Raven Builds

[SamaNagol]

No such thing as partial hits with the Blast template anymore

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

No such thing as partial hits with the Blast template anymore

ok thanks for the correction. as i said before it's been awhile. since i'm lazy and don't feel like looking it up does that mean 'partials' are now full hits or no hits?

[daboarder]

5 is not out of the question with the PC but even if its only 4 average it's still better than the AC if they are the same price as it is going to be denying armour saves and, crucially given new codeci FNP, far more reliably than rending

[Dingareth]

Do you all play 12 year olds? Who doesn't space their models out? It doesn't take up that much more room to put just over an inch between models, limiting small blasts to hitting more than 1 model. Against non-marine models, a Plasma Cannon and Assault Cannon will be wounding on 2's, and they'll be saving on 4's. Plasma Cannon gets you 1-2 hits regularly with that one special time it gets you 4, whereas the Assault Cannon is accurate enough to get 3-4 every time.

[daboarder]

In my experience it isn't as simple as people claimto just "spread out" Here are 4 common scenarios that preclude spacing out.

 

1) Deepstriking and forgoing run to shoot meltaguns at a tank

2) bailout of wreck or deployed in explosion crater leads to forced bunching due to placement restraints.

3) bunching a unit behind LOS blocking cover to provide a smaller profile and avoid incoming fire instead of relying on 4+ cover.

4) facing opponents with board saturation such as tyranids and therefore bunching to allow units to better support each other.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

In my experience it isn't as simple as people claimto just "spread out" Here are 4 common scenarios that preclude spacing out.

 

1) Deepstriking and forgoing run to shoot meltaguns at a tank

2) bailout of wreck or deployed in explosion crater leads to forced bunching due to placement restraints.

3) bunching a unit behind LOS blocking cover to provide a smaller profile and avoid incoming fire instead of relying on 4+ cover.

4) facing opponents with board saturation such as tyrannies and therefore bunching to allow units to better support each other.

well if you know that your opponent has template weapons that don't have to worry about cover bunching up into cover/blocking LOS isn't smart...so back to the 12yr old argument...

 

but then again that scenario depends on a few things, but any way i'd rather AC over PC

[Zid]

TLMM/TLLC/EA is my build every game. The reason I don't take the PC or AC is because... whats inside the raven kills troops better than either of those :D I'm more concerned popping stupid chimeras and valks than killing a few marines or orcs

[Aeterni]

in 1750 points, i run 3 SR all with EA, PC, MM, Hurricane for a whopping 245 each. I take PC instead of LC or AC because of the ability to place a blast template. Yes, there could be instances where it only hits 1 guy but with the LC you are only ever going to get 1 hit max. I simply use the BSM if i need to pop armor and with 12 on the board it usually isnt a problem for me to pop tanks. That and my Dreads are capable of taking out armor as well. I tend not to overlap the rules and thus i use the SR mainly for transport and suppressing fire.

[SamaNagol]

As with my Razorbacks, TLAC are superior to TLLC at everything which isn't a monolith or a wave serpent (or insta-killing things with multiple wounds)

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I'm starting to like the twin linked multi-melta, twin linked assault cannon and Hurricane bolter sponsons. The melta is good versus heavy mech when you need to move flat-out and want to pop tanks. I understand why people like the plasma cannon but I find smart opponents tend to space their units mitigating it's potential. It is twin linked so you can reroll the scatter which is helpful. I'd rather have volume of shots to thin down the hordes plus in a pinch the assault cannon is better versus armor than the plasma cannon. The twin linked lascannon is nice for the constant ranged shot but I find myself rarely needing it for DoA packing lots of meltas. The Hurricane bolters are awesome versus hordes - you can pretty clear out a unit of gaunts or genestealers if they don't have the benefit of FNP.

 

G :D

[TheMouth]

Do you all play 12 year olds? Who doesn't space their models out? It doesn't take up that much more room to put just over an inch between models, limiting small blasts to hitting more than 1 model. Against non-marine models, a Plasma Cannon and Assault Cannon will be wounding on 2's, and they'll be saving on 4's. Plasma Cannon gets you 1-2 hits regularly with that one special time it gets you 4, whereas the Assault Cannon is accurate enough to get 3-4 every time.

 

 

age has nothing to do with this...even properly spaced a blast template can get 3-4 as well every time...location location location. :D

[HB66]

I guess its just coming down to the amount of troop killing vs armor killing that people want,

- it seems the AC and PC are two of the more popular builds.....

