Isryion Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 You guys seem to be discounting the BSM's alot. I have one tau opponent for example that runs with 2 hammerheads and 3 BS's supported by suits and a pathfinder squad with kroot for objectives. Personally the thought of moving on 6 from reserve and smoking a hammerhead per raven is very appealing, especially as after that he should have a face full of DOA squads to deal with. That's why I like the dakka raven, mobile and will shred any infantry left on the board. I definitely consider the BSMs, but maybe the fact that they're not optional is why few of us mentioned them. They'll definitely be part of my plan, the problem is that that plan depends on who my opponent is. It might be post dropoff, or if I have good target and both ravens are safe, I may launch all 8 missiles into a single target or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 I've been writing a couple of dual raven lists and I think I'll be running with the TLMM, TLAC, HurB set up. It cheaper than the TML version but retains more versatility after the BSM's are used as he spirit can pop armor wig the MM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherTim Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 would it be possilbe to request some mathhammer to compair the TLTM and TLMM versus various armor values? I would like to see how the 2 str 8 shots compare to one melta.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 Not great with math hammer but experience wise the biggest draw back to a MM is the range and missing to hit. The SR eliminates these drawbacks and I feel that for the price the TML's aren't going to cut it at armour nor are their 2 blasts going to add enough anti infantry to justify their cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherTim Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 maybe not against MEQ, but against anything else, it will be golden! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 Ok still thinking, given that their both twin linked and they both wound on 2's most of the time, what's better he AC or the PC. I think it mint be the PC especially against infantry as you average damage output is going to be 4-5 in the open and still be better or atleast equal to the AC in cover, against vehicles I'd rather use the MM than either and the Pc has a better range than the AC. The AC is better against single models How eve as it does up to 4 wounds instead of 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isryion Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Ok still thinking, given that their both twin linked and they both wound on 2's most of the time, what's better he AC or the PC. I think it mint be the PC especially against infantry as you average damage output is going to be 4-5 in the open and still be better or atleast equal to the AC in cover, against vehicles I'd rather use the MM than either and the Pc has a better range than the AC. The AC is better against single models How eve as it does up to 4 wounds instead of 1. My thinking is that while the TLPC are good, TLAC is more flexible. Whatever you have in the SR should be able to kill the troops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HB66 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 In my opinion - - I love Plasma Cannons, the small blast template has never been a problem in all the games i have used them in. I find that the AP 2 on the PC more than makes up for the small blast template. You can auto kill everything basically, Nobz in suits, termies, power armour, incubi, etc..... the PC's are the ultimate enemy tenderizer is why i take em. What better way to charge into a combat then nuking 2 or 3 guys autmatically.......you just dont have that kind of reliability with the AC's......and being twin linked just makes them perfect. HB66 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HB66 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Oh yeah- - ill be running SR with... HB's, PC's, Hurricanes, and extra armor. - i want it to wipe out infantry before i charge in and have the PC's take out any light vehicles, and use the PC's and missles to take out any heavier armor. Ive always done well with PC's against armour, just get on the side or the rear, which shouldnt be hard with the SR's speed. HB66 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMouth Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I was debating about making the raven an anti-troop unit...plasma cannons, heavy bolters, bolter sponsons and just let it go. I am going to run a few practice games but it seems like fun to run it that way. I have about a billion other ways of getting melta/anti-tank to where it needs to be in my current all comers list...so just an idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Legionnare Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Basically lets have a discussion about the whic stormraven builds are peoples favourites and the various advantages and disadvantages associated with them. the 2 basic builds seem to be the Lascannon, multi melta which can fry a tank pretty well each trun, 2 tanks if your lucky. Or the TML, hurricane bolter, AC build that personally appeals to me for its ability to move 12 pop a transport with BSM's and then absolutely shred a unit inside with defensive weapon saturaion, it is of course more expensive and that is a serious downside for an AV12 skimmer. the other build I've thought of running is a bit of a strange one, Multi melta, PC: the idea is to keep moving 12 a turn and either blast a tank or transport with BSM's or the multi melta before hittin whatever gets out or another squad with tasty plasma, seems to suffer from a case of all rounder syndrome to me but it is the same pts as the dedicated anti tank SR and arguably as effective. so people what are your builds and thoughts? When you shoot, aren't you supposed to shoot all weapons that you are going to for that unit at once? Even with PotMS letting you fire one more than you would be able to you should have to fire it at the same time. Wouldn't this mean you can't unload on the contents of a transport once you pop it open? Also, I love the multi-melta, Lascannon combo with some extra armor. Thinking of switching the lascannon out for Plasma Cannon, give that a shot. It's a decent gunship, but it really shines in being able to zoom 12 inches and then pop out DC and a Furioso dread which then tear into respective squads of enemies. Edit: ACK!!! I completely missed that James already brought this up. Sorry. x.x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingareth Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 What's with people's infatuation with Plasma Cannons? They're a trash gun. You're paying for AP2- which is hardly relavent as there is so much in the way of cover these days. The 3" blast means you'll be lucky to pick up 2 models- half as many hits as you can expect from an Assault Cannon. 