RedemptionNL Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 I'm a bit confused about these Henshmen-spam-builds. When I look at the leaked info, you'll need an inquisitor for each henshmen warband you take. Coteaz only moves them from Elite to Troops, he does not remove the Inquisitor requirement... and since all inquisitors are HQ's, then how do you manage to cram 5-6 warbands into the list? Or is there something in small prints I have missed? Yes, you missed the fact that he does remove the Inquisitor requirement. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justcar Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 We should find out shortly, black boxes should be out within the next two weeks. Dreadknight, Terminators, and a codex is the rumor. From the leaked pictures, I would except a power armor box as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DinoDoc Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 We should find out shortly, black boxes should be out within the next two weeks. Dreadknight, Terminators, and a codex is the rumor. From the leaked pictures, I would except a power armor box as well. PA and TA GK are no-brainers just based on the number of units in the codex you can make from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Re: henchmen spam, I originally thought you had to take an inquisitor to take henchmen also but that is not the case. If we take a closer look it seems that inquisitors are not required (hangover from the old dex). Rather henchmen are an Elite choice, and in addition each inquisitor taken also allows you to take a henchmen unit without using up an Elite slot. Further, coteaz makes them Troops choices instead of Elite. If ward wanted to restrict henchmen by the number of inquisitors taken he would have made it so that a HQ choice unlocks them like honor guard etc. rather than putting them in Elite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexHolker Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Re: henchmen spam, I originally thought you had to take an inquisitor to take henchmen also but that is not the case. If we take a closer look it seems that inquisitors are not required (hangover from the old dex). Rather henchmen are an Elite choice, and in addition each inquisitor taken also allows you to take a henchmen unit without using up an Elite slot. You are incorrect. If nothing else, it only tells you how many henchmen are in a squad if you are taking <= 1 per Inquisitor. Take more than that, and the squad size is completely undefined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 No, you are incorrect. See how that works, stating something in an abrasive way didnt help my position at all but it probably did succeed in annoying you. Mission accomplished. See its irritating when someone says things in that manner isnt it. Now, maybe you or anyone else would care to explain, logically, why henchmen units would be listed as Elites if the only way to take them was to take an inquisitor who then makes them not use up a foc? Doesnt make sense does it. Thats because such units are always placed in HQ and 'unlocked" by an HQ choice, unless there is another way to take these units i.e. as Elite choices that do use up an Elite foc slot, unless you take either a vanilla inquisitor (saving an elite slot) or coteaz making them troops. As for squad size becoming "completely undefined", where are you getting that from? Perhaps your leaked copy differs from mine : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyking Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 No, you are incorrect. See how that works, stating something in an abrasive way didnt help my position at all but it probably did succeed in annoying you. Mission accomplished. See its irritating when someone says things in that manner isnt it. Now, maybe you or anyone else would care to explain, logically, why henchmen units would be listed as Elites if the only way to take them was to take an inquisitor who then makes them not use up a foc? Doesnt make sense does it. Thats because such units are always placed in HQ and 'unlocked" by an HQ choice, unless there is another way to take these units i.e. as Elite choices that do use up an Elite foc slot, unless you take either a vanilla inquisitor (saving an elite slot) or coteaz making them troops. As for squad size becoming "completely undefined", where are you getting that from? Perhaps your leaked copy differs from mine : ) I do believe you are correct, though the phrasing in the book seems to add to confusion, not lessen it. So with Coteaz and another inquisitor, the max number of IHW you can take is 11, 2 with Inquisitors (one being Coteaz), 3 in Elite, 6 in Troop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 It's ambiguous wording. For each Inquisitor you may also include <snip> Which would imply you could use Henchment *without* an Inquisitor, but they would take up an Elite slot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedemptionNL Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 You can only take one Henchmen Squad per Inquisitor unless you take Coteaz. Read Coteaz's 'Lord of Formosa' rule, it mentions you are normally limited by the number of Inquisitors. As to why it's an Elite option instead of an HQ? Well for some missions it matters, like the Dawn of War deployment, where you cannot deploy Elites, while you can deploy HQ units. We should find out shortly, black boxes should be out within the next two weeks. Dreadknight, Terminators, and a codex is the rumor. From the leaked pictures, I would except a power armor