IA: Sons of Denoria

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Now now children, keep your arguments to yourselves or at the least, out of this thread. Wrong or right you don't have to sledge each other because you actually believe in your own argument.

 

It's off topic and disruptive.

 

CJJ, when are you adding more stuff? The cupboard is still bare!

 

I'll also be interested to see just how different these guys turn out from my Blazing Sons. ;)

 

Though I have to say the whole life chain bit was a really good idea that I really wish I'd had first. ;)

 

Though I agree with Heru on the name. The Saxons were aggressive raiders and the name doesn't quite bring this across. Though that said, if the chapter itself isn't reflective of this part of the original Saxon's nature then by all means leave it out.

[Marshal Renatus]

1) I keep finding the stone knife bit also. It's a moot point, but the silver lining is that you now have two inspirations to draw from.

 

2) The more I read about Saxons and their culture, the more I think your chapter symbol should be a morning star. Very clubby/spiky/deathness and...the two pieces are connected by a chain.

 

"So what's the symbology there?"

"Symbology? Now that Duffy has relinquished his "King Bonehead" crown, I see we have an heir to the throne! I'm sure the word you were looking for was "symbolism." What is the ssss-himbolism there?"

 

3) Sons of Denoria doesn't pop for me either. Your chapter, your call. Influences I get when I read about them...raiders, swords, mauls, maces, hammers, shields, savage, runes, knives, copper, bronze, silver, victory, warfare, warriors, iron, halberds, ringmail (there's that chain thing again), hatred, fury...that's all I got, lol.

 

4) This link has great examples of their runes if you don't already have them.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Now now children, keep your arguments to yourselves or at the least, out of this thread. Wrong or right you don't have to sledge each other because you actually believe in your own argument.

 

It's off topic and disruptive.

 

CJJ, when are you adding more stuff? The cupboard is still bare!

 

I'll also be interested to see just how different these guys turn out from my Blazing Sons. :)

 

Though I have to say the whole life chain bit was a really good idea that I really wish I'd had first. :huh:

 

Though I agree with Heru on the name. The Saxons were aggressive raiders and the name doesn't quite bring this across. Though that said, if the chapter itself isn't reflective of this part of the original Saxon's nature then by all means leave it out.

 

Um.. Today was my day to start adding, which shall be forthcoming shortly!

 

With the name though "Sons of Denoria" was simply an easy out.. I may put more thought into it though, if it really seems so bad.

 

1) I keep finding the stone knife bit also. It's a moot point, but the silver lining is that you now have two inspirations to draw from.

 

2) The more I read about Saxons and their culture, the more I think your chapter symbol should be a morning star. Very clubby/spiky/deathness and...the two pieces are connected by a chain.

 

"So what's the symbology there?"

"Symbology? Now that Duffy has relinquished his "King Bonehead" crown, I see we have an heir to the throne! I'm sure the word you were looking for was "symbolism." What is the ssss-himbolism there?"

 

3) Sons of Denoria doesn't pop for me either. Your chapter, your call. Influences I get when I read about them...raiders, swords, mauls, maces, hammers, shields, savage, runes, knives, copper, bronze, silver, victory, warfare, warriors, iron, halberds, ringmail (there's that chain thing again), hatred, fury...that's all I got, lol.

 

4) This link has great examples of their runes if you don't already have them.

 

I had a great idea for a Chapter symbol, as it goes. Name-wise I get that it might suck a bit ;)

 

I shall shortly being doing a little more, so I'll bear that in mind as I go.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

So far i haven't really been able get a sense of a Saxon culture when i read your work, although that is to say that it is not enjoyable. I think the name of the chaper is actually quite good, i look forward to more!

 

To be honest, most of the influences you will ifnd can be attributed to any number of cultures from that era - alot of the religious and even naming conventions were similar, as I'm sure you're aware, so there'll be nothing overt apart with the main hints to it coming in how they fight, the honmworld and obviously the beliefs.

Edited February 16, 2011 by Captain Juan Juarez

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

With the name though "Sons of Denoria" was simply an easy out.. I may put more thought into it though, if it really seems so bad.

 

It's not that it's really that bad, it just doesn't feel right when I compare what you've presented of the chapter and where you're drawing their influences from and what you've named them as. It feels like a disconnect over how the chapter is expressed and the chapters name is meant to be their character boiled down to a single phrase.

[Dinks]

To be honest, most of the influences you will ifnd can be attributed to any number of cultures from that era - alot of the religious and even naming conventions were similar, as I'm sure you're aware, so there'll be nothing overt apart with the main hints to it coming in how they fight, the honmworld and obviously the beliefs.

I would say that they were roughly similar. Saxon names for example are quite different from the Angles and again different from the Thuringi and the Frisians. They all share a very similar language but many differences have been discovered when it comes to cultural practices.