36" range is awkward, because it doesn't compliment any of the other weapons. Multi-Melta works great with everything, and the Lascannon compliments the Missiles, and the Assault Cannon compliments the transport capacity and the hurricane bolters. And S7 means you'll be struggling against tanks with only 1 shot, especially a blast weapon. Lascannon has the strength to insta-kill dudes and pen tanks, while the Assault Cannon can still pen tanks, torrent special weapons, and is great against things in cover. I see the Plasma Cannon as the underpowered half-way house between the two outstanding choices- Lascannon if you're looking at holding back for a turn or two, and Assault Cannon if you plan on shoving it down your opponent's throat and watching it explode on turn 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HB66 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I dont believe it is an unwarranted "inatuation" with PC's - PC's are great at taking down those troublesome units like incubi, and chaos termies - they can take out anything with armor 12 or below with relative ease. I dont think they are the be all end all, but they are a great all around weapon, - decent range, - high AP killing power - and regardless what people say the small blast template is totally underestimated, i have seen it work time and time again. So thats just my defense of the PC on a SR build, its just a great all rounder weapon and twin-linked just means your definetley gonna get some kills or vehicle explosions. HB66 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor_Lensoven Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I dont believe it is an unwarranted "inatuation" with PC's - PC's are great at taking down those troublesome units like incubi, and chaos termies - they can take out anything with armor 12 or below with relative ease. I dont think they are the be all end all, but they are a great all around weapon, - decent range, - high AP killing power - and regardless what people say the small blast template is totally underestimated, i have seen it work time and time again. So thats just my defense of the PC on a SR build, its just a great all rounder weapon and twin-linked just means your definetley gonna get some kills or vehicle explosions. HB66 it's been a long time since i've played or read the rules for small templates, but doesn't that make it scatter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HB66 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Its been along time for me as well to, in terms of the exact rules........ - but i dont believe that small blast template weapons scatter, i could be wrong though I think it is only "ordance" or "guess" range weapons......which if that is the fact then the imperial mortar does indeed scatter. sense the PC is a "direct" range weapon and has to roll to hit and wound, i dont think it scatters. HB66 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Its been along time for me as well to, in terms of the exact rules........ - but i dont believe that small blast template weapons scatter, i could be wrong though I think it is only "ordance" or "guess" range weapons......which if that is the fact then the imperial mortar does indeed scatter. sense the PC is a "direct" range weapon and has to roll to hit and wound, i dont think it scatters. HB66 All blast weapons scatter. You don't roll to hit, just scatter (remember to subtract firer's BS from the scatter) Twin linked helps, you can reroll the scatter if it stinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HB66 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Cool, Thanks for the rule clarification. - I would still use Twin linked PC's on the SR build, still an awesome all around killy weapon, cant wait to get mine and test it out On another note, what is the thought of the twinlinked HB's up front? i see most people like the TLMM's, I want to get as many armor save roles as possible and i guess am leaning more towards the "troop killer" gunship than the anti tank gunship. HB66 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor_Lensoven Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Its been along time for me as well to, in terms of the exact rules........ - but i dont believe that small blast template weapons scatter, i could be wrong though I think it is only "ordance" or "guess" range weapons......which if that is the fact then the imperial mortar does indeed scatter. sense the PC is a "direct" range weapon and has to roll to hit and wound, i dont think it scatters. HB66 All blast weapons scatter. You don't roll to hit, just scatter (remember to subtract firer's BS from the scatter) Twin linked helps, you can reroll the scatter if it stinks. thats what i thought. i remember my last game my plasma cannon screwed me over by scattering off target almost every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 You cannot shoot a transport with one system, then shoot the units who disembark on it's destruction with another system on the same vehicle. All shooting is resolved simultaneously from the same vehicle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korloth Darkwolf Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I'm running TLAC, TLMM, EA (with all options available should I need to do a swap). My local group doesn't have much in the way of armour so don't feel the need to run the TLLC or TLPC. My aim is to soften up the targets a little for the contents of the Storm Ravens to assault so its aimed at anti-infantry with the Blood Missiles used for anti armour as needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 personally I find the plasma cannon desirable here because cost is not an issue, it is the exact same price as the AC and as an anti-squad weapon it operates better against any squad of 4 or more. after all if a unit is in cover the worst save it will get is 4+ aand the AC allows them to take 3+ and 2+ saves both of which are denied by the PC's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HB66 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Plus.... - dont the rules for blast weapons now state that even partial covers with the template count as hits??? - if so that makes them even better than 3rd edition rules which i was most familiar with, 3rd only counted fulls and you had to roll for partials if my memory is correct. - AC, 4 hits max..... - PC, you can have tons of hit if your shooting at any kind of horde, nids, guard, orks, or at least 2-4 if shooting at any basic marine, chaos, eldar or necron squad. - Now if AC were cheaper than the PC, oh yeah AC's definetley, but sense there the same price.....well PLASMA ON!!!!!!! - All around i would have to say im most impressed with the SR, and regardless of what your build is, it is one fearsome iron bird. HB66 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Legionnare Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 The only reason I considered trying the PC is because I face A LOT of MEQ in my play groups, about 3/5ths. I still think that the all around best build for versatility is the Multi-melta + Las cannon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezkh Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Playing a DOA army I'd rather face 3 TL assault cannons over one TL PLasma cannon. It's swings and roundabounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor_Lensoven Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Plus.... - dont the rules for blast weapons now state that even partial covers with the template count as hits??? - if so that makes them even better than 3rd edition rules which i was most familiar with, 3rd only counted fulls and you had to roll for partials if my memory is correct. - AC, 4 hits max..... - PC, you can have tons of hit if your shooting at any kind of horde, nids, guard, orks, or at least 2-4 if shooting at any basic marine, chaos, eldar or necron squad. - Now if AC were cheaper than the PC, oh yeah AC's definetley, but sense there the same price.....well PLASMA ON!!!!!!! - All around i would have to say im most impressed with the SR, and regardless of what your build is, it is one fearsome iron bird. HB66 what do you consider 'tons of hits'? even having all models in base contact you can only really get 3 good hits and maybe a partial. but that's with all the target models in base contact so realistically you'll get maybe 1 full and 2 partials 3 if you're lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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