- for those of you that are taking the LC, arent the BSM enough??? i know strength 8 isnt the best, but if your packin multi melta all ready and you have the SR speed i dont see why the LC would be needed.

- the only time ive liked LC's is on a Land Raider, cause its survivability is better, and even then i knocked out more stuff with my Long Fangs then my Land Raider.....but thats just in my experience.

 

- LC can take out Termies, and Nobz in suits, and incubi, but its like using a nuke to take out a jeep. I guess i primarily like the PC's to take out those scary units guarding the other guys HQ......and thank god they got rid of that partial rule for template weapons, a hit is a hit

 

HB66

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I guess its just coming down to the amount of troop killing vs armor killing that people want,

- it seems the AC and PC are two of the more popular builds.....

- for those of you that are taking the LC, arent the BSM enough??? i know strength 8 isnt the best, but if your packin multi melta all ready and you have the SR speed i dont see why the LC would be needed.

- the only time ive liked LC's is on a Land Raider, cause its survivability is better, and even then i knocked out more stuff with my Long Fangs then my Land Raider.....but thats just in my experience.

 

- LC can take out Termies, and Nobz in suits, and incubi, but its like using a nuke to take out a jeep. I guess i primarily like the PC's to take out those scary units guarding the other guys HQ......and thank god they got rid of that partial rule for template weapons, a hit is a hit

 

HB66

...what's wrong with using a nuke to take out a jeep?

[daboarder]

inquisitor lenso, that 12 year old comment is increadibly rude towards people you've never met let alone played against, I give reasonable situations in which a player will bunch up and you remain insulting.....not cool bro.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

inquisitor lenso, that 12 year old comment is increadibly rude towards people you've never met let alone played against, I give reasonable situations in which a player will bunch up and you remain insulting.....not cool bro.

eh oh well. it was only aimed at kids so i don't rightly care much.

[Zid]

I guess its just coming down to the amount of troop killing vs armor killing that people want,

- it seems the AC and PC are two of the more popular builds.....

- for those of you that are taking the LC, arent the BSM enough??? i know strength 8 isnt the best, but if your packin multi melta all ready and you have the SR speed i dont see why the LC would be needed.

- the only time ive liked LC's is on a Land Raider, cause its survivability is better, and even then i knocked out more stuff with my Long Fangs then my Land Raider.....but thats just in my experience.

 

- LC can take out Termies, and Nobz in suits, and incubi, but its like using a nuke to take out a jeep. I guess i primarily like the PC's to take out those scary units guarding the other guys HQ......and thank god they got rid of that partial rule for template weapons, a hit is a hit

 

HB66

 

Reason I like the LC is because its twin linked. I can move 12" and still blow the hell out of 2 tanks pretty consistantly. I like BSM's, but I hate that if I miss its a wasted shot ;) Plus, once I unload my cargo, I can move 6" and blast 2 tanks at various ranges! I do see the benefits of the AC build, it just never works for me however

[shatter]

I'm starting to like the twin linked multi-melta, twin linked assault cannon and Hurricane bolter sponsons. The melta is good versus heavy mech when you need to move flat-out and want to pop tanks. I understand why people like the plasma cannon but I find smart opponents tend to space their units mitigating it's potential. It is twin linked so you can reroll the scatter which is helpful. I'd rather have volume of shots to thin down the hordes plus in a pinch the assault cannon is better versus armor than the plasma cannon. The twin linked lascannon is nice for the constant ranged shot but I find myself rarely needing it for DoA packing lots of meltas. The Hurricane bolters are awesome versus hordes - you can pretty clear out a unit of gaunts or genestealers if they don't have the benefit of FNP.

 

G ;)

 

+1

 

'Tis what I used recently.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I guess its just coming down to the amount of troop killing vs armor killing that people want,

- it seems the AC and PC are two of the more popular builds.....

- for those of you that are taking the LC, arent the BSM enough??? i know strength 8 isnt the best, but if your packin multi melta all ready and you have the SR speed i dont see why the LC would be needed.

- the only time ive liked LC's is on a Land Raider, cause its survivability is better, and even then i knocked out more stuff with my Long Fangs then my Land Raider.....but thats just in my experience.

 

- LC can take out Termies, and Nobz in suits, and incubi, but its like using a nuke to take out a jeep. I guess i primarily like the PC's to take out those scary units guarding the other guys HQ......and thank god they got rid of that partial rule for template weapons, a hit is a hit

 

HB66

 

Reason I like the LC is because its twin linked. I can move 12" and still blow the hell out of 2 tanks pretty consistantly. I like BSM's, but I hate that if I miss its a wasted shot :P Plus, once I unload my cargo, I can move 6" and blast 2 tanks at various ranges! I do see the benefits of the AC build, it just never works for me however

umm...i'm pretty sure...like 100% sure that a single unit can only target a single unit with any of it's guns...so if you're shooting 2 tanks at various ranges in one turn i'm pretty sure you're cheating.