box as well. PAGK will be released, they'll just not be in the black box preview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 It is ambiguous, although after reading the lord of formosa rule does imply that henchmen are restricted. Oh well less than a week until we'll know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexHolker Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 As for squad size becoming "completely undefined", where are you getting that from? It says "For each inquisitor in your army you may also include a unit of 3-12 henchmen, chosen in any combination." If you were correct, how many henchmen can you include in a squad if you don't have an Inquisitor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Ah I see what you mean. Although the wording is ambiguous at best, this coupled with the lord of formosa rule pretty much solidifies it then. Not really a bad thing, just changes a few concepts I was working with. Thanks for the clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosPhoenix Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Can't wait until thursday. I hope pictures will be up tomorrow, but wednesday at the latest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessander Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 I played a test game today (March 6 2011) with the new Grey Knights leaked codex, versus Dark Eldar. 2000 Pts each side: Grey Knights: * Mordrack & 6 Ghost Knights (1 Psycannon) * Librarian with Teleport Homer, Quicksilver, Sanctuary, Summoning * Vindicaire * Purifiers (10) with 4 Psycannons & Halberds * Strike Squad (10) with 2 Incinerators, Personal Teleporters & halberds * Strike Squad (5) with 1 Incinerator, Halberds, Razorback with Las/Plas and Extra Armor * Nemesis Dreadknight with personal Teleporter * Nemesis Dreadknight with personal Teleporter Long story short, it was a bloody battle but the GKs sqeaked out a victory. For a full battle report, including a failry low-tech animation of the battle, go to http://silvercompassdesigns.com/personal/405030611anim.html. My observations: Deep striking Dreadknights nearly REQUIRE a ranged weapon (beyond Holocaust). They become HUUGE fire magnets. Vindicaires are nowhere near undercosted. They will likely get only a single shot off before being killed. We didn't know what Blind Grenades did, but I doubt they would have helped. Purifiers + Librarian with Quicksilver = insanely difficult unit to assault. 15 Helions charged them and didn't get a single hit in before dying! Can a librarian use Summoning on the same turn he arrives from reserves? I think we may have played that wrong. Additionally, if you Summon a unit to within 2" of the Librarian, can he join that squad? (we played Yes). Teleport Homer on a Librarian helps with Summoning :grin: Saving your psychic spells for the Force Weapon aspect of most Nemesis Weapons is better used for large squads, not for single models. DE's shouldn't rely on the anti-psyker gear. With the GK's leadership of 10 it's a long shot to hurt the silver Slaughterers. Modrak's Ghostly Bodyguard is a great way to expand your threat range of his squad - assining a wound to Mordrak means your squad is basically 4" closer to a target unit (for assault). However, due to Majority Save rules and the fact that he's a unit upgrade when the bodyguard is alive, it looks like you'll only be able to allocate wounds to him from failed 2+ saves (due to his iron halo it won't work with failed saves from AP1/2 guns or power weapons) Don't forget that Mordrak and his Ghosts are first in the Fray! (grumble grumble, I could have used those reserve bonuses earlier in the game). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimz Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Wouldn't it be better to give Purifers Hammers instead of Halbeards? (S6 with Hammerhand + I10 with quickening) Teleporters vs Guns of Dreadknights, what do you think would be better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosPhoenix Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 @alessander As a deathwing player I am used to terminator deep striking. The biggest problem is that the terminators are standing so close together and missle spam lists get a lot of blast hits. Now if we really get so few ranged invulnerable saves, plasma cannon spam would be really bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordsloth Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Wouldn't it be better to give Purifers Hammers instead of Halbeards? (S6 with Hammerhand + I10 with quickening) Teleporters vs Guns of Dreadknights, what do you think would be better? Purifiers make more sense to me with lightni...ehrm...falchions. I did the math once for thunderwolf mounted wolf lords and str5 with reroll to wound is better against most toughness values. If the falchions give an extra attack (like lightning claws do) and stormbolters dont then its even more clear. The only thing the hammers are better for is vehicles. From what I've seen, Purifiers with a librarian are a very scary glass cannon. They can do :cusstons of damage to pretty much anything except a monolith (and maybe one or two more things) but if something goes wrong (Let's say the libby fails a test or quicksilver gets hooded, runed or shadowed) they stand to take a beating and theyre only marines when it comes to defense. EDIT: This may also be a reason to take halberds as a precautionary measure. Theyre slightly cheaper and they will still allow you to beat out a fair number of things on initiative when quicksilver goes wrong. It also frees up a quicksilver test in cases where i5 would already do the job so you can get of an extra cleansing or force weapon attack. Halberds might be a sort of middleroad for people in an anti-psyker metagame (which may become the metagame in quite a few places if grey knights become an oft played army with strong builds) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oiad Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Vindicaires are nowhere near undercosted. They will likely get only a single shot off before being killed. We didn't know what Blind Grenades did, but I doubt they would have helped. At a guess blind grenades seem likely to be defensive grenades now, though if memory serves me they use to provide a cumulative cover save. