but without some kind of mobility it's gonna be tricky to say the least. Better opponents will run circles around him or take care of him from afar before he gets a chance. Of course, you can rig him up with some extra transport at additional prices but that shouldn't need to be a necessity. As I said before, if he's to stay an non-IC give Crowe a SS teleport pack and you'll see half of the moaning dissipate.

 

EDIT - On a different note, how the hell does the Blade on Antwyr affect enemies if the Grey Knights placed it in Crowe's possession to pacify it? If it's still effective, surely it would be best locking him in a fort with it rather than letting him loose.

 

The entry mentions that the sword is one of the most powerful daemon blades and draws heretics and daemons to it like flies. So if you saw this sword within Assault range and heard its siren's call, you would heedlessly rush toward the Grey Knight holding it.

 

While they could bury it, like Sigmar buried Nagash's crown, the result would be the same. It would attract the very stuff they are hiding it from and try to corrupt all of those around it. Giving the sword to one of the strongest and most pure beings in the galaxy, who kills the seekers with the very sword, was not a bad idea. Only bad thing is the daemon might get stronger for each heretic Crowe kills.

 

 

 

@bertboxer

There is mention of the Grey Knights being able to use grenades in the leaked PDF fluff due to their SBs being wrist-mounted.

 

All the guys in Artificer and Power Armor are listed with Frag, Krak, and Psych-out grenades (Psychs give units against GK's -1 morale)

As mentioned above in another post, a couple of Terminator entries also list grenades. But remember the PDF was from play testing and is not final.

[Inache]

If GKT's do get grenades I hope they include grenade launcher bits to stick to the side of SB, or mini-typhoon shoulder mounted equivalents

[Marmande]

Well, he doesn't need to be one to be effective at least. And the non-IC special character seems to be a trend in the latest codexes (Sanguinor, Mephiston, Death Company Tycho, Kheradruakh), where the same number of people sweared up and down the missing IC status on some of them had to be a mistake too. Not to mention his rules clearly speak of models attacking him, not his unit or something, so it doesn't seem to be a simple rule oversight in the draft. I wouldn't be surprised if he remains IC-less in the final codex.

Notice something about 3/4 of those examples? They have access to abilities that allow them to cleave across the board quickly. Tycho is the odd one out and unsurprisingly is the SC BA players are least likely to play / most likely to grumble about from what I've seen. But even he gets Fleet to help him, Crowe doesn't. People say he'll be great in so-and-so situation but without some kind of mobility it's gonna be tricky to say the least. Better opponents will run circles around him or take care of him from afar before he gets a chance. Of course, you can rig him up with some extra transport at additional prices but that shouldn't need to be a necessity. As I said before, if he's to stay an non-IC give Crowe a SS teleport pack and you'll see half of the moaning dissipate.

 

You wrote all this and still don't believe he'll be made an IC? :lol:

[Resv]

Notice something about 3/4 of those examples? They have access to abilities that allow them to cleave across the board quickly. Tycho is the odd one out and unsurprisingly is the SC BA players are least likely to play / most likely to grumble about from what I've seen. But even he gets Fleet to help him, Crowe doesn't. People say he'll be great in so-and-so situation but without some kind of mobility it's gonna be tricky to say the least. Better opponents will run circles around him or take care of him from afar before he gets a chance. Of course, you can rig him up with some extra transport at additional prices but that shouldn't need to be a necessity. As I said before, if he's to stay an non-IC give Crowe a SS teleport pack and you'll see half of the moaning dissipate.

 

Notice something about 3/4 of those same examples? They can get across the board quickly which you mentioned so that isn't it. Three out of the 4 are BA special characters? Nah, I think we all knew that. What could it be? Oh yeah, 3/4ths of them are EXPENSIVE. Tycho still costs more than Crowe and frankly does nothing to benefit his army.

 

Before we start belittling and calling Characters and other choices we see in the draft PDF useless, rubbish, or bad, lets wait for the actual codex to come out. Instead, I propose we focus on the possible tactics the various neat things from rumors and this Draft PDF. Just a thought.