[daboarder]

inquisitor lenso, that 12 year old comment is increadibly rude towards people you've never met let alone played against, I give reasonable situations in which a player will bunch up and you remain insulting.....not cool bro.

eh oh well. it was only aimed at kids so i don't rightly care much.

 

thats cool I was joking....humour doesnt translate into text that well

 

edit: @ above: depends on what he means, if he's blasting one tank with the TLLC and another with the TLMM using PotMS thats fine, says so right there in spirits rules

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

inquisitor lenso, that 12 year old comment is increadibly rude towards people you've never met let alone played against, I give reasonable situations in which a player will bunch up and you remain insulting.....not cool bro.

eh oh well. it was only aimed at kids so i don't rightly care much.

 

thats cool I was joking....humour doesnt translate into text that well

 

edit: @ above: depends on what he means, if he's blasting one tank with the TLLC and another with the TLMM using PotMS thats fine, says so right there in spirits rules

lol ok, some people get real defensive when it comes to kids.

 

and whoops maybe i should play a game this edition before opening my big mouth again :P

[HB66]

Zid -

- with twin linked, you can only shoot at one target, you jusst get to re roll your to hit.

Inquisitor -

- there is absolutley nothing wrong with using a nuke to take out a jeep, in fact its quite fun :devil:

- im just looking at getting the most bang for the buck, even though PC and LC cost the same.

 

- I do think a HB, LC's, and hurricane bolter with extra armor build would be really good on a SR as well, then you have plenty of armor and troop killing power.

 

HB66

[Isryion]

Zid -

 

 

- I do think a HB, LC's, and hurricane bolter with extra armor build would be really good on a SR as well, then you have plenty of armor and troop killing power.

 

HB66

 

Just keep in mind that, as Sama pointed out, the TLAC are actually better at killing armor than TLLC and most troop types (even if you don't rend with the AC, you're still forcing more saves). You lose instakill and range, but as many have mentioned, chances are you aren't really going to be using the extra range anyway.

 

One question I have, especially those of you with experience, is if you've ever emptied the missiles on a particularly juicy target of infantry, like devs or long fangs? I'd think that it'd be tough to get this opportunity since you couldn't move more than 6, but it seems to me that firing off all 4 missiles, 4 TLAC shots, and a TLMM, should whittle that squad down quite a bit, even with cover or armor saves. Maybe there are better targets out there, but seems this might be worthwhile if you can get the shot, like maybe if you're going first and and get in range right away.

[HB66]

You can only shoot at one target at a time, and can you fire all 4 BSM's at once?

- and how are you getting 4 Las Cannon shots?

- by my math you have one twin linked shot and one missle shot per turn, but im not sure how the rules go on "one shot missles"

 

- i am assuming its the same as the IG Manticore, i dont think it can fire all 4 missles at once, but im not sure.

 

HB66

[JamesI]

You can only shoot at one target at a time, and can you fire all 4 BSM's at once?

- and how are you getting 4 Las Cannon shots?

- by my math you have one twin linked shot and one missle shot per turn, but im not sure how the rules go on "one shot missles"

 

- i am assuming its the same as the IG Manticore, i dont think it can fire all 4 missles at once, but im not sure.

 

HB66

Each missile is its own weapons system. if the raven moves 6 inches or less, it can fire all 4 missiles as well as the turret, hull mounted weapon and hurricane bolters (if you bought them)

[Isryion]

You can only shoot at one target at a time, and can you fire all 4 BSM's at once?

- and how are you getting 4 Las Cannon shots?

- by my math you have one twin linked shot and one missle shot per turn, but im not sure how the rules go on "one shot missles"

 

- i am assuming its the same as the IG Manticore, i dont think it can fire all 4 missles at once, but im not sure.

 

HB66

 

I'm not getting 4 TLLC shots I'm getting 4 TLAC (Assault Cannon) shots. So, 4 TLAC shots +4 BSM shots +1 Twin Linked Multimelta. In my example I was referring to shooting at one target, though technically, I could shoot at two with a Stromraven's PotMS. 4 TLAC shots are mathematically better than 1 TLLC shot at taking down most armor (post and numbers were run in another thread).