 

I do like the idea of an amalgamation of the different cultures, that should make a very interesting chapter!

 

Also i hope the headache goes quickly!

[Ferrata]

Okay, I've deleted the main off-topicness. I've kept two earlier posts because I don't think it is right for CCJ to miss out on some possible area of inspiration - even if it is not 100% true or not. Please keep it civil or I will have to bring out the warning stick.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

With the name though "Sons of Denoria" was simply an easy out.. I may put more thought into it though, if it really seems so bad.

 

It's not that it's really that bad, it just doesn't feel right when I compare what you've presented of the chapter and where you're drawing their influences from and what you've named them as. It feels like a disconnect over how the chapter is expressed and the chapters name is meant to be their character boiled down to a single phrase.

 

Is it though? They should, in theory, be named well before they are developing/showing that character so would it be that descriptive?

 

Also, as well as being an easy out, the name also symbolised - partly - their own disassociation with that shared identity.

 

 

After my earlier shoddy update, I shall be attempting a more substantial one either later this evening or tomorrow morning but I have a question for ye Liberites: How detailed do I really need to be with the homeworld?

 

The Chapter draws alot of its character from the homeworld, so I feel that rather than describing the geography I need to talk indepth about the cuture like aspects of beliefs - both martial and spiritual - and the how the peoples - their warbands - are constantly at war and all that entails.

[NightrawenII]

Is it though? They should, in theory, be named well before they are developing/showing that character so would it be that descriptive?

Weeeell, if you want to talk this way: How it come they are named after their homeworld? :D

 

According to the Insignium Astartes, the name of chapter is chosen at the Founding.

 

After my earlier shoddy update, I shall be attempting a more substantial one either later this evening or tomorrow morning but I have a question for ye Liberites: How detailed do I really need to be with the homeworld?

 

The Chapter draws alot of its character from the homeworld, so I feel that rather than describing the geography I need to talk indepth about the cuture like aspects of beliefs - both martial and spiritual - and the how the peoples - their warbands - are constantly at war and all that entails.

Hard question... -_-

The Chapter is not their Homeworld and vice versa. Space Marines are influenced by the culture of their homeworld, but they are not copy-paste of the people of their homeworld.

They are brainwashed and indoctrinated into being Space Marines first and people of XYZ planet second.

[Dosjetka]

The Chapter is not their Homeworld and vice versa. Space Marines are influenced by the culture of their homeworld, but they are not copy-paste of the people of their homeworld.

They are brainwashed and indoctrinated into being Space Marines first and people of XYZ planet second.

Hard question but you're spot on nevertheless. On a side note, I'll have to go through this once again and see which new faces have popped up :D

 

Ludovic

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Is it though? They should, in theory, be named well before they are developing/showing that character so would it be that descriptive?

Weeeell, if you want to talk this way: How it come they are named after their homeworld? :D

 

According to the Insignium Astartes, the name of chapter is chosen at the Founding.

 

You miss the bit where I mentioned "easy out"? :P

 

After my earlier shoddy update, I shall be attempting a more substantial one either later this evening or tomorrow morning but I have a question for ye Liberites: How detailed do I really need to be with the homeworld?

 

The Chapter draws alot of its character from the homeworld, so I feel that rather than describing the geography I need to talk indepth about the cuture like aspects of beliefs - both martial and spiritual - and the how the peoples - their warbands - are constantly at war and all that entails.

Hard question... :P

The Chapter is not their Homeworld and vice versa. Space Marines are influenced by the culture of their homeworld, but they are not copy-paste of the people of their homeworld.

They are brainwashed and indoctrinated into being Space Marines first and people of XYZ planet second.

 

True, but you can derive alot of the character of the Chapter from homeworld in the way that the Space Wolves do, or even the Salamanders. Even the White Scars maintain "Brotherhoods", even if these are just elaborately named Companies.

 

The beliefs of many Chapters have come from their homeworlds, so too have others affected the way they operate.. I don't think utilising both of these aspects together is too far fetched.

[NightrawenII]

True, but you can derive alot of the character of the Chapter from homeworld in the way that the Space Wolves do, or even the Salamanders. Even the White Scars maintain "Brotherhoods", even if these are just elaborately named Companies.

 

The beliefs of many Chapters have come from their homeworlds, so too have others affected the way they operate.. I don't think utilising both of these aspects together is too far fetched.

Ho-ho-ho. It looks like my farseer skill is still working.:o

 

These are 1st Founding Chapters (Legions). They have such structure because the Primarch, a product of the same upbringing no less, has given them such form. In this way, the 1st Founding Chapters are different because they are the planet culture made into Astartes. However, the later Foundings are created in the way of Codex, they are products of Codex. (In fact, you could say that the Space Marine Chapters are based on the culture of Macragge.) This is the core concept, which is then twisted and changed by the outside influence.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

True, but you can derive alot of the character of the Chapter from homeworld in the way that the Space Wolves do, or even the Salamanders. Even the White Scars maintain "Brotherhoods", even if these are just elaborately named Companies.