[Valerian]

Without being an IC he still can't join a unit and ride with them in a transport, regardless of what the transport capacity is.

It's not a dedicated transport. If Crowe can't ride with a squad in a Stormraven, neither can a dreadnought.

 

Except that the rules for a Stormraven explicitly states that it can transport a squad and a dreadnought at the same time. The Stormraven rules do not state that it can transport two units other than in this specific way. So, I'll say it again, unless Crowe gets made an IC (or gets turned into a Dreadnought) in the final version of the rules, he cannot ride in a transport with another unit/squad.

 

V

[Gentlemanloser]

If GKT's do get grenades I hope they include grenade launcher bits to stick to the side of SB, or mini-typhoon shoulder mounted equivalents

 

The PDF Fluff mentions Grenades on Belts. So I doubt those types of grenade launchers will be part of it.

[Oiad]

Notice something about 3/4 of those same examples? They can get across the board quickly which you mentioned so that isn't it. Three out of the 4 are BA special characters? Nah, I think we all knew that. What could it be? Oh yeah, 3/4ths of them are EXPENSIVE. Tycho still costs more than Crowe and frankly does nothing to benefit his army.

 

Before we start belittling and calling Characters and other choices we see in the draft PDF useless, rubbish, or bad, lets wait for the actual codex to come out. Instead, I propose we focus on the possible tactics the various neat things from rumors and this Draft PDF. Just a thought.

Hehehe, even if he was 150 points I doubt many more BA players would take Tycho. Sure the others are expensive, but it doesn't stop people fielding them. Mephiston in particular seems quite popular outside of die-hard competition lists. At the price Crowe is GW could crank him up by 20-50 points worth on helpful bonuses and I'd bet he'll get used. Overall I'm not bashing him, but there is a feeling that he doesn't seem fully realised yet - that he could be more useful than just an FoC changing Bro-champ. Hopefully the finished article will make him seem more enticing.

 

EDIT

You wrote all this and still don't believe he'll be made an IC? ;)

Who knows. I'm not going to make an assumption on it. With the right tooling he could work well as an IC or a non-IC.

 

As for the writing, if I could get a detailed message typed up using a single word it would have been done. :D

 

The entry mentions that the sword is one of the most powerful daemon blades and draws heretics and daemons to it like flies. So if you saw this sword within Assault range and heard its siren's call, you would heedlessly rush toward the Grey Knight holding it.

 

While they could bury it, like Sigmar buried Nagash's crown, the result would be the same. It would attract the very stuff they are hiding it from and try to corrupt all of those around it. Giving the sword to one of the strongest and most pure beings in the galaxy, who kills the seekers with the very sword, was not a bad idea. Only bad thing is the daemon might get stronger for each heretic Crowe kills.

I understand that destroying it or banishing it would not help and that it acts as a beacon. More as you pointed to, whether sending Crowe into battle with it (and likely against other daemons) is such a good idea at all. You'd hope that if they felt it was alright that he'd have the mental guile to suppress it's influence...

[Irbis]

You'd hope that if they felt it was alright that he'd have the mental guile to suppress it's influence...

 

Maybe the influence is suppressed to nearly zero? :confused:

[Inache]

If GKT's do get grenades I hope they include grenade launcher bits to stick to the side of SB, or mini-typhoon shoulder mounted equivalents

 

The PDF Fluff mentions Grenades on Belts. So I doubt those types of grenade launchers will be part of it.

 

But the fingers! :blush:

 

Yeah, I went back and read it again. Maybe the GKT's get special push button grenades?

 

You'd hope that if they felt it was alright that he'd have the mental guile to suppress it's influence...

 

Maybe the influence is suppressed to nearly zero? -_-

 

It depends on how you look at it's power and influence. Since it conveys bonuses to charging enemies, it obviously still has some influence. The only question is how powerful would that influence be if Crowe wasn't there to contain it. If it would be exponentially greater, then hanging with Crowe is the best idea. If not, then they should have stowed it on Titan. The world may never know.