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosPhoenix Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Ok, I don't know when the preorders will be up, about 3 weeks before April 2nd. But as a I said, Black Boxes are being sent to the stores, which means I'll see them on Thursday. Maybe I'll be able to make pictures, but I hope pictures will be on gw's site before then. Vindicaires are nowhere near undercosted. They will likely get only a single shot off before being killed. We didn't know what Blind Grenades did, but I doubt they would have helped. At a guess blind grenades seem likely to be defensive grenades now, though if memory serves me they use to provide a cumulative cover save. Defensive grenades remove the +1 attack of the attacker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordsloth Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Defensive grenades remove the +1 attack of the attacker. EDIT: Nvm, miscommunication averted!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosPhoenix Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Defensive grenades remove the +1 attack of the attacker. That's ... true, I guess. I don't immediately see the relevance to halberds vs hammers vs falchions though :rolleyes: Thats because I'm not able to quote correctly. I fixed that :D. Your posting is right though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 •Teleport Homer on a Librarian helps with Summoning :grin: Technically, a Homer doesn't help with The Summoning, as the target unit only appears using the Deep Stirke rules, and not by 'Teleporting'. Now if the Libby could have had a Locator Beacon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oiad Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Vindicaires are nowhere near undercosted. They will likely get only a single shot off before being killed. We didn't know what Blind Grenades did, but I doubt they would have helped. At a guess blind grenades seem likely to be defensive grenades now, though if memory serves me they use to provide a cumulative cover save. Defensive grenades remove the +1 attack of the attacker. Thanks Capt. However the issue was what blind grenades do, not what defensive grenades do. If they do act as similar to smoke grenades it will help a lot in the shooting phase, considering the possible cover save bonuses. As defensive grenades they would help to dent the charge by negating the opponent's assaulting bonus. TBH, units in these GK leak seem to have so many grenades, I wonder if they'll be in the final version. Alessander didn't really clarify whether his Vindicare was KO'ed in the shooting phase or the assault phase, but playing with either concepts may have helped. EDIT - On the subject of grenades, I wonder if psyk-out grenades will require enemies to make a leadership test before assaulting and being assaulted by Grey Knights. I doubt it rewards I10 (as in IA7) to GKs on the assault, as evil as that would be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosPhoenix Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Thanks Capt. However the issue was what blind grenades do, not what defensive grenades do. If they do act as similar to smoke grenades it will help a lot in the shooting phase, considering the possible cover save bonuses. As defensive grenades they would help to dent the charge by negating the opponent's assaulting bonus. TBH, units in these GK leak seem to have so many grenades, I wonder if they'll be in the final version. Alessander didn't really clarify whether his Vindicare was KO'ed in the shooting phase or the assault phase, but playing with either concepts may have helped. EDIT - On the subject of grenades, I wonder if psyk-out grenades will require enemies to make a leadership test before assaulting and being assaulted by Grey Knights. I doubt it rewards I10 (as in IA7) to GKs on the assault, as evil as that would be. No need for a little hinted rudeness. I think blind grenades will work as defensive grenades, I should have stated that more clearly. I don't think that they'll improve a cover save, because in real world terms you would have to thow them everytime someone aims at you. And smoke grenades obscure your vision too. On the other hand, this is SciFi :cuss. Regarding the psyk-out grenades, it could be anything from a leadership test to an initiative advantage which could simulated dizziness of the victim. The name is pretty vague, like our good old psilencer. Yes the leaked codex has many grenades. Maybe some of them got removed and were for testing purposes only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakehunter52 Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Just passing the info along: Some GK paint jobs on exisiting models: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=295940 Super teaser? :cuss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.