 

The beliefs of many Chapters have come from their homeworlds, so too have others affected the way they operate.. I don't think utilising both of these aspects together is too far fetched.

Ho-ho-ho. It looks like my farseer skill is still working.:D

 

These are 1st Founding Chapters (Legions). They have such structure because the Primarch, a product of the same upbringing no less, has given them such form. In this way, the 1st Founding Chapters are different because they are the planet culture made into Astartes. However, the later Foundings are created in the way of Codex, they are products of Codex. (In fact, you could say that the Space Marine Chapters are based on the culture of Macragge.) This is the core concept, which is then twisted and changed by the outside influence.

 

You sound more like Santa than Eldrad.

 

And such an argument is nonsense, because Vulkan had nothing to do with Nocturne affecting the way the Salamanders wage war.

 

"Created in the way of the Codex" is also untrue for all successors.. Blood Angels, Black Templars - if such were to happen, Dark Angels, Iron Hands. All have facets that are non-Codex or are otherwise wholly differing from the Codex.

 

 

EDIT: Just to point out now: Regardless of any argument you bring forth, there are examples of my point in fluff however you dress them to say "But this is because..."... So to paraphrase Frank, I did - and will do - it my way.

Edited February 15, 2011 by Captain Juan Juarez

[Captain Juan Juarez]

** Post Censored by Order of the Star Hippos of Orion ** Edited February 15, 2011 by Captain Juan Juarez

[Ecritter]

Founding sounds excellent to me. On the homeworld, since its going to be affecting your marines greatly I'd say it comes up short. You are still planning on the culture of the natives making an impact on the Chapter right?

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Founding sounds excellent to me. On the homeworld, since its going to be affecting your marines greatly I'd say it comes up short. You are still planning on the culture of the natives making an impact on the Chapter right?

 

The Homeworld part that is up is all I want to say about the world its self.. In my mind I would go on to talk about the people and its culture then and how it interacts with the Chapter.

 

What I meant though, is is that enough about the physical world? Or do I need to talk about where the Chapter keeps its halls or how green the grass is?

 

That won't be the entire section, I'm just seeking a "where to go next" opinion.. More on geography or onto culture?

[Ecritter]

I'd say that if the physical structure of the planet it's going to drive more of the IA, then a short general description should be enough. Its my understanding that the native culture is going to be much more important and take up alot more room.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Aye, my though was one or two lines on the physical actualities of the planet and then everything else in that section will be regarding the culture of the natives.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

I'm going to include a sidebar talking more about the Eldar and how the Denorians - and to a lesser extent the Chapter - refer to them as Kyton, Stealers of Life. Edited February 16, 2011 by Captain Juan Juarez

[Ecritter]

One question comes to mind after reading the history. What first brought colonists to the planet? Not sure just how much of the history that early is necessary, but some idea as to why the people were there might be nice.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

One question comes to mind after reading the history. What first brought colonists to the planet? Not sure just how much of the history that early is necessary, but some idea as to why the people were there might be nice.

 

I thought that might have come through in the Origins part; they are simply reclaiming what was lost during the neglect caused by the Heresy and Scouring rather than neededing a specific reason beyond "this world is suitable for colonisation".

 

I would obviously think it's needed, but I see that the early history informs who the Denorians are and why the behave as they do as a "society", which then progresses to how the Chapter is as it is.

[Ecritter]

If the Sons are a third founding Chapter, the humans would have had to have been on the planet long before the Heresy to have devolved to the state they found them in. Just my opinion.

 

I'd suggest simple colonization during the The Stellar Exodus in the Dark Age of Technology. Its when mankind really start to settle the stars.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

If the Sons are a third founding Chapter, the humans would have had to have been on the planet long before the Heresy to have devolved to the state they found them in. Just my opinion.

 

I'd suggest simple colonization during the The Stellar Exodus in the Dark Age of Technology. Its when mankind really start to settle the stars.

 

Aye, but what I meant was the planet was colonized because it was suitable for such.. Plus I hadn't given it much thought because I don't see the impact it has?

 

In my head: Denoria is slowly beoming a part of the Imperium until the Heresy breaks out and then it becomes another forgotten child until the Third Founding and the Chapter seek to take back what was lost.

[Ecritter]

Up to you on the inclusion of that information. Sounds good as is.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Up to you on the inclusion of that information. Sounds good as is.

 

Disagree if you think I'm wrong.. Just in my mind I didn't even think that question would arise, why the colonists where there in the first place. Plus why the Chapter was there, as I said, i felt was answered by the Origins.

 

One question, does the stuff about the way the natives fight seem out of place or does it fit - as I hoped it would - with their history as to why they fight that way?