[Gentlemanloser]

But the fingers!

 

LoL!

 

Maybe it's the lack of powerfists? Giving our Termies small enough fingers to use regular 'nades. ;)

[Zhukov]

I'm pretty sure Crowe won't be an IC in the final codex. Both his fluff, the fact that he's a good character now already and the fact that he's not one 'at the moment', make me think that. If they make him an IC while Purifiers stay like they are now, with good Psycannon stats.... that would make him one of the best Characters ever, really.

 

Look at this build:

Crowe 150

5 Purifiers; 2x psycannon; 3x halberds; rhino 186

5 Purifiers; 2x psycannon; 3x halberds; rhino 186

5 Purifiers; 2x psycannon; 3x halberds; rhino 186

5 Purifiers; 2x psycannon; 3x halberds; rhino 186

5 Purifiers; 2x psycannon; 3x halberds; rhino 186

Dreadknight 205

Dreadknight 205

Dreadknight 205

1700 total

 

Hide him or steal a rhino from a squad, not a big deal. The fact that Crowe makes this BUILD possible makes him good, it's not even that important what he does himself anymore, that's the scary part.

[the jeske]

+ with all GK looking the same it is not hard to put him with a blob of 10 -15 dudes in a building and your opponent may not notice[from the other side of the table] that it is actualy 11-16 dudes and one is standing at the back 2" away.

 

 

GK fluff is delicious to read.

[Zhukov]

+ with all GK looking the same it is not hard to put him with a blob of 10 -15 dudes in a building and your opponent may not notice[from the other side of the table] that it is actualy 11-16 dudes and one is standing at the back 2" away.

Hahah, well I wouldn't count on that. You can bet I would ask you where Crowe is hiding out ;) He's easy enough to hide behind terrain or Rhinos though... He's just 1 power armoured guy after all.

 

Although I suddenly realise; because he's not an IC he doesn't have to stay 2" away from a squad (:

[Gentlemanloser]

While paying 150 points to unlock Purifiers as troops might be a good deal, that is in essence what you're doing.

 

Especially if all Crowe is gong to do is hide in a building somewhere.

 

While it might be a good army build, it's terrible SC design.

 

Where you don't want the Charcater itself, but would spend his points just to change your FoC.

 

Crowe should be worth using for Crowe. Which he patently and obviously isn't. IC or not.

[Oiad]

Couldn't agree more. A good 5th Ed' SM SC should be setpiece presence on the TT, not just a one-trick pony on the game's setup.

[Zhukov]

No wait a second, you can (and should) do more with him:

 

Hiding with the reason to countercharge. This is different then hididng to do nothing... That purifier build can very much be a gunline army, especially if the Dreadknight weapons turn out to be good too. He's a perfect counter-assault unit in that case.

 

1 Squad could stay 'home', so he can use that rhino to move forwards with the rest.

 

You could play with a Stormraven instead of a 3rd Dreadknight and put him in that. (should work pretty well in this build actually, you could also play without Rhinos for 2 Ravens and 2 Dreadknights.)

 

Why doing any of these things? He's VERY killy for his cost... Able to tear trough any horde squad and other normal infantry with ease, while also being able to hurt vehicles with rending and, last but not least, being able to 'suicide' against important models. Really that's not bad for a 150 point character...

 

I love him as he is now, really. (alright, mostly because I love the 'current' Purifiers so much :) )

[Resv]

Couldn't agree with Zhukov more, he isn't the best Character in the game, or even in the codex, but he is pretty strong and very killy. In my previous posts on this matter I detailed how I was able to take out an entire Guard Blob Platoon with just Crowe. I've also used his Heroic Strike ability to kill both Mephiston and The Sanguinator (and as of last night Logan). Crowe is FAR from a one trick pony, he is a decent choice to unlock strong troops and acts as a very strong counter charge unit. He is much more than a more expensive Brotherhood Champion as well, his added stats and Rending on his sword attacks REALLY help him deal with the more dangerous characters out there.

