Grendelsbane Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I was watching a video on youtube and the guy talked about a strategy of having a dread follow your tactical marines. Now...my understanding is that a dread being a vehicle needs 50% cover to get the cover save. I didn't think that marines would give cover to such a dread no matter how many were in front. The thing is too tall and can easily be seen IMO. So am I right that the dread would not get cover? Or am I totally wrong and I should be marching my dread right behind some mea.....er....true warriors of the Emperor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shatter Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 50% If LOS from a weapon doesn't (ignoring artificial cover) see 50%, it gets cover, no matter what's occluding it. Also, it's 50% of actual silhouette, not 50% of height. A dread's top half most defiantly has a greater silhouette area. I find it difficult to believe a tactical squad could reliably give one cover. (I tried with AoBR tacticals to make it work) In the specific youtube example, I cannot say as I can't see their weapon LOS... nor can I see if his models are somehow a tiny bit taller as this would do it. +5-10% of the above models height would work out. Assault squad type figures modeled as tall as possible could do it quite easily. If he's done this deliberately for the purpose, I'd smirk at him and gossip about him behind his back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Assault squad type figures modeled as tall as possible could do it quite easily. If he's done this deliberately for the purpose, I'd smirk at him and gossip about him behind his back. This is why all my squad sgts have huge backpack banners! Think bigger than the chapter standard. Just kidding :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Priest Haelaeif Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Nononono, every marine has a huge back banner, not just sergeants! And rhinos have those massive flags, you know? Seriously though, if someone modelled their tacticals to be larger just for that purpose, how lame is that? I would just ask him whether he thinks he cannot win by other means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 As has been mentioned, you can do it with Assault Marines but not with Tacs unless modeled for advantage. e.g. Tyranid players can give their Flyrants a cover save using Gargoyles, due to the height of normal flying bases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 It can also be done with bikers and Terminators. You have to really pack the bikers in, though, and then they're template bait... It's also important to realize that any sort of elevated firing platform (a hill, a ruin, turret weapons) will give an improved LOS to the Dread's hull, and negate the LOS-based cover save from intervening infantry unless they're right on top of the Dread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 My marines commonly give my rhinos cover saves (especially when they disembark). I do usually use the 2nd edition hulls, but they pack in enough to cover the modern one too. Dreadnoughts though...fugedaboudit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bystrom Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Aren't stuff like banners ignored when checking LOS? I'll have to check when I get hope (if I remember). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Aren't stuff like banners ignored when checking LOS? I'll have to check when I get hope (if I remember). You make that sound awfully depressing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Haha, indeed. Aren't stuff like banners ignored when checking LOS?Yes and no. Banners and stuff are ignored when checking LOS to the target model, ie the target model's banners and stuff; however, any intervening banners and stuff are not ignored. Sure, some players (read: ^_^ ) can model their banners and stuff to be huge, but then they'd never get an opponent and any halfwit TO would deny the use of those models. Justice is served. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bystrom Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Aren't stuff like banners ignored when checking LOS? I'll have to check when I get hope (if I remember). You make that sound awfully depressing :D DOH! Must be my subconscious telling me I need some sleep :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphz Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I'd like to apply common decency when it comes to true LOS and non-standard models. As my whole army is going to be true-scale marines (ie quite abit taller) I intend to be more lenient on things getting cover behind my large marines. On the flip side I might hope my opponent is generous on giving me cover, but I hardly expect it as I chose to model them this way. But never will I try gain advantage from it. Basically, if you're using non-standard models, you should try account for what would happen if they were standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roesor Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I did with with a 8 man terminator squad, 4 in front and 4 behind. The terminators grant the dread a 50% cover, while the dread gives them a cover save because the other half is obscured behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezkh Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I did with with a 8 man terminator squad, 4 in front and 4 behind. The terminators grant the dread a 50% cover, while the dread gives them a cover save because the other half is obscured behind it. Can't see how that would be 'legal' in light of the new rulebook FAQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roesor Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 It was a while ago, and I decided that even if it was legal, I would never do it again. But how is it not legal anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 The BRB FAQ says it's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparhawk Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I can't find the reference in the FAQ that you are referring to. I'm not doubting your comments I just think my search-fu is weak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturm Moonwolf Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Q: Who gets the 4+ cover save for intervening models when two units are intermingled? (p21) A: The unit with the model closest to the enemy that is firing does not have a cover save. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roesor Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Fudgecakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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