Utsujin Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Which would be the trade off. They aren't supposed to write a codex that does everything perfectly and makes all others obsolete... well, not since Space Wolves they won't. :cuss ' they're grey knights, they're suppose to be good, not grey marines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilicate Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 They are good. 20 pts for a Force Weapon AND a storm bolter? Oh, and they can take a psychic test to become S5 in CC? And psykers are at -1 Ld to target them with powers? Come on, what else could you want for 20 ppm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utsujin Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Ok, you fail a psychic test, or you get perils of the warp, now your sargeant dies, who is worth about 35 points or so alone. Now next time you test on ld 8. Most armies have anti psychic defenses, hoods galore, runes. They take away weapon skill, one attack, passive night fighting, and s6 for only a 5 point drop? Other armies dropped in points by 1 or 2, but gained special rules, pain token, ect. That's really not a fair trade off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 They take away weapon skill, one attack, passive night fighting, and s6 for only a 5 point drop? only shroud didnt work because avarge roll was most of the time bigger then the range of most weapons , in hth GK died like slags to any form of hth army and against shoty ones they couldnt even get in to hth . Dude you get cheap buffed up assault autocanons units and fortitude on tanks , the rest doesnt matter . I wish my Blast masters were shoting 3-4 times per turn , were 2 per squads for half the cost of a BM on a just as fearless unit [that has a pasive anti psyker de bufff] . And while it is true that a lot of armies have good anti psyker stuff , that still doesnt change the fact that the GK armies do not need to cast hammer hand on this units to be viable . In fact they could be casting 0 powers per turn and they would still be ok due to the weapons their squads have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilicate Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 They take away weapon skill, one attack, passive night fighting, and s6 for only a 5 point drop? only shroud didnt work because avarge roll was most of the time bigger then the range of most weapons , in hth GK died like slags to any form of hth army and against shoty ones they couldnt even get in to hth . Dude you get cheap buffed up assault autocanons units and fortitude on tanks , the rest doesnt matter . I wish my Blast masters were shoting 3-4 times per turn , were 2 per squads for half the cost of a BM on a just as fearless unit [that has a pasive anti psyker de bufff] . And while it is true that a lot of armies have good anti psyker stuff , that still doesnt change the fact that the GK armies do not need to cast hammer hand on this units to be viable . In fact they could be casting 0 powers per turn and they would still be ok due to the weapons their squads have. Exactly. On average, you're still killing 2.5 marines in assault if you don't charge. On the charge, double that number. And those aren't even your assault troops. You're killing MORE models now than before, on average when you charge. As far as hordes go - uh, you have some of the best anti-infantry weapons in the game. Incinerators, Psycannons, and every single guy has storm bolters! You should be able to waste hordes of troops no problem. In addition - you've got access to purifiers, which can be a troops choice if you so desire. They are, without a doubt, the best anti-horde unit in the game. I'm sorry, I've got no sympathy. You've acquired all the tools you need in order to win, and then some. It seems this is going to be one of, if not the best, codex available. Who cares about mechguard when you give them one turn to shoot at you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utsujin Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Yea, if you take a personal teleporter, they count as fast attack then, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Ignis Domus Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Not according to the leaked codex, though they might change this later on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utsujin Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 I hope they don't because that would be really cool if they did. Gives them a much more tactical area to play with.. tanked units, and jp units.. mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Ignis Domus Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 I'm sorry. Do you hope they do, or don't? I seem to be misunderstanding your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utsujin Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 I hope they don't become fast attack if they have personal teleporters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Ignis Domus Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Ah, I see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearden441 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Not according to the leaked codex, though they might change this later on. i am pretty sure that this is the case, I know multiple people have said that later editions of the codex has them as FA with teleports... im taking it all with a grain of salt until i see the final dex though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 I hope they don't become fast attack if they have personal teleporters. only there are no personal teleporters in the GK dex other then the one for knights and for paladins . GK dudes can deep strike but then they end up in fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyking Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 I hope they don't become fast attack if they have personal teleporters. only there are no personal teleporters in the GK dex other then the one for knights and for paladins . GK dudes can deep strike but then they end up in fast. Um, no. Personal teleporters, according to the document which shall not be named, are limited to PAGK, specifically the basic Strike squad, and the dreadknight. According to said document, Personal teleporters do NOT make them fast attack, they simply make them jump infantry. There's no mention of shifting the FOC in said document. The rumor that said they became FA was from Blood of Kittens, and his clarifications tend more toward the erroneous then his original rumors. The GK Strike squad also gets Deepstrike as part of its rules, as Troops, but thats seperate from the teleporters. Teleporters grant a 1 per game 30" move, not a DS. No terminator unit, regular or paladin, gets teleporters. Basic DS because of terminator armor and done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gil galed Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Katie Drake has said previously that PAGK with teleporters are now FA and given she is working from a newer codex is probably right, sorry. ~Gil :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 They take away weapon skill, one attack, passive night fighting, and s6 for only a 5 point drop? The Aegis Suit was also nerfed. But we upgraded from Fearless to ATSKNF, gained a *Power Weapon* and 2 Psychic Powers (one of them very unique and very useful!), gained free Grenades, Deep Strike and gained a far cheaper 'Sarge'. All in all, a good trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synack Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 I'm not sure Fearless -> ATSKNF is a 'upgrade', specially when you're LD9. Running off the board from shooting is never fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oiad Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Katie Drake has said previously that PAGK with teleporters are now FA and given she is working from a newer codex is probably right, sorry. Apologies, I got my sources mixed up from earlier. These have now been altered. I believe it was Tastytaste who originally reported this rumour, though having been mentioned on the Heresy Online Board Ms. Drake hasn't of yet denied it either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordsloth Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 In either case, it seems likely that they would be fast attack if given teleporters. Grey knights already have special troop shenanigans in their terminators, it's probably unlikely they'll also get jump infantry as troops like BA do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justcar Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 In either case, it seems likely that they would be fast attack if given teleporters.Grey knights already have special troop shenanigans in their terminators, it's probably unlikely they'll also get jump infantry as troops like BA do. I agree, though they should given that it is such a low model count army. We need all of the troops we can get! Still, a 30" contest move would probably cause a riot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 As fast they can still contest with a 30" move. With a GM, they could even score. :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slind Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 With just 1 attack, they'll get destroyed by hordes due to low number of attacks. Which I think is, as it should be. GKs has until now been above average at everything, but not fantastic at anything. Thus the challenge was to figure out if you could out-shoot or out-assault your opponent - because there would always be an area where the GK was better than the opponent. Thus going toe-to-toe with assault specialist like orks would be suecide just as trying to out-gun IG would spell disaster... However, you could out-gun the orks any day and assult the IGs into the ground. It would appear that this trend is carrying over into the new dex, which - if it is true - is fantastic! GK should be a powerful, but difficult army to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearden441 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 can anyone take a guess when we might start seeing some new official pictures? I am hoping by next week seeing it was pointed out that they go on sale i think it was 3/26? Also is it allowed to post a scan of the white dwarf information that people have talked about? Would be great to see a pic of what they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vindicatus Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Slind, that argument can hold true to just about any army played, not only the GK. I keep trying to say these, and apparently it keeps getting lost in translation, but the GK were designed to be a sort of elite army. Difficult to master, small in force, typically outnumbered. While every army requires you to (more or less) not make stupid decisions with your movements and shooting targets, never have tactics rung truly necessary than for the Grey Knights. While we're certainly getting an upgrade, we're still going to be lacking in models on the table compared to other forces. Work smarter, not harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Still, a 30" contest move would probably cause a riot. I don't see why, this can be prevented like you normally try to prevent that happening too... It's actually less usefull than vehicles like Wave Serpents doing it as the Grey Knights won't be able tankshock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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