 

Saying he is a one trick pony is kinda dumb and short sighted. Being able just to make Purifiers troops is great but that isn't really a "trick" is it? He doesn't really change deployment in anyway, that is what a GM is for from what I can tell from the draft PDF. I think that Oiad got it right when he wrote "there is a feeling that he doesn't seem fully realized yet." I have to agree, much of the draft PDF feels like it isn't fully realized yet.

 

Awesome list by the by Zhukov, you could work some points around and make most of your transports into Razorbacks for that extra suppression fire since RBs are 5 points more than Rhinos in the draft PFD! Would you mind if I game this list a trial proxy run this week?

[Zhukov]

Awesome list by the by Zhukov, you could work some points around and make most of your transports into Razorbacks for that extra suppression fire since RBs are 5 points more than Rhinos in the draft PFD! Would you mind if I game this list a trial proxy run this week?

Well thank you and of course go ahead, play with it!

 

Razorbacks are not worth it; I think you underestimate the value of firing the Psycannons from the Rhino his hatch, that's really really good. They have to destroy the Rhinos before they can silence the GK's. It works even better than in other Marine armies (which also apply this tactic often, but with other units) because of "Fortitude". (you can't shoot from a rhino which is shaken/stunned normally but Fortitude solves this)

[Oiad]

Saying he is a one trick pony is kinda dumb and short sighted. Being able just to make Purifiers troops is great but that isn't really a "trick" is it? He doesn't really change deployment in anyway, that is what a GM is for from what I can tell from the draft PDF. I think that Oiad got it right when he wrote "there is a feeling that he doesn't seem fully realized yet." I have to agree, much of the draft PDF feels like it isn't fully realized yet.

 

Awesome list by the by Zhukov, you could work some points around and make most of your transports into Razorbacks for that extra suppression fire since RBs are 5 points more than Rhinos in the draft PFD! Would you mind if I game this list a trial proxy run this week?

C'mon, let's keep it friendly here. I hope you don't always take critiques so personally when they're thrown at the inanimate subject matter, especially for something that is someone else's work and could become forgotten history within a month. It's fair enough if you have an alternate opinion on the topic but it won't help to directly insult people for voicing a unfavourable criticism towards it. You're just going to have to be more respectful to board members if you hope to be convincing.

 

Zhukov has a strong line-up and gains credit for leaving his list open to flexibility - 50+ points left over on 1750 upwards, easy exchange of DKs for other vehicles, fills up on psycannons that can be swapped out for cheaper alternatives, etc. But some of those tactics aren't so persuasive :

1. Hide him in the bushes and hope for the best / Death to your leader!
   Maybe this credits opponents with too much foresight/intelligence but taking either route here isn't going to be viable once other armies have had to time to check out the new codex too. It's very reliant on believing the enemy will act in a predicable manner and requires Crowe to keep up with the pace of your forces. After a while I predict many armies & HQs will find ways to outmanoeuvre him or/and find other ways to tie him up. These aims would be much easier to achieve alone if Crowe had more (hopefully self-reliant :rolleyes:) manoeuvrability.
    
   
2. Bring in some babysitters.
   Should you really have to divert units to assist a HQ? In such a small army you won't want to take away possible scoring resources from the front-line to guard a non-scoring asset. Crowe should be working toward helping you to achieve objectives, not hindering them.
   
3. Flyers to the rescue.
   This I can see happening, especially with Zhukov's list that he placed up above. Swap a DK for an SR and you still have plenty of firepower on the move. In smaller games this may be more problematic. This is where having to make leeway for a 200pt+ flying transport just for a single character in a 1000-1500 point game starts to stick out as being cost ineffective.
   

Some nice ideas that make full use of the Purifiers. I like that when using this list you can comfortably switch over to incinerators or other NFW upgrades if you want to change your tactics. Let's hope GW don't dramatically alter their cheap costs - they may soon loose the appeal they're gathering amongst those who already have plans for them.

 

EDIT - Repeated phrasing, tacky grammar.